10: Start With Why by Simon Sinek

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1. 00:00:00 Well, thank you for moving this.
2. 00:00:01 No problem.
3. 00:00:03 Makes my life a lot easier.
4. 00:00:04 My wife is going to a conference,
5. 00:00:07 and I didn't realize she was leaving at noon on Thursday,
6. 00:00:14 which would mean I wouldn't make our normal recording time
7. 00:00:17 since I'd be watching the girls,
8. 00:00:18 and I debated the babysitter thing,
9. 00:00:20 I debated a bunch of different things,
10. 00:00:22 but none of that, none of it worked out.
11. 00:00:24 It's like, okay, well, I think I can make Friday work,
12. 00:00:27 and then I had that whole rigmarole
13. 00:00:29 that I had caused with you.
14. 00:00:30 Thank you for moving it.
15. 00:00:33 No worries.
16. 00:00:35 So how's life in Mike's world?
17. 00:00:39 Good.
18. 00:00:41 Been really busy making the final push for the
19. 00:00:46 the email course that we're doing at Asian efficiency,
20. 00:00:50 but I finished editing the last video yesterday.
21. 00:00:52 Oh, nice.
22. 00:00:53 As I saw Tan had, he had a tweet about you being a beast
23. 00:00:57 and getting this thing out like eight days early
24. 00:00:59 or something like that.
25. 00:01:00 So.
26. 00:01:01 Yeah, it was our goal for this quarter.
27. 00:01:03 So I guess technically that's about eight days early,
28. 00:01:06 but not really that early.
29. 00:01:08 It's a lot of content on the topic of email,
30. 00:01:11 though it's almost seven hours worth of video altogether.
31. 00:01:14 Oh my gosh, that's hello email.
32. 00:01:17 Wow.
33. 00:01:17 So does that.
34. 00:01:18 Does it go through like how to write them
35. 00:01:22 and how to manage them and then all the big,
36. 00:01:24 like the normal apps?
37. 00:01:25 Like what is this not to add in intent for this to be a plug
38. 00:01:29 for Asian efficiency's email course,
39. 00:01:30 but now you have my curiosity.
40. 00:01:32 What's in this thing?
41. 00:01:33 Yeah.
42. 00:01:34 So basically what we did, the whole process
43. 00:01:37 behind this product was really, really interesting.
44. 00:01:39 And I learned a lot.
45. 00:01:40 We implemented the model from, I believe it's running lean.
46. 00:01:43 So it's a lean product development model where we first of all,
47. 00:01:47 just announced that we're going to build this product
48. 00:01:50 on the topic of email.
49. 00:01:51 What are your biggest pain points with email and people who filled out
50. 00:01:54 the survey we contacted to talk about their specific problems,
51. 00:01:58 zacted interviews with everybody, really articulated very well
52. 00:02:01 where they were experiencing problems with their email.
53. 00:02:05 And then we built basically custom solutions.
54. 00:02:07 And as we were doing that, we realized that all this stuff tied
55. 00:02:10 together into a very comprehensive solution
56. 00:02:12 on the correct way to handle email, which is a huge problem.
57. 00:02:18 I mean, some of the research that we did identified that,
58. 00:02:20 according to the Huffington Post last year,
59. 00:02:22 the average US worker spends 6.3 hours per day dealing with email,
60. 00:02:26 which I think we've actually talked about on this podcast too.
61. 00:02:29 So it's identifying all of the improper habits and mindsets
62. 00:02:34 that we have typically towards email,
63. 00:02:37 recognizing all of the triggers,
64. 00:02:41 all of the potential pain points,
65. 00:02:44 all the things that we could typically get tripped up on,
66. 00:02:47 and then crafting systems so that those things don't happen
67. 00:02:50 and we can avoid those things while still maintaining the peace
68. 00:02:54 of mind from knowing that everything that comes in,
69. 00:02:57 we've got a system in place that'll handle it all.
70. 00:02:59 Sounds like I need to go through this.
71. 00:03:03 Yeah, actually, I thought of you a couple of times when we were
72. 00:03:07 working on it based on our conversations,
73. 00:03:09 because I was working on it while we were recording those episodes
74. 00:03:12 and you're like, yeah, I'm working with this specific thing.
75. 00:03:14 And I'm like, ah, so is Tom in North Carolina.
76. 00:03:17 Nice.
77. 00:03:20 This might be on my list of go through relatively soon.
78. 00:03:23 Do you have a launch date on this?
79. 00:03:25 Like, is it coming out soon or has you got a while on it yet?
80. 00:03:27 October 11th is the official launch date.
81. 00:03:31 Right. And I'm comfortable giving that now because I just finished the video.
82. 00:03:35 So nice.
83. 00:03:38 Well, before we go too far down this, let's let's get through some of our followup.
84. 00:03:43 One thing I've been doing, and I just threw this on the followup list here,
85. 00:03:47 like, I don't know, a couple hours ago.
86. 00:03:50 But I kind of want to go back to the deep work episode that we did.
87. 00:03:55 And you and I had this conversation about
88. 00:03:58 the digital versus analog calendar, where I write out my day on paper and you do it digitally.
89. 00:04:06 And I figured out a way to do the digital thing a little bit here, Mike.
90. 00:04:11 And I'm pretty stoked about it, of course.
91. 00:04:14 I wanted the digital thing to work.
92. 00:04:18 But what I found was I can't, from a digital standpoint,
93. 00:04:22 I can't do the entire day in a digital calendar.
94. 00:04:26 I just have to plan when are those very specific deep work sessions going to happen.
95. 00:04:32 And they're usually like an hour and a half to two hours long.
96. 00:04:34 And I do those usually one early morning and one sometime in the afternoon,
97. 00:04:38 typically, but it doesn't always work out that way.
98. 00:04:40 But I managed to figure out that I can schedule those specific pieces
99. 00:04:44 digitally. And then I write out the rest of my day.
100. 00:04:48 On paper, and then I use that digital calendar piece to basically manage reminders
101. 00:04:54 is the way that ends up working, where it it triggers an alert on my phone and lets me know,
102. 00:04:59 Hey, dummy, go turn off everything else and go do your deep work session now.
103. 00:05:04 So it works out pretty well for me to just have that little ding to jar me out of
104. 00:05:10 whatever it is I'm working on.
105. 00:05:11 Usually something distracting I shouldn't be working on.
106. 00:05:13 But that's it's been an interesting thing that I've been kind of excited about
107. 00:05:17 and getting it to work finally from a digital standpoint.
108. 00:05:21 Sweet. Yeah. I mean, that's the, that's the idea behind those notifications and those
109. 00:05:26 things is like you've put it to a productive use, but most of the time,
110. 00:05:31 that's not usually the case.
111. 00:05:33 And we talked about that in the email course and we've talked about it on this
112. 00:05:35 podcast before, but the default is whatever application you install in your mobile
113. 00:05:40 device probably has pushed notifications turned on, which means that it's just
114. 00:05:43 going to notify you as soon as anything comes in without any discretion as to
115. 00:05:47 whether it's important.
116. 00:05:48 And then you get hundreds, if not thousands of these notifications throughout
117. 00:05:53 your day and they steal your attention away from the things that you should be
118. 00:05:57 working on. We're in your case.
119. 00:05:58 I really like your example where you've used those, you've used the power of a
120. 00:06:02 notification for good. Yes. Yes. Finally.
121. 00:06:05 I finally found the reason they exist.
122. 00:06:07 Nice. I want to know about your breakpoint thing.
123. 00:06:12 You were still working on.
124. 00:06:14 So for the listeners, Mike's been working on this process of gaining energy
125. 00:06:19 through very small time periods between longer, deep work sessions, I guess.
126. 00:06:27 And this is taken from the idea of between points in tennis.
127. 00:06:32 Am I, am I getting that right, Mike?
128. 00:06:34 Yeah.
129. 00:06:35 So with the ritual, what I've come to the realization is that it's really
130. 00:06:41 important for me when I have these breakpoints to implement something that I
131. 00:06:46 kind of picked up from when we read the Ryan Holiday book, The Obstacles, the
132. 00:06:51 Way where he talks about how things aren't positive or negative.
133. 00:06:54 They just are.
134. 00:06:55 And so one of the things that I've implemented is as I'm going in between
135. 00:06:59 these different rhythms and these different, usually it's different places
136. 00:07:01 throughout my workday, I will take a moment as I am packing up, walking to my
137. 00:07:07 car, whatever, and just think about what just happened.
138. 00:07:11 And then just let it go.
139. 00:07:14 So what happened?
140. 00:07:15 Did I get the videos done that I wanted to get done?
141. 00:07:17 If I did, you know, mini celebration and then on to the next thing, if I didn't
142. 00:07:21 get them done, don't beat myself up about it for the next two hours and think
143. 00:07:25 that I've had an unproductive day, just kind of hit the reset button there
144. 00:07:29 and then get ready for the next point.
145. 00:07:31 Okay.
146. 00:07:31 And because I've played tennis, like that really resonated with me because
147. 00:07:35 you can, when you're playing tennis, think about an easy shot that you missed
148. 00:07:39 for several points after that.
149. 00:07:41 And it's affecting your play on the very next points and you're missing other
150. 00:07:44 shots that you should be hitting because you're so focused on the one thing
151. 00:07:47 that you messed up on.
152. 00:07:48 So I noticed I was kind of doing that myself and I tried to be more intentional
153. 00:07:54 about evaluating what just went on saying, yeah, that was good.
154. 00:07:58 No, that wasn't.
155. 00:07:59 And then just letting it go.
156. 00:08:00 And then from there, moving on to the next thing.
157. 00:08:04 I think that's interesting because something I do and I haven't really thought
158. 00:08:07 about it until you started in on this breakpoint ritual that you're trying to
159. 00:08:12 put in place and something I do whenever I realize that I'm just going down a
160. 00:08:16 rabbit trail and I realize I'm being extremely unproductive or I didn't get
161. 00:08:20 something done that I wanted to.
162. 00:08:22 I often take a look at inside of Omni Focus.
163. 00:08:25 I've got a perspective that shows me the completed items that I already have
164. 00:08:29 done.
165. 00:08:30 And I find it sometimes helpful to just look through that list and say, okay,
166. 00:08:36 here's all the things I've been getting done on my projects.
167. 00:08:40 It could be today.
168. 00:08:41 It could be yesterday.
169. 00:08:42 It just kind of depends on when it is that I look at it.
170. 00:08:44 But just looking through that list to see here are the things that I've been
171. 00:08:50 accomplishing.
172. 00:08:50 Here are the ones that I've managed to complete.
173. 00:08:54 And then that helps me kind of get some energy and some motivation to keep
174. 00:08:57 keep cranking on on my guess.
175. 00:08:59 I don't know if that's similar, but it's something that I use to, like, if I'm
176. 00:09:04 find myself going down a hole, just looking at all the things that all the
177. 00:09:08 progress that I've made, because there's some, maybe it's a pride thing.
178. 00:09:11 I don't know, but there's some motivating, inspiring piece that can come
179. 00:09:15 from seeing all of the positive work that I have recently completed.
180. 00:09:19 Does that make any sense at all?
181. 00:09:21 Yeah, it's important to celebrate your successes, but you can't dwell on what
182. 00:09:26 you did in the past either.
183. 00:09:27 Right.
184. 00:09:27 So yeah, the completed perspective is really powerful.
185. 00:09:31 I actually just met a guy the other day who has been using Omni Focus for a
186. 00:09:35 while and really what got him to use Omni Focus was that completed perspective.
187. 00:09:39 That's interesting because he liked to see the things that he actually
188. 00:09:43 accomplished, not the things that he planned to do or wanted to do, but things
189. 00:09:47 that he actually did.
190. 00:09:48 Interesting.
191. 00:09:49 That's cool.
192. 00:09:50 Uh, kind of a little bit of a follow up from the last show that we did, uh,
193. 00:09:56 with Vernet Brown's book, Darren, greatly.
194. 00:09:58 Uh, we talked a little bit about how we're having those conversations with our
195. 00:10:03 kids and how we're changing a few things with them.
196. 00:10:06 Uh, the one piece that I had down to start trying to do is the, the concept
197. 00:10:11 of talking to my kids about, uh, you've made certain choices versus you are
198. 00:10:16 something.
199. 00:10:17 So you're a good kid, but you've made bad choices like that concept.
200. 00:10:21 And that's not a new thing.
201. 00:10:23 It's just something I've been changing in me because I've just never thought
202. 00:10:26 about it.
203. 00:10:26 Uh, there's, there's too many parenting methods out there, Mike.
204. 00:10:29 Uh, so there's, there's a lot of that out there, but I've kind of been intentional.
205. 00:10:34 Well, I'm not kind of been, I have been intentional about making that shift in
206. 00:10:38 my terminology.
207. 00:10:39 And I can't say that I've seen any, uh, drastic changes in my girls and how they
208. 00:10:44 respond to that.
209. 00:10:45 Uh, but I think your last follow up here is one that I've been doing as well
210. 00:10:52 with the facial expressions.
211. 00:10:53 And that on my end, I know that's been extremely helpful.
212. 00:10:56 Uh, I have been trying to be very intentional about this.
213. 00:11:00 I don't have quantifiable data that I can say, yes, I've made improvement here.
214. 00:11:04 But I believe that I have my good feeling is that I have just because I've been
215. 00:11:09 more aware of it.
216. 00:11:11 Uh, and I think that awareness is really the key thing I was looking for in that
217. 00:11:17 particular instance is just recognizing those opportunities rather than just
218. 00:11:22 letting them float right by.
219. 00:11:24 So I would chalk that up as a win because I noticed this even several times a day.
220. 00:11:29 So I consider that a successful outcome from during greatly.
221. 00:11:34 I know that on my end, whenever, whenever I do something like that, that, because
222. 00:11:41 it, it amazes me how much our kids can pick up just from facial expressions.
223. 00:11:46 It just blows my mind how much they can pick up just from looking at you.
224. 00:11:50 And I love seeing the excitement on my girls's faces whenever I see them and
225. 00:11:58 just give them a quick smile.
226. 00:12:00 Like you would think that's not a big deal, but there's something about that
227. 00:12:05 that just makes their whole day.
228. 00:12:06 And I like being the dad who makes, who makes the whole day.
229. 00:12:11 I like that.
230. 00:12:12 Right.
231. 00:12:13 Yeah, me too.
232. 00:12:16 So let's transition into today's book and this is one that you picked out.
233. 00:12:21 So I'll let you introduce it.
234. 00:12:23 All right.
235. 00:12:25 I didn't, I feel kind of bad.
236. 00:12:28 I mean, whenever you say that you have, you pick this book, you have like these
237. 00:12:31 very eloquent explanations and deep philosophical reasons for picking books.
238. 00:12:35 This one is just like, I heard this one's good.
239. 00:12:37 No, I read, I read leaders eat last by Simon Cinek.
240. 00:12:41 Actually, I listened to it.
241. 00:12:42 I think it was the first book I ever got on Audible.
242. 00:12:46 And I really liked it.
243. 00:12:47 And I've been told by a couple of people that start with why is even better.
244. 00:12:52 So that was my rationale for, for picking it.
245. 00:12:55 And yeah, I really liked it.
246. 00:12:57 I'm sure we'll get into our ratings and things at the end, but it didn't
247. 00:13:01 disappoint from my perspective.
248. 00:13:03 The nice thing is that this one was on my list as well.
249. 00:13:06 Has been for a long time.
250. 00:13:07 I couldn't tell you why.
251. 00:13:09 I just knew that it was on my list.
252. 00:13:12 This is something I'm trying to do, Mike.
253. 00:13:14 I, whenever I get these ideas for books to read, I'm trying to get to a point
254. 00:13:18 where I'm writing down like where I heard about it and why I wrote it down so
255. 00:13:23 that whenever I'm trying to determine which book comes next, I can look through
256. 00:13:28 some of those notes and know, okay, this is one I had an interest in because I was
257. 00:13:32 reading this one and I really liked that one.
258. 00:13:34 So let's do this one.
259. 00:13:35 Anyway, long story short, I'm trying to get better about that just because I don't
260. 00:13:39 always remember my rationale behind some.
261. 00:13:42 And I am with you on.
262. 00:13:44 It doesn't have to be some waxed philosophical reason for picking a book.
263. 00:13:50 You can pick it just because it sounds cool.
264. 00:13:52 I will say that Simon started off on the wrong foot with me though, because
265. 00:14:00 we still need to do this show on how to read a book.
266. 00:14:03 I do this book index, my own personal book index at the back of a book.
267. 00:14:08 And if you look at the back of start with why there's no blank pages, this is the
268. 00:14:14 first book I've ever seen that doesn't have blank pages at the back of it.
269. 00:14:18 Every book has like at least one or two back there.
270. 00:14:22 This one has none.
271. 00:14:23 It's like, where am I supposed to put my index?
272. 00:14:25 That's where I always go.
273. 00:14:26 So it was not.
274. 00:14:29 I darn near just started writing right on top of the existing index just because
275. 00:14:35 I got frustrated with it.
276. 00:14:37 Yeah, I didn't even think about that, but yeah, you're right.
277. 00:14:42 There's there's not a whole lot of room on the back of this.
278. 00:14:44 No, and it's a book.
279. 00:14:46 So it's not a big deal.
280. 00:14:47 It's just like, what?
281. 00:14:49 Come on.
282. 00:14:49 Where am I supposed to do this?
283. 00:14:50 So anyway, before I even started reading it, I was like a little frustrated with it
284. 00:14:56 just because of that terrible reasoning.
285. 00:15:01 I know.
286. 00:15:02 Not terrible reasoning, but I don't know how we can avoid that in the future.
287. 00:15:06 So there's no systemic solution to this problem.
288. 00:15:09 No, none whatsoever.
289. 00:15:10 Well, regarding the content of the book, the very first thing he talks about at the
290. 00:15:20 very beginning really grabbed me.
291. 00:15:22 So I had a different first impression, but that's because I started at the front, not the back.
292. 00:15:27 Yep.
293. 00:15:27 Yep.
294. 00:15:28 That's probably the best way to do it is don't start at the end, start at the beginning.
295. 00:15:33 My mom used to do that.
296. 00:15:34 My mom used to always go to the end of a book and she'd read the last chapter.
297. 00:15:36 And then she'd go back and read the whole thing.
298. 00:15:38 Like a what?
299. 00:15:40 I don't understand that people who read fiction sometimes do this.
300. 00:15:43 I'm not.
301. 00:15:44 Don't jump on me over this fiction readers, but there there's a group of people that
302. 00:15:49 like to read the last chapter and then they go read the rest of the book.
303. 00:15:52 To me, that's just bonkers.
304. 00:15:53 I don't understand why you would ever do that.
305. 00:15:55 But anyway, I digress.
306. 00:15:57 That's there's a group of people who do that and I completely think it's illogical.
307. 00:16:01 Yeah, I don't I don't understand that that either, but I've heard of people doing that.
308. 00:16:06 So I know it's I know it's not unheard of.
309. 00:16:08 But yeah, I thought that he started this book really strong.
310. 00:16:13 In fact, there's a quote right at the beginning that I wrote down.
311. 00:16:15 He said, there are only two ways to influence human behavior.
312. 00:16:18 You can manipulate it or you can inspire it.
313. 00:16:21 And then he spent quite a bit of time talking about the difference between manipulation
314. 00:16:27 and inspiration, which is a very important.
315. 00:16:32 Distinction from the perspective of not just finding your your personal why, but really,
316. 00:16:38 the whole book is kind of written from the perspective of if you're leading an organization
317. 00:16:44 or you're leading a company or a business like this is why you want to start with your why.
318. 00:16:50 And so I thought that was really, really cool and just kind of set the tone right from the beginning.
319. 00:16:55 And there's a bunch of different manipulations that he lists here.
320. 00:17:00 There were six of them, I believe, that I'll run through real quick.
321. 00:17:03 And having him go through these and point out like examples, I can totally see how people use these all the time.
322. 00:17:12 Number one was price.
323. 00:17:14 So anything that you see on sale, like that's a price manipulation.
324. 00:17:19 Promotions would kind of fall into that category.
325. 00:17:22 Also a fear.
326. 00:17:23 He used a quote, which I have actually heard before, but I really liked it said,
327. 00:17:29 no one ever got fired for hiring IBM.
328. 00:17:31 And then number four was aspirations.
329. 00:17:36 Number five was peer pressure.
330. 00:17:38 And then number six was novelty or innovation.
331. 00:17:41 And I've been involved in different businesses long enough that I've seen
332. 00:17:47 these emphasize from a business perspective, particularly a marketing perspective
333. 00:17:52 for a long time and even encouraged to a certain degree.
334. 00:17:56 And basically what he's saying from the very beginning of the book is all of that stuff is wrong.
335. 00:18:01 It might help you get a sale, but it's not going to help you in the long term
336. 00:18:04 by getting you a fan that's actually going to be the type of customer that you want.
337. 00:18:10 These are all going to be transaction based and you may get people who will buy your thing,
338. 00:18:15 but then they're going to be the ones who spend 50 bucks and then you spend
339. 00:18:19 countless hours trying to support them and convince them that they should buy the next thing.
340. 00:18:26 So it's cyclical too, which is really kind of dangerous from an organizational perspective.
341. 00:18:31 You don't want to have to continue to work to maintain.
342. 00:18:35 You can't really build anything that way.
343. 00:18:37 That way you need to inspire people by, like you said, starting with the Y.
344. 00:18:42 So I thought that was really, really cool.
345. 00:18:45 Yeah, I totally agree because I used to work for a marketing company and it was a virtual company.
346. 00:18:50 So it was a different experience, but we always referred to it as a race to the bottom.
347. 00:18:56 Like who can get the price the lowest and who can have the most promotions and
348. 00:18:59 you would add features to certain things just to have something to talk about.
349. 00:19:05 And it's very hard to get loyal customers doing that.
350. 00:19:10 And the short term gains are awesome.
351. 00:19:13 You know, that's the manipulation side of things that we're talking about.
352. 00:19:16 But it's the companies who and this is the main premise of the whole book,
353. 00:19:21 you know, get your wife figured out and then let everything, let that why permeate through
354. 00:19:25 everything you do.
355. 00:19:26 You know, that's if you want to sum up the whole book very quickly, there you go.
356. 00:19:30 But if you focus on the long term mission of the company, don't let finances and everything
357. 00:19:37 dictate how things go.
358. 00:19:39 I mean, you have to pay attention to shareholders and you have to pay attention to all of that stuff
359. 00:19:42 to a point, but don't let that be the part that drives your end product.
360. 00:19:48 Let the, this is what he's getting at is let the Y drive and inspire people to do business with you.
361. 00:19:54 And this is, this is one of the things that kind of drove me a little bit baddie with,
362. 00:19:58 with the book, but I loved it at the same time as he praises Apple again and again and again and again and again.
363. 00:20:07 Like he just, he talks about Apple a ton.
364. 00:20:09 And it was to the point that I had to stop and I went and I looked up,
365. 00:20:13 I went and looked up the, the copyright of when did, when did he write this?
366. 00:20:18 Because I really wanted to know where, where was everything at?
367. 00:20:23 And whenever this was, when he was writing this, like did was Steve Jobs still around?
368. 00:20:28 Like what?
369. 00:20:29 Anyway, it was written in 2009.
370. 00:20:31 So you kind of have to keep in mind where Apple was at that point.
371. 00:20:36 And you know, for some of us who are big into Apple stuff, you can start to see potential breakdowns
372. 00:20:42 in the company between the point when this book was written.
373. 00:20:45 And now I think you really have to read between the lines to get there, I think, but
374. 00:20:51 he loves, loves, loves, loves talking about Apple and singing their praises.
375. 00:20:56 And I really wanted him to use some different examples, but that anyway, what I'm getting at
376. 00:21:02 there is Apple does a very good job of sharing their why and their purpose as a company and then
377. 00:21:11 using their why as something to inspire people to go and use their products to do something with
378. 00:21:17 them. And that's why a lot of us get really big into Apple products and buy a lot of them
379. 00:21:21 is because we've bought in hard on their why because their why resonates with our personal why.
380. 00:21:26 There's a lot of why and what I just said there.
381. 00:21:28 But if you can follow me there is we resonate with what the company is trying to do on a
382. 00:21:34 deeper level than just cost and product, if you can catch the difference between all of that.
383. 00:21:40 Yeah, exactly. And I mean, I'm an admittedly Apple fanboy, so I was completely okay with that.
384. 00:21:47 But I actually thought that was a really good example because he talks about some of the stuff
385. 00:21:51 that Apple has done that really illustrates that they do start with the why. Like you mentioned
386. 00:21:56 the iconic 1984 ad with the like everybody's, there's like all these guys in business suits and
387. 00:22:03 they're all like grayed out in the background and you see this like woman in orange shorts and a
388. 00:22:08 white t-shirt like running towards the other direction with a sledgehammer.
389. 00:22:13 You know, and another ad that I thought of kind of in the same vein is the one that I think Steve
390. 00:22:20 Jobs actually narrated it. Here's to the crazy ones, which I actually, like I said, admittedly an
391. 00:22:26 Apple fanboy. I've got that rained in hanging on my wall right in front of me. But yeah,
392. 00:22:32 there there are great example and I guess the Steve Jobs personality is a great example of the
393. 00:22:41 starting with the the why and not really caring about the what or the how almost to the to the
394. 00:22:46 point where it's detrimental to a certain point. I mean, we can kind of see how the rest of the
395. 00:22:51 story plays out now because it's 2016 and Apple is kind of here and there be the most valuable
396. 00:22:58 company in the world. So we can say that yeah, this stuff kind of kind of works. And I guess
397. 00:23:03 that's why I give it more credibility. If it was like, I know, fill in the blank with whatever the
398. 00:23:09 current hotness is, you know, I guess I might have had the same same reaction. But I guess I really
399. 00:23:16 resonated with that Apple example because I know the historical context. I know what all happened
400. 00:23:20 because I've been following the company for a while. But also I can see the fruit of that approach.
401. 00:23:26 Another another story he uses in there though, because he does use several different stories. He
402. 00:23:32 does mention Apple quite a bit. But I really liked the one about Sam Walton, the guy who found Walmart.
403. 00:23:39 Oh, right. Yeah, I really like that company. Yeah, that's kind of the inverse side of the coin
404. 00:23:44 because he talks about how Walmart has kind of lost their why, whereas Sam Walton was getting paid
405. 00:23:50 $350,000 a year, which is nothing for CEO of a company that's worth that much money. And he always
406. 00:23:59 would come in to work on Saturdays because he wanted to do what he was asking his employees to do
407. 00:24:04 and work on the weekends. People would ask him like, why don't you drive a fancy car instead of
408. 00:24:09 that pickup truck? And he's like, what am I going to pull my dogs around in a Rolls Royce? Like he
409. 00:24:13 just seems like a very down to earth type of guy, his whole why for developing the Walmart chain.
410. 00:24:18 It talks about like he wanted to bring the centers to small town America so that people didn't have
411. 00:24:25 to go to the city in order to earn a sustainable living, which is a really noble goal. And then
412. 00:24:30 he even uses the example of like whoever was in charge when he wrote the book. I don't think it
413. 00:24:36 was a direct successor, but it was two or three successors down the line. Like he's pulling in
414. 00:24:40 six million a year almost. You know, so it's very clear indication that they've lost the why.
415. 00:24:46 And I guess really coming back to that whole idea of, you know, start with why there's a really
416. 00:24:50 clear concept that he illustrates in this book, which is really important. And that's that golden
417. 00:24:56 circle. And I did not put this in the notes. I don't know why I didn't because this is a really
418. 00:25:00 key concept. Yeah, he talks about it. But if you were. Yeah, and I like how he keeps elaborating
419. 00:25:06 on it too. Like he starts off with these three circles and why's in the middle and then outside
420. 00:25:10 of that, the next ring out from the bullseye center is the the how and then on the outside is the what
421. 00:25:16 he talks about how a lot of businesses will focus on the what then they'll figure out the how and
422. 00:25:21 then they'll figure out the why. But the successful ones are the ones that start with the why and they
423. 00:25:25 work from the inside out instead of the outside in. But then he expounds on that and he applies
424. 00:25:30 like a 3D model to it and he shows that there's different different things underneath it and
425. 00:25:34 things like that. So it's not just like re reiterating the same concept over and over and over and over
426. 00:25:39 and over again throughout the book, which obviously he does. I mean, don't get me wrong. But he really
427. 00:25:44 expounds on it and he layers it, which I thought was was really cool as well.
428. 00:25:48 It really makes a lot of sense whenever you look at this golden circle, simply because
429. 00:25:55 so much of what businesses do and I run into this all the time, you know, building websites and
430. 00:26:01 finding clients. I'll talk to them and nine times out of 10 whenever I go in and I have a
431. 00:26:07 conversation with them. Usually what I need to know is, you know, if I'm going to build a website for
432. 00:26:11 you and you're a small business, I need to know why your business exists. Like I need to understand
433. 00:26:18 what the purpose of the business is so that we can make the website resonate and feel that purpose.
434. 00:26:26 Like that's that's a lot of what I try to do. But so many times I go in and I ask, you know,
435. 00:26:31 why does your business exist? Which is number one, a question they don't really expect from a web
436. 00:26:36 developer. It doesn't really come across as something you should plan for whenever you're
437. 00:26:40 going to meet with me. But whenever I ask that question, nine times out of 10, they start telling
438. 00:26:45 me what their product is and why they think it's better than their competitors. But that doesn't
439. 00:26:51 tell me why the business is in existence. Like it doesn't give me anything to run with. It's like,
440. 00:26:57 oh, great, you make axles for trucks. Cool. So why do you do that? Well, people need axles for
441. 00:27:02 trucks. Well, but why do you do that? That doesn't make sense. So it's interesting that if I come in
442. 00:27:12 and I simply say that I have a passion for helping people's dreams come to a reality
443. 00:27:18 through their websites and helping them portray that. Well, that's one way of selling myself to them.
444. 00:27:24 But they can rarely reciprocate that and explain to me why their business exists. Because they
445. 00:27:32 jump to the outer ring of this golden circle and start telling me what they do, or maybe they go
446. 00:27:36 to the one layer in and like, how do they go about making that product? Like, what's the process of
447. 00:27:42 creating the alloys that go into that particular axle? Like those types of things are interesting,
448. 00:27:48 but that's not the phrase that Simon continually repeats throughout this book is people don't buy
449. 00:27:56 what you do. They buy why you do it. And that's something that, and it's very interesting.
450. 00:28:02 Here's another reason you should be able to listen to his TED talk. Because we talked about
451. 00:28:06 that last time I'm a fan of TED talks. He says, people don't buy what you do. They buy why you do
452. 00:28:10 it. And he's got a slight accent that I love hearing in my head whenever I say or hear that.
453. 00:28:17 So anyway, I got a thing for accents, I think. And that might be because I got a y'all
454. 00:28:22 folks southern twang that comes out in my voice on occasion. But anyway, long story short,
455. 00:28:27 I don't see with a lot of my clients, I don't see a lot of them getting anywhere close to resonating
456. 00:28:35 with that center of the bullseye. They always start on the outside and try to work their way in.
457. 00:28:41 And people really don't buy from companies that work that way. It just seems weird whenever you
458. 00:28:46 run into those scenarios, or it ends up producing a lot of scandals, which is like what he's talking
459. 00:28:52 about with Walmart anymore, since they've gotten so far away from there.
460. 00:28:55 Yeah, I can tell you from my experience in business, it's really refreshing to hear his perspective
461. 00:29:07 on why seeking out all of those transaction based stuff. If you don't have the why,
462. 00:29:12 and people ask you, well, why do you make the truck axles? Well, people need truck axles.
463. 00:29:18 That, like I've been there, I get that. And that is really, really frustrating because you're
464. 00:29:24 constantly having to work on the next sale. And he has a quote in here that I really, really liked
465. 00:29:30 about repeat business. He says, there's a big difference between business and loyalty. Repeat
466. 00:29:35 business is when people do business with you multiple times. Loyalty is when people are willing
467. 00:29:39 to turn down a better product or a better price to continue doing business with you.
468. 00:29:45 Loyal customers often don't even bother research the competition or entertain other options.
469. 00:29:50 Now when you're talking from a business perspective, what's your ideal customer? It's that guy,
470. 00:29:56 or that girl, that person who is not even going to look at the other things that are options,
471. 00:30:04 because you have built up so much trust and they are such raving fans. And this is why the
472. 00:30:09 Apple thing really resonated with me. I mean, as we record this, current events, recently,
473. 00:30:16 Samsung released the Galaxy Note 7, and it's been blowing up on people.
474. 00:30:21 Okay? Literally. So I've seen a lot of people who are like, "Ha, Samsung serves them right."
475. 00:30:27 But that's a great example of people who fit this. I'm just going to call it a stereotype. I don't
476. 00:30:33 think that's really the right word. But this description of somebody who is loyal to the
477. 00:30:39 Apple brand. And it's because Apple is completely unashamed about their why. And they know that
478. 00:30:49 it's not going to be for everybody. There are a lot of people who buy Android phones, and he talks
479. 00:30:54 about this in the book, how Apple's why doesn't resonate strongly with them. And you can apply
480. 00:31:00 that to any market segment you want, but because I'm a tech geek, that's the one that
481. 00:31:05 I was like, "Yeah, you're speaking my language. I totally get that." And that's completely okay.
482. 00:31:10 I've been in the position where it's like, "Oh, we got to capitalize on whatever market share we can get."
483. 00:31:15 And this whole book was a fresh air to me because I was like, "No, you don't have to do that."
484. 00:31:19 You just got to find the people who are really going to resonate with your whole purpose and
485. 00:31:25 your whole vision. And then you just got to be focused on that. You have to maintain integrity
486. 00:31:32 when it comes to that. That is more important. That's kind of a bigger impact on your bottom line
487. 00:31:37 than trying to become all things to all people so that whatever you're developing, whatever you're
488. 00:31:44 making, whatever you're building, whatever you're serving fits a need that they have. Because just
489. 00:31:49 because there is a need doesn't mean that those people are going to buy your thing. At some level,
490. 00:31:56 it's not really commodity-based, but kind of. There are enough options in our consumer-based
491. 00:32:04 society that if I didn't want this specific thing, I can go find something very similar. I can go
492. 00:32:09 find another smartphone that does the different things that I need it to do and buy it from a
493. 00:32:15 company that I'm more in tune or aligned with. I think the smartphone analogy, it's one that
494. 00:32:22 makes this really easy to understand. There's a lot of passion in that because there's such a
495. 00:32:32 personal device. But something that I think makes a lot easier is because Apple people, us,
496. 00:32:39 when it comes to buying a smartphone, the question is seven or seven plus. That's the simple question
497. 00:32:46 that you're trying to answer. Whenever you don't resonate with Apple or you don't understand why
498. 00:32:53 you would pay a premium for a smartphone and you're going to go Android, there's a lot of options.
499. 00:32:59 There's a ton of different ways that you can get into the Android system. Do you want a Samsung?
500. 00:33:04 Do you want an HTC? Do you want the list can go on of all the Android devices out there? But
501. 00:33:10 something that I think really shows this is that, and I run into this a lot because people are always
502. 00:33:16 asking Apple or Android, that question comes up a lot. Usually that question is sparked by
503. 00:33:22 Android users. I've tried to sit down and figure out when I've had somebody who's using an iPhone
504. 00:33:29 ask me if they should switch to Android and I can't come up with a single time that's ever happened.
505. 00:33:34 I very regularly have Android users who will try to argue with me over how their phone is just as
506. 00:33:41 good as mine or better than mine. But I never ever see people who even want to start that
507. 00:33:49 conversation the other way around. It's almost like I run into these Android users who are trying
508. 00:33:54 to justify their decision for not using an Apple device and people who are using an Apple phone
509. 00:33:59 don't even understand why there's a question out there. So to me, that's the ultimate of people who
510. 00:34:06 get into Apple devices typically have bought in hard and are extremely loyal to the company.
511. 00:34:14 And those who aren't, they're probably getting something weird with hand-me-down devices and such.
512. 00:34:20 But it seems like to me that whenever you get into it and you're really truly loyal,
513. 00:34:25 it's not even a question. It's not even something to discuss. It's not even something that's even
514. 00:34:31 worth bringing up because the decision's already made. They have a new phone. Do I have an upgrade
515. 00:34:38 available or not? That's as far as it goes. It's really polarizing because of Apple's strong
516. 00:34:46 messaging around their why. You either love them or you hate them. But the people who are on their
517. 00:34:53 side are usually raving fans. And to be honest, like I mentioned the Samsung Galaxy Note 7 thing,
518. 00:35:00 I'm not in that camp that's like, we'll take that Samsung. I think it's terrible that that's
519. 00:35:05 happening. And I think ultimately this is a bad thing. I think competition in the market is good.
520. 00:35:09 I think that having Samsung, or I'll just say Android, because I know there's a lot of different
521. 00:35:15 makers that make Android phones, Android and iOS, having those two very popular options is
522. 00:35:22 ultimately going to result in better products for the consumer no matter what side that you're on.
523. 00:35:27 So I don't want to make it sound like we're just completely on Apple's side and everything that's
524. 00:35:33 not Apple is wrong. But the technology based examples are really good for this particular book,
525. 00:35:41 I believe, because there's another thing that he talks about in here with the,
526. 00:35:44 what's he called it? He calls it the law of diffusion of innovations, that bell curve.
527. 00:35:51 If you remember that, where he talks about at the very front 2.5%, our innovators, and then 13.5%
528. 00:35:58 our early adopters, 34% our early majority, 34% then on the back end of this, our late majority and 16%
529. 00:36:05 are laggards. And this was interesting because I've always considered myself
530. 00:36:11 an Apple fanboy to a certain extent. But let me ask you, I guess, before I reveal mine, did you
531. 00:36:18 locate yourself on this bell curve? It really depends on what you're talking about. Are you
532. 00:36:23 talking about computer devices, like technology? Yeah, I mean, we'll just use technology as an
533. 00:36:29 example. So when it comes to smartphones or computers, we'll lump those together. Where do you fall
534. 00:36:34 on this? If you give me unlimited funds, I will always be an early adopter and buy them as soon
535. 00:36:41 as I can. That's where I land. And I know that. But if you put me, and this is why I asked about
536. 00:36:47 the specific sector, because there are some realms like take agriculture, which is my bread and butter.
537. 00:36:53 If you let me go work in that, I will fall into that innovator category, because I'll help come up
538. 00:36:59 with the new stuff and try to use things that have never been used before. Like I'll fall into that
539. 00:37:04 category. But you get me into cars and new technology and cars, I'll hit that late majority to laggard
540. 00:37:15 level. So it really depends on the sector. I think it's going to be dependent on what specific
541. 00:37:20 thing we're talking about for them. But yeah, if you're talking computers and smartphones and
542. 00:37:25 that type of thing, given the ability, I'll fall into that early adopter category.
543. 00:37:30 So you just stole my follow-up point, but that's okay. Which was that we are all innovators and
544. 00:37:38 early adopters in some area. And he talks about how he uses the example of him and I think his
545. 00:37:43 sister maybe, where she's an innovator when it comes to fashion and he's an innovator when it
546. 00:37:50 comes to technology. And he's trying to convince her that she should get a Blu-ray player and she's
547. 00:37:54 trying to convince him that he should get designer jeans. And the person who's trying to do the
548. 00:37:58 convincing is always hitting a brick wall. And I thought that was really, really interesting.
549. 00:38:03 But I also thought it was interesting because I'm looking at my behavior patterns.
550. 00:38:08 And I'm looking at this. And I always would have thought because I consider myself a pretty technical,
551. 00:38:14 pretty technology savvy. I would think that I would tend to be on the front end of this curve,
552. 00:38:22 like the innovators. But I think I fall actually in the early majority or early adopters section.
553. 00:38:31 Probably early majority though. We're talking about smartphones and we're kind of dating the
554. 00:38:37 podcast when we do this. But as we're recording, the iPhone 7 just launched and people are talking
555. 00:38:43 about which ones they ordered and when they're coming and things like that, I did not get a new
556. 00:38:48 iPhone. And to tell you the truth, I didn't really want to get a new iPhone. If someone were to hand
557. 00:38:53 me one, that'd be fine. But I'm not going to go out and spend $1,000 on this thing.
558. 00:38:57 Mac OS Sierra was released and I didn't even think about upgrading it because I don't want it to
559. 00:39:03 break the things that I use on a daily basis, like Skype, although today, what could possibly be
560. 00:39:09 sold on its face today? Hello, it's not working anyways. So maybe I should become more of an early
561. 00:39:16 adopter there. But yeah, this was really interesting to me because I kind of painted myself into a
562. 00:39:22 corner and then painted a picture of where I thought I was. And then when I thought about it,
563. 00:39:28 I'm like, actually, I'm not that. And then as I was thinking about the different hats that I
564. 00:39:32 wear, the different roles that I have, trying to identify myself regarding the different scenarios
565. 00:39:38 and the different things that I'm involved in. Well, it was actually a pretty cool exercise and
566. 00:39:45 it brought a lot of clarity to how and why I do things the way that I do. I think it's interesting
567. 00:39:50 to look at that chart and I'll grab a picture of this and put it in the show notes. But if you
568. 00:39:55 look at this, to me, it's interesting that you say that you're putting yourself in the early
569. 00:40:00 majority category. I can see that. And a lot of times I will fall into that. But it's not because
570. 00:40:07 of a lack of want, like it's not because I don't want to. Like, okay, so let's use macOS here coming
571. 00:40:14 out. I almost decided to upgrade to that this morning. Now you have to keep in mind, I'm not
572. 00:40:19 even up to Yosemite right now. So I need to get upgraded soon. Anyway, I didn't because I knew
573. 00:40:26 we were going to be recording this podcast. However, when we're done with this podcast,
574. 00:40:30 I will be saving my files, running a backup, and then I will be hitting that upgrade button
575. 00:40:36 because I know that I don't have anything vital that needs done until about next Friday.
576. 00:40:41 So I have some time if something goes wrong, I have the ability to sit around and play with it
577. 00:40:47 to get it up and running correctly. But given the opportunity, like I'm not upgrading to an iPhone
578. 00:40:53 7 that has nothing to do with anything other than finances currently. Like I just don't want to
579. 00:40:58 spend the money on it and I would have to buy out my current process on my current phone. And I'm
580. 00:41:03 just, I don't want to do it. So it has more to do with finances and anything. But if you got
581. 00:41:07 rid of that variable, I would do it immediately. So that's how I know I'm in that early adopter
582. 00:41:13 category with that stuff, just because when new ones come out, I want it right now. And I want
583. 00:41:18 to get into there. But I know that I'm not in the innovator category because, and I think when it
584. 00:41:23 comes to these particular pieces, like what we're talking about, very few people actually fall
585. 00:41:27 into the innovator category just because we don't have the ability to build the hardware that does
586. 00:41:34 this stuff. We could do the software pieces, but the hardware is very difficult for just the average
587. 00:41:39 Joe off the street to just go build a new laptop to compete with Apple. Like that just doesn't really
588. 00:41:46 happen. Right. And he talks about how the best does not always win. And that's really the key
589. 00:41:54 takeaway with that bell curve, I believe, is he mentions that it's critical that you reach the
590. 00:42:01 early adopters because they are going to champion your cause to the majority. Right. So if you go on
591. 00:42:08 Twitter right now, you're going to see all sorts of stuff from the early adopters and the innovators
592. 00:42:14 who are upgrading to this stuff. And every time you see somebody that says, hey, upgraded, you know,
593. 00:42:19 I'm able to do this. I'm able to send lasers in my messages app. Right. That that is one more thing
594. 00:42:27 that's going to move me in the right direction towards adopting that technology. And it's really
595. 00:42:34 interesting to think about this from a business perspective, because like we talked about, we're
596. 00:42:39 all influencers about different things. And I think that sometimes we have assumptions about who the
597. 00:42:46 influencers are and we go after those people and they're not the correct influencers. But really,
598. 00:42:51 the key to your success from a business perspective is to find those influencers, get them on board,
599. 00:42:59 and then have them champion your cause for you communicating once again, starting with the why.
600. 00:43:04 And there's a really good example of somebody who did not communicate their why very well with
601. 00:43:12 Tivo. Oh, yeah. And I did not know the whole picture of Tivo, but I know it's been around for a
602. 00:43:17 long time. And I was I fell into that camp where I'm like, well, why do I need that? Like, what is
603. 00:43:23 the benefit to that? You know, and he talks about and I don't know, this is probably not the entire
604. 00:43:28 story, but it was basically set up on a silver platter for Tivo to dominate this entire industry.
605. 00:43:35 But they could never really articulate why the average TV watcher would need this service.
606. 00:43:41 And that comes back to something else that I put on the outline here, the salary test.
607. 00:43:46 All right.
608. 00:43:47 The salary test is for like, he uses the example where everybody's got their opinions about this
609. 00:43:55 is what you need to do. This is what you need to buy, etc. And so he says, you ask somebody,
610. 00:44:00 what's the secret to business success? And like, oh, you got to buy Oreos and somebody else is like,
611. 00:44:04 well, you got to buy M&Ms and somebody else is like, no, you got to buy rice pudding and celery.
612. 00:44:08 And it comes back to the why. If you're a why, if your goal is to become healthy and fit, you're
613. 00:44:14 going to go to the grocery store and you're not going to buy the Oreos and the M&Ms, even though
614. 00:44:19 there are innovators that are pushing those who are saying, yeah, this is the thing,
615. 00:44:23 because it just doesn't seem right. And it's really important for the, so I guess,
616. 00:44:31 tying this all back, it's really important for two things to happen. One, you have to identify the
617. 00:44:35 people who are really going to champion your cause. And then two, there really has to be authenticity
618. 00:44:41 there for why they are championing this thing. There really has to be some value that's derived
619. 00:44:47 from it so that it passes another way, I guess, to say it would be like the smell test, you know,
620. 00:44:51 where when they, when this innovator talks to an early adopter or a late, early majority or a
621. 00:44:57 late majority, that they can look at that and say, yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay,
622. 00:45:01 I'll do that. I'll go ahead and install that, that operating system. And I think a lot of
623. 00:45:06 companies never really take the time, a lot of organizations never really take the time to
624. 00:45:11 identify that so they can articulate it so that that message is kind of like a telephone game,
625. 00:45:15 unless you start with, with something that is authentic, you're never going to get that down
626. 00:45:20 the road, it's not going to become clear through translation, you have to make sure that you start
627. 00:45:26 with a really solid, solid, articulated and very clear why, and then you can hope that that gets
628. 00:45:31 translated correctly, but it's never going to become more clear as the process moves down the
629. 00:45:36 chain. If you if you finish off the Tivo example, they, you know, essentially what they did is they
630. 00:45:43 came up with this revolutionary device that allowed you to record your TV shows. We know what a Tivo
631. 00:45:50 is, but instead of telling us, you know, this allows you to control your life, this is allowing you to,
632. 00:45:55 you know, put things, you know, watch things when you want to instead of just when the cable
633. 00:46:02 companies tell you you can, instead of telling us that they told us that, hey, you can record shows
634. 00:46:07 and then you can play them back. That, you know, instead of telling us why it existed, they told us
635. 00:46:12 what it did. I think a good parallel to this is, and I don't think this is an example from
636. 00:46:19 this particular book, but when Apple came out with, you know, let's go, let's throw more Apple
637. 00:46:23 examples out here. When Apple came out with the iPod, they didn't tell us, you know, it has such
638. 00:46:31 and such size hard drive and here's how it plays and here's how you hit back and forward. Like,
639. 00:46:36 it didn't tell us all that. They said, you can keep a thousand songs in your pocket. You know,
640. 00:46:41 you can take your music with you. You're the type of person that wants to listen to music
641. 00:46:45 whenever and wherever you want. This will do it for you. That's what they told us. They told us
642. 00:46:50 why this thing existed instead of telling us, hey, you can put, you know, this many gigabytes
643. 00:46:56 worth of song, or maybe it was megabytes. I don't even remember, but, you know, whatever that size was,
644. 00:47:01 but, you know, there's a very big contrast between those two approaches. Well, we all know how big
645. 00:47:07 the iPod was and it's pretty obvious that Tivo didn't dominate the market like they should have
646. 00:47:12 and it's primarily because of the way that they marketed it to us and Simon Sennick does a pretty
647. 00:47:18 good job of explaining that in a couple of scenarios. I can't even place where it's at right
648. 00:47:21 now, Mike. I tried to find it, but couldn't do it, but he gave a couple examples of explaining the
649. 00:47:28 differences in marketing tactics that people use or that companies use where they'll say, you know,
650. 00:47:33 this is how big the hard drive is. This is the speed of its processor. Like, they would give us
651. 00:47:38 all these stats on it and then they would say, do you want to buy it? Well, if you come at it the
652. 00:47:43 other way around and take, say, the Apple approach where, you know, we have a passion for design,
653. 00:47:50 we want to bring computing power to the everyday man. And by the way, we have a computer that has
654. 00:47:57 this much hard drive and this much RAM. Like, you come at it from a different perspective where
655. 00:48:02 you start out with the inner, you know, start out with the bullseye, that golden circle with your
656. 00:48:06 why, even in your marketing. You know, let's talk about why our company and why we exist.
657. 00:48:12 Let's talk about that first. And then we'll talk about how we go about making it and then we'll
658. 00:48:17 talk about what it is. I mean, look at Apple's launch events whenever they introduce a new product.
659. 00:48:23 They always start out with some of the purpose behind a product and then they go through the
660. 00:48:28 process of how they made it. And then they'll tell you what that will do, which is just fascinating
661. 00:48:34 that, and I don't even know if they intend to do it that way or if they just, you know,
662. 00:48:38 figured it out through trial and error, but you know, they follow that golden circle perfectly
663. 00:48:44 in almost every piece of marketing they ever do. And that might be why so many of us are such
664. 00:48:49 huge fans of them anymore, because they've hit us at the core, Mike.
665. 00:48:53 Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the launch events because I heard a statistic just this week that
666. 00:49:02 the iPhone seven launch event, this is a statistic cited by the company that
667. 00:49:07 built the streaming infrastructure that was used to broadcast the event. They said that more people
668. 00:49:16 tuned in to watch the iPhone seven launch event than at any point during the Olympics this year.
669. 00:49:25 Oh my gosh. And that's, that's because like, not total viewers, obviously for the Olympics,
670. 00:49:30 but at any given point during the Olympics, the total number of viewers at that given point was
671. 00:49:36 less than the number of people who tuned in to watch the iPhone seven launch event. And it's because
672. 00:49:42 the goal is not to build a company. It is to in Simon Cinex words to build a megaphone. He talks
673. 00:49:48 about how most companies have logos, but few have been able to convert those logos into meaningful
674. 00:49:55 symbols. And that is definitely something that Apple has been able to do.
675. 00:50:00 Or Harley, he talked about Harley Davidson quite a bit and the passion that people have for those
676. 00:50:06 motorcycles, despite the growing group of people who hate them, you know, there's always a battle
677. 00:50:13 back and forth, but yeah, welcome to iOS and Android fights. The Harley Davidson logo is one of the
678. 00:50:20 few in existence that people will tattoo on their bodies. People love them that much that they'll
679. 00:50:26 put a corporate logo on their chest. It's just what people love them that much. And very few
680. 00:50:32 companies ever, you know, can even imagine reaching that level of loyalty.
681. 00:50:37 Yeah, exactly. And that's because their, their goal is a little bit skewed. He talks, he has
682. 00:50:48 another line in here where he talks about how money is never a cause. It is always a result.
683. 00:50:53 And how many times have you heard from different companies or organizations that you've worked with?
684. 00:50:57 You've got to keep an eye on the bottom line. What Simon Cinex is saying is that no, you don't.
685. 00:51:04 You need to keep an eye on your vision and your why. And the score will take care of itself. And I
686. 00:51:11 thought that was really cool. He also mentioned that what gets measured gets done. And that
687. 00:51:19 really challenged me because from an organizational perspective, what are the
688. 00:51:25 marketing term I know about key performance indicators? What are the things that really
689. 00:51:31 determine a safe guys? Come on, Mike. Sorry. But I'm thinking about this, not just from an
690. 00:51:37 organization, or I guess not from a business perspective, but like even from a ministry
691. 00:51:43 perspective, like I'm the men's minister at our church. What are the things that contribute to a
692. 00:51:51 successful ministry? And you can apply this to anything. What are the key things that determine
693. 00:51:56 whether your family is successful? You know, you can apply this to any area of life, but you do need
694. 00:52:02 to make sure that you are measuring the correct things. And then you have to measure those if you
695. 00:52:07 don't get if you don't measure those specific things, then those things are not going to get done.
696. 00:52:12 Maybe for your family, it's quality time. So it's the number of days that you spend
697. 00:52:18 going to, I don't know, field trips, number of vacation days that you spend, I say field trips
698. 00:52:24 because I'm we homeschool our kids. You know, so when I take a vacation day, it's usually to go to
699. 00:52:29 the Children's Museum or something with my family. But those are the things that really
700. 00:52:34 build strength in our family. It's that quality time that I spend with my wife and with my kids. So
701. 00:52:40 that's something that I want to measure. And if I haven't gone on a field trip so far this year,
702. 00:52:46 like I want to know that because that means that that thing is overdue. And if I neglect that for
703. 00:52:52 too long, then the organization, in this case, the family organization is going to suffer because of
704. 00:52:57 that. I think that makes a lot of sense. If you don't understand why you're doing something,
705. 00:53:04 why do it at all? This is funny. You want to take it to a really low level here.
706. 00:53:10 Earlier today, so my wife is gone for the weekend. She's at a women's retreat. Kudos to her. I really
707. 00:53:17 wanted her to get some time to just go and relax and enjoy a nice little relaxing weekend. I
708. 00:53:24 wanted her to get some of that. Anyway, I looked at my oldest and I realized she had her arms full
709. 00:53:32 of toys. She just was loaded up with tons of toys. And I asked her if she was playing with all of
710. 00:53:38 the toys. And she looked at me and said, "No." You have like 15 toys under your arms. You
711. 00:53:46 reloaded it up. And I realized that our youngest was running around. Didn't really look like she
712. 00:53:52 knew what to do. And that made me realize, "Oh, Emma is holding on to all of these toys because
713. 00:53:59 she doesn't want Rose to play with them." So I looked at Emma and said, "Okay,
714. 00:54:02 why are you holding on to all those toys?" She's like, "I don't know." It's like, "Well, if you don't
715. 00:54:07 know why you're holding on to all these things, why don't you put them down?" That's a good point.
716. 00:54:13 And then she went and she put all the toys down. And only when she put the toys down did she
717. 00:54:18 realize why she was still holding on to them. And then she started trying to gather them again.
718. 00:54:21 Anyway, it was interesting to me that even at that level, the simple question of, "Why are you
719. 00:54:27 holding on to all this stuff?" Even in a three-year-old triggered the idea that,
720. 00:54:31 "I don't know why I'm doing this. I'm going to stop doing this." And if a three-year-old can
721. 00:54:39 figure that out, you would think billion-dollar companies could figure that out.
722. 00:54:43 That we have all these things. I don't even remember the book now, "Sunk Cost Bias" that we
723. 00:54:49 talked about where you invest a lot into a specific thing or a product and it's hard to kill it
724. 00:54:54 because you've got so much invested in it. Well, there's a lot of that to be said with the why
725. 00:55:00 as well because if you don't understand why you're holding on to something,
726. 00:55:04 why do you still have it? Get rid of it. Let's go to minimalism. If you don't know why it's in
727. 00:55:11 your life, if it doesn't have an exact purpose that happens repeatedly and frequently, get rid of
728. 00:55:17 it. And don't hold on to things just because you think you should. That's a terrible reason to keep
729. 00:55:22 doing things. I think there's a lot of value just in seeing and applying the purpose and a mission
730. 00:55:30 and a vision to a lot of different areas, not just in business. It's obvious this is a primarily
731. 00:55:36 business and leadership book, but I think there's a lot of truth that can come out of it down to
732. 00:55:42 even a lower level, even to raising kids when they're playing with toys.
733. 00:55:48 Absolutely, because it's one thing even to know the why yourself, but then you have to be able to
734. 00:55:56 communicate that to other people. You have to be able to give that vision or that why to everybody
735. 00:56:05 else that you work with or serve with or are in the organization with you. And he talks about how
736. 00:56:14 that is the most difficult thing that you can do. He says that, where is it? I think he said in the
737. 00:56:22 book, I didn't write this part down, but I think he said that successful succession is like the
738. 00:56:27 most difficult thing for a business. And this is the part I did write down. He says successful
739. 00:56:31 succession is more than selecting someone with an appropriate skill set. It's about finding someone
740. 00:56:36 who is in lockstep with the original cause around which the company was founded. And he uses a bunch
741. 00:56:42 of examples. We mentioned the Walmart example already, which really just solidified it for me.
742. 00:56:48 Like how important that stuff really was. Like you have to get the right people on the bus, so to speak.
743. 00:56:56 People really have to be on board with the why. And if they're not on board with the why,
744. 00:57:02 that's okay, but it's not the right fit. And coming back to the business side of it,
745. 00:57:08 you know, it's not just the people that you work with. It's not just the people who are in the
746. 00:57:12 organization with you. It's the people that you're trying to, trying to sell to. And he has a quote at
747. 00:57:16 the, at the very end of the book, which I absolutely loved. He said, are we better than our competition?
748. 00:57:21 If you believe what we believe and you believe the things we can do can help you, then we're better.
749. 00:57:26 And if you don't believe what we believe and you don't believe the things we can do will help you,
750. 00:57:30 then we're not better. Our goal is to find customers who believe what we believe and work together so
751. 00:57:36 that we can all succeed. And through all the different stories and things that he talks about,
752. 00:57:40 and this is kind of getting to your last pointer, I guess, the achievement versus success, like
753. 00:57:44 true success comes when there is synergy throughout the entire organization or the entire team.
754. 00:57:51 And that has to be from the top down. You can't just believe the why, like Sam Walton did,
755. 00:57:58 you have to be able to communicate that. And you have to be able to pass what he calls the school
756. 00:58:03 bus test, which is where if the leader of the organization were to get hit by a school bus
757. 00:58:08 tomorrow, is the why clearly articulated enough that everybody else in the organization would be
758. 00:58:14 able to pick it up and run with it. And Walmart is an example of that not happening. I would
759. 00:58:19 argue that Apple is actually a pretty good example of that happening. I know people will say, well,
760. 00:58:24 it's not Steve Jobs Apple anymore. But I think for the most part, Tim Cook has been around long
761. 00:58:28 enough that he's done a very, very good job maintaining that why throughout the company. He does things
762. 00:58:35 a little bit different. He famously released the Apple Pencil where Steve Jobs said, like,
763. 00:58:41 you don't need a stylus. We'll never make a stylus, things like that. But he's connected to the why.
764. 00:58:47 And that's actually, now that I bring that point up, that's a really good example of people who
765. 00:58:52 are viewing this from an inside out perspective versus an outside in perspective. The people who
766. 00:58:57 will say, well, see, Tim Cook is not doing the same things as Steve Jobs would have done. They're
767. 00:59:02 focusing on the what and the how. And they're focusing on what Steve Jobs said. He said, well,
768. 00:59:08 you don't need a stylus. The perfect stylus is at the end of your hand. But it doesn't bother Tim
769. 00:59:13 Cook and the rest of Apple that Steve Jobs once said that because they're looking from the inside
770. 00:59:18 out. They're starting with the why. And they're asking themselves at this point today, like,
771. 00:59:22 what is the vision? What would this, what would Steve Jobs do in this particular instance,
772. 00:59:26 so to speak? Although I don't think they frame it that way. But it's more what would Apple,
773. 00:59:30 what would the Apple that Steve Jobs created do? What would the Apple that we've all bought into?
774. 00:59:34 And we've developed over the years, what would they do? And the answer is develop a really awesome
775. 00:59:39 stylus to go with this iPad Pro that we released. And they're okay with that. You know, I think
776. 00:59:44 I've been in situations though, where it's like, Oh, well, we once said this thing. So we can't go
777. 00:59:48 back on our word. That's the wrong way to view it. That's looking at it from the, from the wrong
778. 00:59:55 perspective, the wrong direction. And that can end up, I mean, it's a stylus, who cares? Like,
779. 01:00:00 that's not going to make or break the company. But there are, there are situations that I can
780. 01:00:04 think of in my own life, which I don't really want to share the podcast here. But like, we've,
781. 01:00:11 we've said, Oh, we did this thing six years ago. So we can't possibly pivot and change directions
782. 01:00:17 now because we're focused on the what. See, I think the Apple pencil thing, there is a good
783. 01:00:24 example because so much of what they've done and what they've said in the past, it comes through
784. 01:00:31 in something like the pencil, like it comes through in something like a stylus, because they're
785. 01:00:36 trying so much to do this whole rebellious concept of helping the every man in competing with, say,
786. 01:00:44 the corporations of the world. And whenever you have something like a stylus, you're able to write
787. 01:00:50 and draw and create in ways that can rival what those big companies do. And that's so much of what
788. 01:00:56 Apple tries to do is make really complex and really sophisticated and complicated processes,
789. 01:01:03 like video and audio editing. And in my case, a lot of development, they're pretty good at making a
790. 01:01:08 lot of that feasible from just about anybody that can pick up the devices. And there's a lot of that
791. 01:01:16 that is easier done with something like a stylus. So I think there's a lot of value in them doing
792. 01:01:21 something like that. And it's because they understand the why of what they do, and they understand
793. 01:01:26 how to build something that garners a close relationship with the people who are going to be
794. 01:01:34 using it. You know, there's a lot of loyalty that comes from the people who use their products.
795. 01:01:40 So something like a stylus can help that come about, it can help people use the device in a
796. 01:01:44 better way. And you know, honestly, it's, you know, I think your last point here is trust is not a
797. 01:01:50 checklist. I think there's truth in that because so many companies and so many, at least the
798. 01:01:56 corporations I've worked with, Mike, both as clients and just working for them as an employee,
799. 01:02:02 they so often want to build loyalty. They'll put together these graphs and the funnels that
800. 01:02:08 you'll see on these big presentations of how do we take people from a first time buyer to a loyal
801. 01:02:14 forever customer? And they want to put, they literally create these checklists of here are the things
802. 01:02:20 and here are the steps we need to take these people through in order to get them to a loyal
803. 01:02:24 and trusting customer. And that's not the point. Like, that's not why, like you have to understand
804. 01:02:34 the vision of why the company exists and then let that come through. And then people will buy
805. 01:02:39 into that, even if it's just the early adopters, then they'll become your spokespeople. You know,
806. 01:02:44 this is repetitive at this point, but you have to come at it from the standpoint of here's why we
807. 01:02:50 exist as a company. And this is what we do. And you know, this is how we get this what in existence.
808. 01:02:58 So I think that people so often try to say here are the steps you go through in order to succeed
809. 01:03:05 and to build that trust. It doesn't work that way. That's not, you missed the point if that's what
810. 01:03:12 you're trying to do. Exactly. You cannot just do xyz and then get trust. He says, trust begins to
811. 01:03:21 emerge when we have a sense that another person or organization is driven by things other than
812. 01:03:26 their own self gain. And when you meet a company or a client, I may guess a relationship could work
813. 01:03:34 either way. And they're willing to change their business model in order to work with you.
814. 01:03:40 That is not going to facilitate trust that may facilitate a transaction, which is going to
815. 01:03:47 provide a temporary short term gain, but it's going to provide a long term loss as you have to
816. 01:03:53 rejigger your whole business model to figure out how do I how do I actually sustain this.
817. 01:03:57 So just being upfront, saying like, yeah, you know, we may not be the best fit, but this is what
818. 01:04:03 we believe. And if you agree, then come on board, we'll work together and we'll build you something
819. 01:04:08 awesome. That builds trust, even with people who don't resonate, I think with what specifically
820. 01:04:14 your why is, but the people who really do resonate with that, that's where the trust comes. And what
821. 01:04:19 that trust comes a sense of value. In fact, he actually says that value is the transference of trust.
822. 01:04:24 But trust is not something that you can manufacture. And that's the whole point behind trust is not a
823. 01:04:32 checklist. You can't just do all the steps. And then all of a sudden you have trust. Trust is
824. 01:04:38 kind of a hands off thing where obviously the things that you do will or will not build trust.
825. 01:04:44 But you just do your part basically. And then it's up to the individual. And how they respond to
826. 01:04:51 your why to manufacture that trust or not. And you have to be okay with there's a bunch of people
827. 01:04:57 that are not going to trust us. And that's okay, there are a lot of people that don't trust apple,
828. 01:05:02 that absolutely hate apple and vice versa. But if you can create those raving fans,
829. 01:05:08 those innovators who will go to bat for you, then that will provide the success. And like I said,
830. 01:05:13 that's not just a company or a business perspective. That's everything. I mean, that's what I really
831. 01:05:18 liked about this book is this is a leadership book. Leadership can look a lot of different ways.
832. 01:05:25 Leadership could be leading your family. It could be leading an organization. It could be leading a
833. 01:05:30 business. It could be leading a ministry. It could be leading a community service team.
834. 01:05:34 You know, fill in the blank for your sphere of influence. But the principles that are in this book,
835. 01:05:39 I think are transformational because a lot of people view leadership as well, I have authority.
836. 01:05:48 And I'm going to tell you to do something and you're just going to do what I say. But really like
837. 01:05:52 bringing this all the way back, you can't just manipulate people that way through power or through
838. 01:05:58 even incentivization, you have to inspire people. And if you can't figure out how to inspire people,
839. 01:06:04 then any sort of leadership position you have is going to be short lived.
840. 01:06:07 Just to just to clarify what you just said, you can get people to do what you want through
841. 01:06:12 manipulation. Well, it's not discount that. Like you can, you can in the short term, you can pull
842. 01:06:19 that off, but you won't build a bigger, longer term business through those methods without
843. 01:06:26 destroying your business itself. Just exactly. And a great, great example, a great example of this,
844. 01:06:32 I guess, to be the family perspective, like we both have young kids. Yes. Right now,
845. 01:06:36 we can tell our kids, you have to go to bed by nine o'clock. Yes. Okay. But when they get to be
846. 01:06:42 16, 17, 18, they're still under our roof. It's easy to try to play the power card with, well,
847. 01:06:48 you're under my roof, you obey my rules. It's not going to work though. And all that's going to do
848. 01:06:54 is it's going to produce this long term resentment instead of inspiring our kids to
849. 01:07:00 deliver right and to make healthy choices, we're going to just basically build up this
850. 01:07:04 resentment until they finally get freedom. And those are the people that they go to college and
851. 01:07:08 they drink and they party and they funk out of school because I finally have this freedom.
852. 01:07:13 You know, that's not what I want. So this book really hit home for me because I feel like these
853. 01:07:17 are principles that I really have to solidify. I'll just use the family example. Like in my family
854. 01:07:23 right now, because my kids are impressionable right now. And if I don't get this stuff down,
855. 01:07:29 like it's gonna, I'm gonna get a harvest in six, eight, 10 years and it's either going to be good
856. 01:07:37 or bad based on what I do right now. So I really want to make sure that I nail this.
857. 01:07:41 Absolutely. And I know that for me, one of the things, I'm going to transition here
858. 01:07:46 into action items, but one of the things that really struck me on this was that
859. 01:07:51 so much of what I do in web development, like whenever I meet with clients and I build websites
860. 01:07:58 for them. That is something that I am very good about stating, here's why I'm here. Here's why I'm
861. 01:08:05 helpful to you. If that doesn't resonate with you, we need to split ways. And I'm very good at it
862. 01:08:14 from that standpoint. The place I tend to fall down with knowing why I do things. And it's not
863. 01:08:22 that I don't know why it's it's more that I have a feeling of my purpose behind my online business.
864. 01:08:28 So why do I write the blog? Why do I write scripts that I give away? Why are we doing this podcast?
865. 01:08:33 Like there's a lot of these things that I do online, both in written words, spoken words,
866. 01:08:40 and then video in some form. It all involves words in some way. And it just depends on the
867. 01:08:46 medium you want to share them. The question is, why do I do that? I could tell you, like, if we sat
868. 01:08:51 down and talked about it for about 15 minutes, I could explain it to you. But I've never taken
869. 01:08:56 the time to boil that down to say, here's exactly why I run this whole thing. And here's my purpose
870. 01:09:03 behind it. Like I could get there eventually, but I've never boiled it down to define it specifically.
871. 01:09:11 You get the difference between those two. That's kind of a nebulous thing there.
872. 01:09:15 But that's what I want to try to do is get it boiled down to where I can state it clearly and
873. 01:09:21 succinctly. Yeah, exactly. And I guess I didn't actually put down an action item because as I was
874. 01:09:28 going through this, I saw all the different places that this applied to my life. And I felt like I was
875. 01:09:32 kind of drinking from the fire hose, honestly, in terms of this book. And so, but my action item,
876. 01:09:40 I'll just say is to do the exact same thing, just like reevaluate everything that I can easily
877. 01:09:48 now sit down and identify all the things that I say I'm going to do or I want to do, for example,
878. 01:09:55 I'm in a journal every night and I'm going to read my Bible and pray every day. Like,
879. 01:10:02 those are things that are built into my current routines. And there are certain things that
880. 01:10:07 we make our kids do, but I wanted to just basically take everything, all the different areas of my
881. 01:10:14 life where I have those things. Like, I know the what and I want to actually just deconstruct
882. 01:10:21 all of those things and say, okay, what is the why behind this? Basically, what you're saying with
883. 01:10:27 your with your business. I just was really impacted by this book. And I realized that this has far
884. 01:10:33 reaching effects throughout a lot of different arenas. And so, this is not probably going to be
885. 01:10:38 something that we'll be able to completely follow up on next time. But I want to I want to start
886. 01:10:45 from ground zero, I want to identify why for everything that we do, why do we parent the way
887. 01:10:51 that we do, why do I work the way that I do, why do I lead the ministry the way that I do,
888. 01:10:59 you know, and then if there's anything that's out of alignment there, it's got to be fixed.
889. 01:11:04 But that's that's a pretty big project. That's definitely going in on focus.
890. 01:11:07 So I have a whole bunch of questions for you for next time now.
891. 01:11:12 Yep. There we go. Would you think a Simon's writing style?
892. 01:11:17 I really liked the writing style. One thing I did not like was he capitalized every instance,
893. 01:11:26 I think of what why and how, which I get why he did that.
894. 01:11:30 It really makes the the terms pop off the page. But that got a little little old. That's not the
895. 01:11:37 stuff that really resonated with me. It was more of the illustrations and the examples.
896. 01:11:42 When he was getting into the explanations behind the points that he was trying to make
897. 01:11:48 with that type of stuff. That's the only thing really that I didn't like about it though.
898. 01:11:52 I really liked his his writing style. I really like his examples. I thought that his interpretation
899. 01:11:58 of of events and things was spot on. I know you mentioned like it's apple apple apple. There are
900. 01:12:02 a lot of different examples there. It's kind of obvious that he's a technology guy with an apple
901. 01:12:06 bias as well. But I thought that everything that he said was not not viewed through like
902. 01:12:12 roles colored glasses, so to speak. It was it was an accurate interpretation of the events
903. 01:12:18 at the time that he was writing the book. So I really liked it and I would give it a 4.5.
904. 01:12:24 4.5. So from my standpoint, I've said it a couple times now, I got tired of that apple constant,
905. 01:12:34 which is fine. Again, I'm a big apple fan. So I'm good with that. My only thing was it just seemed
906. 01:12:42 like there were a couple places where he could have broke the monotony a little bit.
907. 01:12:48 And gone a different route. And that meant that to me it was a bit repetitive and there were a
908. 01:12:52 lot of cases where and I just noticed this because I write a lot and you write a lot too. But we
909. 01:13:00 you do that enough and you can start to notice things within certain paragraphs where it's like,
910. 01:13:05 okay, so that sentence that you wrote there is almost identical to the one a couple paragraphs
911. 01:13:10 before and it says the same thing. So why did you say it again? Like there was a lot of that
912. 01:13:15 that I ran across and it just kind of got to be annoying to me. So that's why I say a bit
913. 01:13:21 repetitive. That's a personal preference. That's not something that I think most people would pick
914. 01:13:25 out. So that's just me. So anyway, all that to say I ended up rating this one a 4.0.
915. 01:13:33 Coming up next, the ones that I have when I picked out to come up next is the innovators dilemma
916. 01:13:41 by Clayton M. Christensen. And if I read correctly, he is a professor at Harvard. I think that's where
917. 01:13:50 he's a professor. I probably got that wrong. Anyway, that's one I've had on my list for a while.
918. 01:13:54 And I'm excited about that. Would you pick for following up to that one?
919. 01:13:58 Well, I saw this on the list and this has actually been something on my list as well.
920. 01:14:04 That is the productivity project by Chris Bailey. Chris Bailey was actually on the productivity show
921. 01:14:11 and I believe that his book might actually be featured in the dojo right now.
922. 01:14:17 Oh, nice.
923. 01:14:17 But yeah, so it's been something that when he was on the podcast, he was talking about the
924. 01:14:24 process that he was going through at the time of writing the book. So yeah, I'm interested to see
925. 01:14:30 the end result of that. And I've heard a lot of good things about the book as well. So cool.
926. 01:14:37 Yeah, I like our list of books. Mine grows a lot. I've got my own personal one that I maintain.
927. 01:14:43 And then there's the one that you and I share. And I'm sure you've got one separate from that as well.
928. 01:14:48 So book lists, yeah, they grow faster than you check them off. It's just the way it goes. However,
929. 01:14:55 dear listener, if you're listening to this and you have a specific book that you'd like to hear us
930. 01:15:00 go through, there is a way to recommend a book to us. If you go out to the bookworm site, bookworm.fm,
931. 01:15:06 you'll find a link out there. You can you can click on the recommend button
932. 01:15:10 that all the form will get that recommendation in the same area. You'll also find a book list that
933. 01:15:16 lists all the ones that we've already gone through, as well as the ones that are coming up.
934. 01:15:20 And those that have been recommended to us. So there is a way to see all of those. So you can
935. 01:15:23 get a feel for the type of books and the different scenarios that we like to talk through. You can
936. 01:15:28 get all of those out there at the bookworm site. And I did see that some of those have made it
937. 01:15:34 onto the list. So we're going to be tackling some of those recommendations here. Yeah, some of
938. 01:15:38 those recommendations made it onto the planned list. And there's one that's coming up very quickly
939. 01:15:43 that I got in the mail here recently. And it's much longer than I was expecting with very small
940. 01:15:49 type and it'll take a while to read that one. The other thing that you can do, and we would
941. 01:15:58 really appreciate this, is if you enjoy the show, go over to iTunes and leave us a review.
942. 01:16:04 Because the way that iTunes features podcasts, it takes into account and waits those reviews
943. 01:16:11 very heavily. So by leaving a review, you're helping other people find the show. So we would
944. 01:16:16 really appreciate if you would take a few moments and do that.
945. 01:16:19 And just to kind of tease some things, might going to have a couple little
946. 01:16:24 fun versions of episodes that we're going to deviate a little bit from the reading a book
947. 01:16:31 concept here very soon. So just kind of stay tuned. We've got some interesting things we're
948. 01:16:37 doing. We'd like to continue growing out the bookworm process. So those things are coming up,
949. 01:16:41 so stay tuned. And those will be out quick, it seems. So we're pretty excited about that. But
950. 01:16:46 until then, we have the innovators dilemma coming up. So if you're reading along with this,
951. 01:16:50 you can pick that one up and get ready to go through that one in a couple weeks. So we
952. 01:16:54 appreciate you tuning in to listen to us. And we will talk to you next time.