129: The Extended Mind by Annie Murphy Paul

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1. 00:00:00 So Joe do you have a new daily routine you'd like to walk us through not exactly but I have
2. 00:00:05 some plans for said routine because I can't put it in place yet and
3. 00:00:10 It's gonna be let's see when we record next I won't be able to have it in place yet
4. 00:00:18 but the time after that I should be able to okay and
5. 00:00:22 What I've what I've been working through because Becky and I have talked about it a little bit
6. 00:00:28 and I think what we're landing on is a lot of what we're currently doing actually works really really well and the pieces that are going to
7. 00:00:35 change
8. 00:00:37 Involve like going outside as a family and walking through woods and such and
9. 00:00:42 Exploring property and such when we normally wouldn't be able to do that. So those pieces are ones that we're
10. 00:00:50 Trying to figure out what we would like to have in place
11. 00:00:55 But not formally locking it in quite yet
12. 00:00:59 So I think in two books will at least have the beginnings of that experiment to talk through
13. 00:01:05 But right now really what it is is like I want to be able to go outside and walk
14. 00:01:10 Trails and such before breakfast have breakfast with the family and then if at all possible at some point in the day
15. 00:01:17 All of us are gonna go outside and do something in nature where we can because obviously with woods and
16. 00:01:23 Such right out the back door stuff like that gets real easy
17. 00:01:26 So we want to make that part of our daily routine
18. 00:01:29 I'm just not sure where that lands in the day because my schedule doesn't really allow
19. 00:01:34 Like lunchtime and such, but maybe we do it after I get off work
20. 00:01:38 I don't know what that is. So that's the piece that I think we're trying to to put in place
21. 00:01:43 Obviously the evening walk through the trails and such I'm gonna keep so yes
22. 00:01:47 That's what I know at the moment
23. 00:01:48 But it's still like we got to get moved before I can say sure this is what it's gonna be
24. 00:01:55 Yeah, I love that you measure time in books
25. 00:01:58 Books I'll have into books nude daily routines kind of like little kids like three big sleeps still my birthday
26. 00:02:06 Yes, yes, because the little sleeps don't count. Yes
27. 00:02:10 Also when you said at the beginning that you don't have a new daily routine
28. 00:02:15 But there's the thought of the daily routine that reminded me of you've got mail oh when I
29. 00:02:21 Always can never remember her character's name Meg Ryan
30. 00:02:25 her character in the movie is having dinner with at that point her boyfriend and
31. 00:02:32 There she walks out of the movie theater. They go grab dinner
32. 00:02:36 He admits that he likes somebody else and then she says the same thing and he asks her
33. 00:02:42 Is there somebody else and she's like no, but there's the thought of somebody else
34. 00:02:45 That's Joe with his
35. 00:02:50 So true the thought of a daily routine that is functional nice that that sounds glorious right now
36. 00:02:59 Cool, how about you you got a handful of things not just daily routine type stuff
37. 00:03:04 I do so I mentioned the I'll start with the easy one the do not disturb sign
38. 00:03:08 I actually have that it's on my door right now says please do not disturb big red X on the other side
39. 00:03:15 It has a green check mark welcome. Please knock before you would come in and
40. 00:03:20 It came in a two pack
41. 00:03:22 So I have one on each side of the door to remind myself as I'm going to leave the office that I need to turn it over
42. 00:03:28 On the other side
43. 00:03:30 To make sure that it's nice. It's accurate
44. 00:03:32 That's a good way to do that because in theory you could always look over there and see what's currently on the other side of the door
45. 00:03:38 Yeah, I don't turn them over at the same time usually
46. 00:03:41 But seeing it as I'm leaving my office as a reminder that yeah, there's one on the front that I should sure I should update basically
47. 00:03:47 so this will be the real test because
48. 00:03:50 There are piano lessons going on upstairs, so people have to be quiet upstairs usually when that happens
49. 00:03:56 It's go in the basement and be crazy
50. 00:03:58 But I'm recording in the basement
51. 00:04:01 So the red hue light at the top of the stairs is on and the red do not disturb
52. 00:04:06 Door hanger is in front so hopefully no one will come into my office while we are
53. 00:04:12 Recording this and this will be a lot easier for Toby to edit the last episode
54. 00:04:16 That last one was rough good job Toby
55. 00:04:20 Yeah, we're joking about that before we hit record
56. 00:04:23 He left in a few of the the drill noises because you had some comedic timing on some of them
57. 00:04:30 And he was pretty proud of that that edit but well done, sir. The other ones go for walks
58. 00:04:36 Have been doing this I mentioned I think last episode I joined a
59. 00:04:40 co-working space downtown Appleton and that's where I like to do my walks because there's this trail right by the river
60. 00:04:47 So I like going down there and walking that trail working from the co-working space
61. 00:04:51 It's kind of a different energy and it's nice to get out of the house every once in a while
62. 00:04:55 The other ones simplify my life. I have started this not much progress here
63. 00:05:02 I don't have anything I have cut out of my schedule
64. 00:05:05 I did sign up for
65. 00:05:07 And I'm blanking on this guy's name. We read the the book the minimalist home Joshua Becker. Yeah, he's got a uncluttered
66. 00:05:14 Course that I signed up for so Rachel and I are gonna go through that, but she doesn't know it yet
67. 00:05:20 I
68. 00:05:22 Know it shall be all about this though. This is kind of her her thing. I'm the hoarder in our relationship
69. 00:05:28 She's just like clean stuff out and I'm gonna throw away all this stuff and like what no you can't give that up
70. 00:05:32 So, yeah, I'm sure she'll be should be all about this
71. 00:05:35 one accidental
72. 00:05:38 follow-up thing that you made me do from a couple episodes ago you
73. 00:05:42 Inspired me to start walking around my house. Yep, so I did that and I noticed my house was disgusting
74. 00:05:48 So all day on Saturday last week. I power washed my house
75. 00:05:53 Dancer
76. 00:05:55 Now it is pristine and peaceful to set outside on our our deck again. I didn't even really
77. 00:06:03 Realize how nasty it was till I started walking around it every day and then I saw it. Yep now. It's clean
78. 00:06:09 So thank you. Yep. I think that's a win. That's I mean, that's a big piece of why I do it
79. 00:06:16 Like I want to know what changes over time like what is starting to grow in places? It shouldn't be yeah
80. 00:06:22 What am I yet to take care of? Yeah, so that that happened
81. 00:06:26 That Saturday, I had other plans for that Saturday, but that's okay. Sorry. I ruined it. I got done
82. 00:06:33 It's all right, so that's follow-up you ready to jump into today's book
83. 00:06:40 I think we better this could be a long one this could so this is the extended mind
84. 00:06:46 The power of thinking outside the brain by Annie Murphy Paul
85. 00:06:51 There are three parts to this book, but I'm not gonna say this is your standard productivity type book
86. 00:06:58 I feel like these if there was ever a book that justified its three parts. It's this one
87. 00:07:03 Yeah, there's I mean we of course rag on three part books, but there are a number of cases where it makes perfect sense and
88. 00:07:11 It should be a three-part book and it's
89. 00:07:14 validated in this one. Yeah, so there are nine chapters
90. 00:07:18 We're gonna try to go through them all I think because they're all relevant. They're all good
91. 00:07:23 There's big ideas and in all of them, but they're broken down three chapters per part part one is thinking with our bodies
92. 00:07:29 Part two is thinking with our surroundings part three is thinking with our relationships and then in the conclusion
93. 00:07:37 I'm not sure if you noticed this she has principles for mind extending and they are again broken into three parts and three
94. 00:07:45 principles they don't match up perfectly with these these parts like it's not the same blanket term title that she's
95. 00:07:52 Using but they align very well. So she has done tons of research and condensed it down very well
96. 00:07:59 Into a very approachable book on a very complicated topic. I would would argue
97. 00:08:04 I mean it it's a case where there's a lot of neuroscience and studies and research and stuff that is
98. 00:08:11 Talked about within this book. So having read a lot of books that involve neuroscience at this point
99. 00:08:18 We know that there's something about the number three and the human brain like we know that so it makes perfect
100. 00:08:25 Logic in this case that she is taking three parts three chapters per part and sticking with that because
101. 00:08:32 There's obviously like some research and science used in the layout and setup of the book itself
102. 00:08:39 Alongside the research has talked about within the content of that book. So
103. 00:08:43 Obviously, there's a lot of thought gone into this one. Yes, absolutely
104. 00:08:49 Let's start with actually the introduction. I just want to real briefly call out something here because
105. 00:08:56 You've heard probably our brain is like a computer our brain is like a muscle
106. 00:09:00 She makes the argument right at the beginning that our brain is like a magpie
107. 00:09:04 Yes, do you know what a magpie is or did you know what a magpie was before reading this book?
108. 00:09:10 Yeah, I had no idea obnoxious
109. 00:09:12 Okay, nuisance in some it's kind of like crows like they are like from the same
110. 00:09:18 What is that subspecies? I don't know what the technical is for that
111. 00:09:22 But they're from the same little family and tax on them. They're considered a nuisance bird. Okay. Yeah, I had I had no idea
112. 00:09:31 but magpies apparently are nuisance birds that build nests out of whatever they can find and
113. 00:09:37 The analogy she's making at the beginning here is that that's what our brains do
114. 00:09:41 they weave bits and pieces that they find into our
115. 00:09:44 trains of thought and
116. 00:09:47 So it's a very compelling argument right at the beginning for getting better at thinking outside of our our brains because there's all this
117. 00:09:56 Junk that you could could be building your nest with with your magpie brain
118. 00:10:01 If you're not careful and that we've talked about a lot of different times that there's more information that we have to deal with
119. 00:10:07 than ever before it comes at us faster, it's more specialized and
120. 00:10:12 It just makes sense that you would look outside your brain to what are the factors that are
121. 00:10:19 Impacting what is going on inside of your brain? I did not realize that the title of this book kind of comes from a
122. 00:10:28 Paper called the extended mind one of the people that inspired or wrote that paper is Andy Clark who in
123. 00:10:35 1997 left his computer on the train
124. 00:10:39 Realizing that oh no, I have left part of my brain on the train
125. 00:10:44 Which that is interesting to me 1997 the laptop, but as we'll probably talk about it some point here in this episode
126. 00:10:52 I immediately jumped to those connected note-taking apps like say obsidian
127. 00:10:58 and
128. 00:11:00 I think an argument could be made for
129. 00:11:03 pros versus cons with that but as it pertains to this book
130. 00:11:07 I think she would say that that's a completely valid approach to have something
131. 00:11:13 Whether it's an application a device a notebook index cards whatever if you
132. 00:11:18 analogs that'll cast in guy go for it
133. 00:11:21 But having some sort of scaffolding for thinking outside of your brain probably makes you a better thinker overall
134. 00:11:27 It's so fat and because I knew you were gonna make this connection like if no
135. 00:11:31 Coming from the time I saw the title of the book. It's like oh, okay. Well, guess what's coming up
136. 00:11:37 And I knew that two weeks ago and
137. 00:11:42 Yet as I went through it there were a lot of places where I
138. 00:11:46 Felt like she was arguing against that model. So that's that's my bias that was
139. 00:11:53 Coming out in the way that she sure put this together
140. 00:11:56 So we'll see how that turns out as we get to those specific points, but you're absolutely right like having something
141. 00:12:03 Outside of your mind is like a superpower. I will say at the beginning here
142. 00:12:09 This introduction part I probably thought this is gonna pop up all over the place now
143. 00:12:14 We've making all sorts of notes and points about connecting things inside of a graph view inside of obsidian
144. 00:12:20 I think there was one other spot where I I jotted something down
145. 00:12:24 Pertaining to that so she would probably say it's valuable
146. 00:12:27 But it's not the be all end all maybe that some people make it out to be
147. 00:12:30 Which I would like to think that is my approach
148. 00:12:35 Maybe that's not how it comes across when I talk about it because I do see the value in it
149. 00:12:41 But I also think it's one part of a larger system
150. 00:12:43 So this whole book has really got me thinking about the larger system of where do the ideas come from and how do they get managed?
151. 00:12:52 And yeah, I use obsidian for a good chunk of playing with those
152. 00:12:55 But there are lots of things that you can do to get better ideas even before you get to like the capture phase
153. 00:13:02 When you get into well, let's just jump into this first section here because thinking with our bodies
154. 00:13:06 This is one way that you can do that. I think there's a three chapters here. Let's go in order
155. 00:13:12 So first chapter is thinking with sensations
156. 00:13:15 the concept of interoception
157. 00:13:18 comes up here which is an awareness of the inner state of the body and
158. 00:13:23 Interoception leads perfectly into the whole concept of mindfulness meditation
159. 00:13:31 In fact, she flat out says that that increases interoceptive ability
160. 00:13:35 So this is where my first action item comes in
161. 00:13:39 So so the moment we get into the content of the book and we're past the introduction Mike has an action item
162. 00:13:46 All right action item that I don't like because it's popped up over and over again, and I
163. 00:13:51 Can't get it to stick so my action item literally says
164. 00:13:55 meditate for reals
165. 00:13:58 exclamation point
166. 00:14:00 With a Z. I hope with a Z
167. 00:14:01 Yeah, so
168. 00:14:04 This okay the reason this keeps coming up is every time I hear about it in a new context
169. 00:14:10 I feel like there's something else that I had not
170. 00:14:14 Realized about this that appears valuable to me the point that she makes in this chapter is
171. 00:14:22 Basically that your brain is pulling in all this information from all over the place
172. 00:14:27 I am recognizing through the action item of trying to simplify my life
173. 00:14:32 There are things that I'm involved with which if I was just gonna cut out all the negative stuff
174. 00:14:37 I'm I don't want to be in a situation where I feel a certain way anymore
175. 00:14:42 I would love to be able to do that, but I can't do that so I have I
176. 00:14:47 Recognize now like certain things coming at me that I don't want to stick and I think I let them stick
177. 00:14:55 Because I don't practice this mindfulness and you don't have to use a certain app for this this inner receptive awareness
178. 00:15:02 This is something where you just kind of recognize what you're feeling and why you kind of name it
179. 00:15:07 And that's how she kind of described this mindfulness meditation is like you see the things that are there for
180. 00:15:13 What they really are and that's where the the value comes from and I'm recognizing that I
181. 00:15:22 Hang on to stuff. I need to let it go and I'm hoping this will help me just kind of recognize
182. 00:15:28 Oh, that's there. Well now we can move on. This is I'm gonna make a weird connection here
183. 00:15:33 Let's let's go into Christian prayer. Okay, so a lot of times people will talk about how
184. 00:15:40 their daily prayer time is
185. 00:15:43 one of the most important parts of their day and it's not because of the like that yes
186. 00:15:49 It's because of the connection with with God and a higher power to go down that road
187. 00:15:54 But at the same time what they're saying is during that period when you're praying you have to
188. 00:15:59 Reflect and think about all the things that are going on in life and then either verbally or mentally
189. 00:16:06 Call out what's wrong? What's right?
190. 00:16:10 What is it you need and you have to?
191. 00:16:15 articulate that in some form or another so you're going through the process of thinking about your life or the lives of the people around you the
192. 00:16:23 People who matter to you and then putting a name or a term to
193. 00:16:26 either a
194. 00:16:29 good thing or a negative thing or a desire that you would like for yourself or them and
195. 00:16:35 By doing that you're able to then think about
196. 00:16:40 What is going on like it is that mindfulness process like you're able to term what's happening now?
197. 00:16:46 The whole letting it go part isn't connected to that
198. 00:16:50 technically
199. 00:16:51 but that's where the process of
200. 00:16:54 If you take meditation the way a lot of people do it
201. 00:16:58 You're trying to clear your mind and when thoughts come into your mind you're letting them go and then trying to keep a clear mind
202. 00:17:04 During that process that's not easy like the first time you do that you realize how many thousands of thoughts
203. 00:17:10 bump into your head like every ten seconds like it's just ridiculous and
204. 00:17:14 Trying to clear all of that is very very difficult
205. 00:17:18 but whenever you start the process and get used to
206. 00:17:22 Letting things out of your mind as they come in letting those thoughts go as they happen
207. 00:17:27 It then carries over into other areas like what she's talking about here
208. 00:17:31 It's like you're able to then see things that happen to you and let it go and then make a choice as to what you're going to do about that
209. 00:17:38 Without it impacting your mental state like that's essentially what you're
210. 00:17:43 Shooting for at least one side of it. There's a lot more to it of course, but that's one aspect of it
211. 00:17:50 I don't do this. I've done it in the past, but I
212. 00:17:54 There are other areas of this book
213. 00:17:57 We'll talk about that I think are part of this and are connected to this in some ways
214. 00:18:04 But I'm not gonna go there yet sure but I could see why you want to bring this up yet again
215. 00:18:10 Do we need to do like another whole book on meditation now? No, I don't think so
216. 00:18:14 But maybe if you want us to talk about it go vote for something
217. 00:18:19 I don't know 10% happier. Sure, but she she changed these things together in a way that makes a lot of sense for me
218. 00:18:26 she says that traditional thinking something happens and
219. 00:18:31 the brain chooses the appropriate emotion based on the thing that happens and then that
220. 00:18:37 influences what we do and that's wrong she says reality is that something happens and
221. 00:18:44 Then we act so we get to choose
222. 00:18:48 How we respond with our action and after that the brain puts the pieces together and fires the emotion
223. 00:18:56 So if I can recognize this thing is happening step one and this is what I'm going to do about it
224. 00:19:03 Maybe I don't have to let the emotions
225. 00:19:06 Run wild and then I have to try to get that that wild horse back inside the defense
226. 00:19:12 Sure, so that's that's the the new part of this that made sense to me is oh my influence meditation
227. 00:19:22 I recognize this thing happened and I choose not to get stressed out about it
228. 00:19:27 I activate maybe cognitive repraisal she talks about in this chapter where you're ascribing new meanings to actions
229. 00:19:34 So one example she gave is I'm feeling very nervous about
230. 00:19:40 Presentation I have to give well
231. 00:19:42 I could reframe that instead of nervousness as excitement and now that's a positive feeling and I don't dread that feeling anymore
232. 00:19:51 I don't think it's quite that simple
233. 00:19:54 But I like that idea. I bet it could be it could be yeah hard part of that though
234. 00:19:59 Like the the reframing part to me. That's the easy piece. Maybe it's hard for some
235. 00:20:05 But it's not gonna instantly change your mindset at least not the first time but over time it will
236. 00:20:10 But the hardest part about that is realizing that you're nervous
237. 00:20:14 Yeah, acknowledging that like that to me is the hard part like just being able to say this is what I'm feeling right now
238. 00:20:21 Like think about the name of this chapter thinking with sensations a lot of what she gets to like she shows some research about like how people
239. 00:20:28 Work could sense what was going on and they could measure that the person could sense
240. 00:20:32 Which deck of cards had positive rewards and which ones had negative rewards, but they could measure
241. 00:20:38 The sensations in your fingers
242. 00:20:41 Faster than you could articulate what was going on and that there even was a pattern your fingers were a pattern
243. 00:20:46 But you didn't like you couldn't express that
244. 00:20:48 So being able to express it is the hard part in this case. Yeah, I don't know what exactly to expect from this
245. 00:20:56 But this is right in the first chapter right so already I feel like I've got my money's worth from this book
246. 00:21:03 Well, let's move on to the next chapter because we got lots of them thinking with movement as soon as I read this title
247. 00:21:09 I thought of Joe Bueleg and in his walks around his property
248. 00:21:14 The basic idea here is that we think better when we're moving one thing that I liked from this section
249. 00:21:21 I think I sort of understood this before but she articulates everything really really well with lots of great stories and lots of great
250. 00:21:28 Science if you want to dig into all the research
251. 00:21:30 But fidgeting can help you think better and why is that I have always kind of been a fidgeter
252. 00:21:38 It drives some people crazy. I've kind of learned to control it
253. 00:21:43 So like my I'll just bounce my knee like on the chair underneath my desk
254. 00:21:47 No one will see that but I've done this for as long as I can remember and
255. 00:21:53 What that does when you are fidgeting she gave it a name that I didn't realize before it's embodied self regulation
256. 00:22:01 So I guess the big takeaway from this is you are
257. 00:22:07 controlling something in your environment you are forcing yourself to do low intensity movement
258. 00:22:15 Which increases your focus and your productivity and there are
259. 00:22:18 Cognitive benefits that are associated with that. I move all the time
260. 00:22:22 Drives people crazy. I have a you're talking about bouncing your knee and stuff. I have a it's a flippy chain is what it's called
261. 00:22:30 that I keep in my pocket at all times and
262. 00:22:34 This silly little thing I keep it in my pocket because it's small and it lays flat that way
263. 00:22:39 it doesn't look like some big massive something and
264. 00:22:42 whenever I'm
265. 00:22:45 Walking or it doesn't seem to matter like a lot of times. I've got that thing out or I have it in my pocket
266. 00:22:52 And I'm just you know flipping it over and such so I have that thing around at all times
267. 00:22:56 I've got what is it one two three four five six eight
268. 00:23:02 Different fidget toys sitting here on my desk
269. 00:23:04 And yeah, I'll have yep
270. 00:23:09 I've got one here
271. 00:23:10 I've like constantly playing with a pen like always got something in my fingers and
272. 00:23:15 like this is where ADHD actually came up a few times in this book which I was not expecting and
273. 00:23:22 she's referencing
274. 00:23:25 What is going on and why?
275. 00:23:27 ADHD people do certain things and she's spot-on
276. 00:23:32 with those so
277. 00:23:34 Kudos on that but one thing like thinking with movement she refers to people who would do walks
278. 00:23:40 doctors who would review
279. 00:23:43 Images while on a treadmill and they were more accurate and diagnosing things like there's a whole bunch
280. 00:23:49 Yeah, that goes on with this and
281. 00:23:51 It made me think about our middle daughter so Rose who is
282. 00:23:58 Kind of struggling with school stuff especially math and
283. 00:24:02 Seems to be fighting quite a few things with school and
284. 00:24:07 She has some things that she picks up on very quickly and other things
285. 00:24:11 It just overhead and it doesn't seem to register at all and it made me wonder about like maybe I should get her to go
286. 00:24:18 Go for a quick run before she comes back and does school or
287. 00:24:22 Take something with her and do it while she's walking out in the trails or something like I don't know what that is
288. 00:24:27 But getting her to move while she's doing something maybe that would help out with some of that helping her to retain that
289. 00:24:34 Those were some of the pieces I was thinking through so I do have an action item with this one
290. 00:24:39 I've just kind of walked through that with Becky and see you know, maybe there's something there that would help her
291. 00:24:44 With some of her school stuff, so I like that one of the things that stood out to me shares your
292. 00:24:51 Review yeah traditionally we've believed that we should use breaks to rest the body
293. 00:24:57 But that's actually wrong back to your action item and
294. 00:25:01 students who incorporated movement remembered
295. 00:25:05 76% of material compared to only 37% without was was one study that she she shared there and that makes a
296. 00:25:13 Lot of sense. I'm trying to figure out how I can do that more and like you said
297. 00:25:18 It's not just the knowledge work piece of this where my brain instantly went was
298. 00:25:23 If I could figure out how to have walking meetings, I feel like they would be much more effective
299. 00:25:29 Not quite sure how to do that yet because every time I've tried it
300. 00:25:33 I'm walking around some someplace and then like if I were to
301. 00:25:36 As I do my walks around downtown if I were to do that in a meeting people would you like the trucks on the street and stuff
302. 00:25:43 Like that as I'm getting to the path and oh, what was that?
303. 00:25:45 You know, it's distracting. You just you don't want to don't want to put people in that that situation
304. 00:25:50 So I don't have an answer to that yet
305. 00:25:52 But that's where I'm thinking the other thing that I really liked about this is she flat out calls out
306. 00:25:57 Taking a break to check news or social media. That's the worst thing that you can do
307. 00:26:02 Because that engages the brain region the same brain regions and uses the same mental capacity that you
308. 00:26:10 Use when you're doing your your cognitive work. So it's not really a break at all
309. 00:26:14 So don't do that don't do that
310. 00:26:16 But I have done that also toxic so stop
311. 00:26:20 Oh, yes, stay off the news nothing good happens in the news. Yeah, it's not news for me
312. 00:26:28 I think I have traditionally used those breaks as the time that I would check Twitter
313. 00:26:33 Which is social media so maybe you got to figure out a different way to to do that
314. 00:26:39 I don't know. I'm still thinking that over I don't have an action
315. 00:26:42 I'm associated with that specifically, but the next chapter is thinking with gesture
316. 00:26:46 Essentially talk with your hands
317. 00:26:49 2019 studies showed that company founders who master gestures were 12% more likely to get funding which is kind of interesting
318. 00:26:57 I thought that was fascinating. Oh, if I move my hands around and squat up and down while I'm talking
319. 00:27:04 Hey, guess what I'll get more money. Yeah, exactly. It's not a huge percentage
320. 00:27:08 So kind of it's like well, maybe they're just better
321. 00:27:12 Communicators, maybe there's other aspects of communication that they're better at but I don't think that's really the case
322. 00:27:19 I think if you gestures are obviously a big part of communication. Yeah, maybe there's a little bit of bleed over but I
323. 00:27:26 Don't know I've I've for my first thought was to kind of discount that statistic and then more I thought about it
324. 00:27:32 Like no it it's valid and then also
325. 00:27:35 12% doesn't seem like a lot but when you're talking about whether you're going to get millions of dollars of funding or not
326. 00:27:42 That's you're gonna do everything in your power to to make sure that that the chips fall in your favor
327. 00:27:48 so this is
328. 00:27:50 Not an insignificant lever that you could pull yeah
329. 00:27:54 I could get ten million dollars or eleven million dollars if I move my hands around a lot like that's what we're talking about so
330. 00:27:59 Move your hands around a lot. That's what we're saying. Yeah
331. 00:28:04 But it's not just like it's not simply
332. 00:28:07 Move around like it's it's intentional gesturing like whenever you're talking about something true really wide spread your arms out
333. 00:28:15 when you're talking about something tall put your hand up above your head like you have these things that you can do and
334. 00:28:20 It does help even with kids like if you're able to talk through things with kids and use gestures that make sense to them
335. 00:28:28 Like it can help them as well. It's just a social thing
336. 00:28:32 But at the same time it does help you process your own thoughts better as well
337. 00:28:38 So there's that piece of it too. So use gestures. That's that's what I got from this
338. 00:28:44 I don't really know how to take that as an action item, but don't sit on your hands
339. 00:28:49 Well one way that you could apply it would be
340. 00:28:53 For all of the video stuff that you do and I'm talking to the general you at this point not you specifically Joe Buleg
341. 00:29:01 But if you do stuff on video make sure that you incorporate
342. 00:29:04 some sort of gestures into
343. 00:29:07 Your video communication. I was forced to do this a couple years ago when I started doing some of the talking head videos for the sweet setup
344. 00:29:16 With like the mastering mind maps course that we put together and obviously the obsidian one the whole PKM section
345. 00:29:23 I shot that here in my office and so I remember the first time that I did it
346. 00:29:28 I felt really really awkward
347. 00:29:30 Recording it at in Kansas City and Sean and Isaac are there watching me do it
348. 00:29:38 And I feel like they're just watching me make a fool of myself with my hands because my gestures aren't really lining up
349. 00:29:43 It was really it kind of threw me from the from what I was trying to
350. 00:29:50 Present off of the the scripts and so we had to do it a couple of times
351. 00:29:55 But it really wasn't that big a deal. I remember Isaac and Sean were kind of impressed because we were able to get through it
352. 00:30:03 basically two takes of each script and we had set aside like four hours student we got it done in two and
353. 00:30:09 I was thinking about that afterwards and I made the connection that the gestures
354. 00:30:16 Maybe contributed to me being able to read off of the scripts
355. 00:30:22 Effectively and obviously the scripts. I'm writing them myself. So it's not somebody just feeding me something. This is
356. 00:30:29 Stuff that I've written in the first place
357. 00:30:31 I've internalized these these concepts and kind of what I've discovered is at the scripts being on the teleprompter
358. 00:30:37 That allows me to ad lib a little bit because I know what is coming
359. 00:30:41 But I have been trying to get better with my gestures as I do each of these courses on video
360. 00:30:48 And I feel like I am getting better and I can get through most of those scripts now in a single take
361. 00:30:53 Nice and so when she says people who gesture as they teach on videos speak more fluently and articulately and make less mistakes
362. 00:31:01 I was like, oh
363. 00:31:02 That's kind of what happened
364. 00:31:04 Yeah, when you're doing it on screen though, like you also have to keep in mind
365. 00:31:09 Like how wide the camera can see it's true. Yep, that's why
366. 00:31:14 So many of us make sure there's like a spot monitor or something where we can see ourselves
367. 00:31:18 Because if I'm spreading my hands out and trying to show something wide
368. 00:31:22 Like if you ever see me do that on screen
369. 00:31:24 You see me stop with my hands at the edge of the screen
370. 00:31:27 Yeah
371. 00:31:27 If I were to do it and we were in person and having a conversation my arms are gonna go full length
372. 00:31:31 But you can't see my hands when I do that on screen because the camera is so close
373. 00:31:36 So there's like the whole awareness of what the other person can see on screen
374. 00:31:41 That's why you need to be able to see yourself on the screen when you're doing this
375. 00:31:44 That's my vote some people say you should never watch yourself like no that is wrong. You should always see yourself
376. 00:31:49 I agree with that. Yeah, cool. The next section
377. 00:31:54 here is
378. 00:31:56 Part two thinking with our surroundings the first chapter in this section is thinking with
379. 00:32:02 natural spaces
380. 00:32:04 Basically get out in nature and you'll think better
381. 00:32:08 Yeah, some startling statistics in here by the way on average
382. 00:32:11 We only spend seven percent of our time outside most Americans report spending
383. 00:32:17 less than five hours outside per week 60 percent of Americans and
384. 00:32:22 Even though when you get out in nature there is more information
385. 00:32:28 That is being thrown at you she makes the argument in this chapter that your brain is built to handle that type of
386. 00:32:36 Information it's there's two different kinds of attention
387. 00:32:39 There's passive attention and then there's voluntary attention
388. 00:32:42 So the passive attention that you give the effortless stuff the floats from topic to topic like that's the that's the kind that's evoked
389. 00:32:49 By nature and the voluntary attention. This is the one that takes effort
390. 00:32:52 It has to constantly be directed and the example she gives here is like navigating an urban environment
391. 00:32:57 So if we get out of nature we can make this a lot easier on ourselves
392. 00:33:03 Do I really need to say anything here you could probably guess what I'm gonna say there's lots of different things that she suggests here from
393. 00:33:10 Having windows to green plants in your office
394. 00:33:14 So I don't know is there anything specific that
395. 00:33:18 You wanted to do about this or is just going outside for your walks every day. That's enough for you
396. 00:33:26 I think well given how much time I'm able to spend out
397. 00:33:30 I mean even simple things like I need to go molyard like well that means I'm gonna be outside for three hours if I'm going to
398. 00:33:38 Go feed the cats well guess what I'm going outside and it's gonna take me 15 minutes to do that because of the distance to walk to and from
399. 00:33:46 The places so like me trying to make sure I have extra time to go outside like I don't think that's gonna be necessary
400. 00:33:53 Especially after we move but something that this
401. 00:33:57 Had me like processing and I don't know if I've worked through this on bookworm before but the
402. 00:34:02 The history that I have with being outside is that like I grew up in areas where there were thousands of acres
403. 00:34:09 around us there were miles of
404. 00:34:12 Timber and all sorts of nature that was around us. It was not built up at all as my father-in-law
405. 00:34:19 affectionately says it's not the end of the world, but you can see it from there and
406. 00:34:23 It's it's always out there, but that's what I grew up with well
407. 00:34:28 Then ended up moving up near the Twin Cities and working in corporate over the span of a few years after that and
408. 00:34:34 I didn't realize it until a couple years into that that my stress levels were slowly ratcheting up over time and
409. 00:34:43 Even Becky has commented that even lately since being able to work on a house and being outside
410. 00:34:52 regularly those stress levels have been coming down quickly despite the fact that we're building a massive remodel on a very tight time frame so
411. 00:35:00 It doesn't make sense, but yet it seems to make sense now. I can't give you
412. 00:35:07 All of the why behind that is to what causes that other than
413. 00:35:12 something to do with the background noise and
414. 00:35:15 What's around us and built structures not allowing your brain to calm down like there's something along the way?
415. 00:35:22 Those lines which she tries to get into somewhat here, but I I think I can put a lot of pieces together
416. 00:35:29 But there's not like a this is what causes that
417. 00:35:32 Scenario so anyway go outside. That's what I continually say
418. 00:35:37 Yeah, there is a whole aspect of this
419. 00:35:40 I think if you and I are in different situations, maybe there's a different conversation that we have about this about
420. 00:35:47 I'm gonna bring some plants to my cubicle or something
421. 00:35:49 Yeah, because she does kind of talk about that. She's got this whole term bio
422. 00:35:54 Phyllic design which is incorporating nature into homeschools and workplaces
423. 00:35:58 But I can get outside. I don't live out in the country as much as you do
424. 00:36:05 But even so in my suburban neighborhood the trail that I go for a run-on
425. 00:36:11 It goes out into the country. There's like this tree bridge that you go under and as it's just starting to
426. 00:36:19 get to fall some of the leaves are starting to turn it's my favorite spot and
427. 00:36:25 I'm out there multiple times a week
428. 00:36:29 So I don't have to go very far to to get to it
429. 00:36:32 But I don't think that's true for for everybody. No, no not at all. I wish it was. Yeah
430. 00:36:37 Yeah, me too, but that does kind of lead into the next chapter chapter five is thinking with built spaces
431. 00:36:43 So this is kind of where she's making the case that we should pay attention to the space that we live and work and
432. 00:36:52 At the beginning she says that our culture doesn't hold our
433. 00:36:56 environment in high regard and thoughtful design takes time and money so
434. 00:37:04 People just kind of disregard it and all just make it work
435. 00:37:08 Plus I don't want to work with an architect or designer because I know somebody who was an architect or designer and they were hard to work with
436. 00:37:15 So I'm just gonna avoid that whole thing not me personally like that's the argument. She's saying
437. 00:37:19 She actually says architects and designers themselves are part of the problem with this
438. 00:37:23 Nice good job team, but I like this chapter. I think the easy summation of this is
439. 00:37:33 think about
440. 00:37:35 your environment think about
441. 00:37:37 the pictures that you hang on the wall in your office, which I didn't kind of realize I was doing this as I
442. 00:37:45 Finished off this office where I'm recording this right now
443. 00:37:48 This is in the basement of my house, but I kind of intentionally chose every single aspect of this the colors
444. 00:37:56 I really like the specific pictures that are hanging on the wall. I've got all the fractures of the projects that I've
445. 00:38:03 Done hanging there. I've got the the pen case which we've talked about that before like the pens that are in there
446. 00:38:09 The majority of them are associated with me shipping a project or doing something and that's a celebration
447. 00:38:16 So I can look at that kind of like a trophy case
448. 00:38:19 most of the books on the bookshelf behind me are books that we have read so again a little bit of a trophy case and
449. 00:38:27 it makes
450. 00:38:30 Entering into this space and doing the work here a lot easier
451. 00:38:36 But I never really thought about why I was doing all that stuff is just oh, I like this. I'm gonna put it here
452. 00:38:41 Yeah, it's it's a big deal
453. 00:38:43 I know whenever you're putting together what that space is and and knowing how much space you have
454. 00:38:49 For that she gets into that one quite a bit like the whole
455. 00:38:53 Offices with walls into open plan like that's a big part of this
456. 00:38:58 This chapter having worked in both. I know that I don't really like either for a variety of reasons and
457. 00:39:05 end up with a weird like big
458. 00:39:08 Office that people sometimes come in and work inside here. I don't know. It's kind of weird, but one of the things that
459. 00:39:15 And this was a very minor point in this chapter and I don't know why it stood out to me
460. 00:39:21 But there was a point she made that music
461. 00:39:24 Imperes performance. Yeah, and like this is a known right if you're listening to rock music generally
462. 00:39:31 There's so much going on with it that it makes it hard for you to focus on especially creative work
463. 00:39:34 So it's generally not recommended. This is why there are things like brain.fm that will allow you to do like the background
464. 00:39:44 noises that aren't actually
465. 00:39:46 Music per se there are ways to do this but
466. 00:39:51 Generally noise in your headphones is not what you want and
467. 00:39:56 I use noise kind of intentionally there instead of music, but I think that there's
468. 00:40:01 Maybe something to this I I have for a long time
469. 00:40:05 Been someone who whenever I get into a vehicle especially if I'm borrowing a vehicle from somebody and they have the radio on that my instinct
470. 00:40:12 Is it turn it off? I I don't know for years. I have just whenever I go somewhere. I drive in silence all the time
471. 00:40:19 That's what I do drives people crazy and I have had people hop in my car to go somewhere and they're like
472. 00:40:26 What where does your radio not work like oh it works? I think but I don't ever turn it on
473. 00:40:33 So they'll ask me this question sometimes so some people are uncomfortable with that
474. 00:40:38 I have found but as an uber or Lyft driver would would be a
475. 00:40:43 entertaining
476. 00:40:46 An entertaining interaction for sure
477. 00:40:48 It's true just silent in the car anyway, that's what I do but built spaces
478. 00:40:56 Yes, I mean there are a lot of ways that you can put together a workspace or an office and such
479. 00:41:00 You know there's it in the past whenever I worked corporate at one point
480. 00:41:05 They had me on a desk that was about three and a half feet wide
481. 00:41:08 That was all the space I had and then right next to me was somebody else with their three and a half feet
482. 00:41:13 And on the other side it was somebody else with their three and a half feet. It's like come on. That would be miserable. Yeah
483. 00:41:19 So many things that go wrong with that
484. 00:41:23 I mean I understand the concept where like we can collaborate and we can work on things together
485. 00:41:28 It's like yes at times but most of the time. I'm not doing that so
486. 00:41:34 Anyway, right it's not universal shouldn't be I'm glad you brought up walls because she talks about those in this chapter
487. 00:41:42 But they're not always a bad thing
488. 00:41:44 They she says they were designed to protect us from the cognitive load of having to keep track of the activities of strangers
489. 00:41:53 and I
490. 00:41:55 See this as I read that I was thinking back to
491. 00:41:59 Working at the the co-working space
492. 00:42:01 Fortunately the one that I joined there's a couple people who have private offices
493. 00:42:05 There's one other person who works from there sometimes as the most of the time
494. 00:42:10 I have the place to myself
495. 00:42:12 Nice, but when I am there I
496. 00:42:16 Recognize that I'm paying attention to what he's doing
497. 00:42:20 We don't have like call booze that you can pop in when you take a call
498. 00:42:25 and it's I knew that going into it, but there's like you go up in the front and
499. 00:42:29 Pop in your headphones and you take a call and that's kind of the expectations of the space like that's accepted
500. 00:42:37 Behavior it's part of the culture of the the space and noise levels yadda yadda
501. 00:42:42 Every space has their their own way of functioning, but this is not like a
502. 00:42:46 Academic library where you're expected to work in silence. I knew that going into it
503. 00:42:51 But I still was kind of surprised how he's taking a call. I'm writing an article pretty soon
504. 00:42:56 I'm paying attention to his call
505. 00:42:58 Not that I'm trying to eavesdrop not that I'm even interested in what's going on
506. 00:43:03 But that's where my attention and focus goes and so she kind of explained why that is in this chapter
507. 00:43:09 We're kind of naturally drawn to those
508. 00:43:11 conversational elements the whole social aspect instead of the
509. 00:43:16 The focused work that we're trying to try to get done, but walls can be used
510. 00:43:22 That they can be deployed tactically. Let's say so from my office here
511. 00:43:28 I can't because I don't have any windows. I don't have any natural light going back to the previous chapter
512. 00:43:34 There's nothing nature related in my office
513. 00:43:38 So I'm not gonna come sit here work here for
514. 00:43:42 10 hours in a day
515. 00:43:45 I'm gonna come in here for a short bursts and do focused work and walls can boost creativity by providing privacy and
516. 00:43:54 They let you kind of experiment unobserved. So I can do that here
517. 00:43:59 No one is peeking in because there's literally no way to get in other than the door that is shut that I'm looking at right now
518. 00:44:05 But I can't stay here forever either
519. 00:44:09 So I don't know that as I read this this chapter. I kind of realized the ideal application
520. 00:44:16 For me is use this space probably every day, but probably not all day
521. 00:44:22 And so if I'm not gonna be here all day, where am I going?
522. 00:44:27 I'm not doing work in the rest of the house where the rest of my family is homeschooling
523. 00:44:32 It just doesn't work. So that was kind of an unintended
524. 00:44:37 motivation
525. 00:44:39 Kind of rationalizing after the fact here
526. 00:44:41 I guess as I'm reading this book for why I felt so good about getting out of the house and going downtown
527. 00:44:47 The corking space because I hadn't been doing that for like a year and a half
528. 00:44:52 This is where I worked and I just made it work
529. 00:44:55 And there's only recently that I kind of was thinking like well
530. 00:44:57 What's the best version of this and kind of landed on a combination?
531. 00:45:03 Yeah, the wall thing is I think super interesting because of the way that it's brought up and talked about in that
532. 00:45:12 walls
533. 00:45:13 Allow you to have that private space and the lack of walls allow you to
534. 00:45:17 socialize and connect with other people and
535. 00:45:20 You can see that I'll have to like when we get done with our remodel in the house
536. 00:45:24 I had to take a bunch of good pictures and and
537. 00:45:27 share those because a lot of what we've done is in the community spaces the family room
538. 00:45:34 Kitchen dining kind of living slash piano room is either opened up doorways or taken walls out entirely
539. 00:45:41 So that those are one massive like you can see almost that entire first level save the bathroom
540. 00:45:46 You can see them all from one spot and from just about any other spot in that house
541. 00:45:53 But the moment you go upstairs there are walls all over the place
542. 00:45:58 Because you need that individual private space for a bedroom. Yeah now
543. 00:46:04 I didn't realize that that's kind of the path we were headed down
544. 00:46:08 until I read this chapter and realized oh, yeah
545. 00:46:12 well, we want to be able to socialize and collaborate and talk to each other as a family most of the time
546. 00:46:18 But we still need to be able to go to a private space when needed and you can see that in the way that
547. 00:46:24 We're setting up like the dining kitchen area because like that's kind of where the homeschool stuff will happen
548. 00:46:30 But yet we're setting up a desk for each of the girls in the bedrooms upstairs that way they are able to
549. 00:46:37 Do the communal collaborative homeschool thing together and then go off to their own respective spaces to do their
550. 00:46:44 Work I didn't even it didn't even occur to me that we had designed it that way
551. 00:46:48 It's just this is kind of what is needed given our kids and our family. Yeah, and yet I feel like we've designed that really well just
552. 00:46:55 I'll be it unintentional. Yeah, that's the cool thing about this book. I think is
553. 00:47:01 It's not the first in this
554. 00:47:04 Topic area that we have read so we've kind of been making moves in this direction
555. 00:47:09 But this book does a great job of pointing out why that thing you tried seems to be working. Yeah
556. 00:47:16 Yeah, it creates the motivation to stick with it. It's kind of going back to
557. 00:47:20 Chapter one right being able to articulate what's going on. Yeah, like noticing those sensations and being able to put words to it
558. 00:47:28 Like there are things that just kind of feel right and we we just kind of do and then all of a sudden somebody gives you the terms
559. 00:47:34 For it's like oh
560. 00:47:35 That's why I love blue
561. 00:47:37 Yep, all right next chapter chapter six is
562. 00:47:42 thinking with the space of ideas and
563. 00:47:46 This is the one where we're gonna talk about connected notes
564. 00:47:50 Let's start by talking about Darwin before you do that
565. 00:47:54 I just want to point out this is the one and only chapter in this entire book where this can be put together and like that
566. 00:48:02 You could legitimately bring this topic up and I thought this was what most of the book was gonna be about yeah
567. 00:48:08 Me too, maybe that's just me
568. 00:48:09 I thought this one chapter was gonna be like the bulk of the whole book and yet we have this one little tiny
569. 00:48:15 I don't want to say tiny, but this one little piece of it. Anyway, that said I just needed to get that out there
570. 00:48:21 You are correct and I had the thought after reading this chapter
571. 00:48:25 Maybe I should go into that bibliography and just start downloading some research reports because I do
572. 00:48:31 Want to know more about this particular spot, but even in this like the thinking with the space of ideas
573. 00:48:38 This isn't all
574. 00:48:41 connected notes, but I do want to talk about Darwin because he existed long before obsidian and he said acquire the habit of writing very
575. 00:48:49 Copious notes not all for publication, but as a guide for yourself and I feel like that is a great summary of PKM in general
576. 00:48:58 one of the things that I
577. 00:49:00 Learned about PKM when I was doing the research for the obsidian course
578. 00:49:04 Was that there has to be an output for personal knowledge management?
579. 00:49:08 And when I say personal knowledge management most people think of I dump all these notes inside of obsidian or Rome
580. 00:49:14 And then I make the connections and I see a graph view that is an aspect of personal knowledge management
581. 00:49:19 But your calendar is personal knowledge management knowledge of the appointments that you have today your task manager is personal knowledge management
582. 00:49:28 Knowledge of the things that you need to get done
583. 00:49:30 So there's a whole bunch of different aspects of this that pertain to you thinking about what you should be doing at any given moment
584. 00:49:39 and then the other aspect of that with the
585. 00:49:42 Extracting maximum value from your ideas
586. 00:49:45 This is the part that is fascinating to me and one of the elements of that I discovered is you have to have an output
587. 00:49:51 It doesn't mean it has to be a video that you make a podcast you record or a blog post that you publish
588. 00:49:58 It means that you have to take the information that you receive and
589. 00:50:02 Synthesize it somehow put your own stamp on it
590. 00:50:05 Which is why bookworm is so awesome because we read these books and we can't just say oh well on page whatever
591. 00:50:12 They said this we mentioned that occasionally because we want to riff off of some of the points that they they make
592. 00:50:19 I had somebody asked me one time like can you do you have to do anything?
593. 00:50:25 Like copyright wise for bookworm and it caught me off guard like why would we have to oh because we're talking about the books
594. 00:50:32 Well, we don't really talk about them like summarizing them for somebody sort of like a blinkest sort of a deal
595. 00:50:39 We're engaging in conversation about the ideas that they present and so
596. 00:50:44 99% of the material is our own
597. 00:50:48 Right or critiquing theirs. Yes. Yes, and that that thought never even
598. 00:50:54 Never even occurred to me. So TLD are bringing this back
599. 00:50:59 I would encourage anybody who is reading books listening to podcasts whatever you're taking notes in some way shape or form
600. 00:51:06 Don't just collect the points that somebody else is saying force yourself to think about what this means for you
601. 00:51:12 And then even if the only output is you write an opinion
602. 00:51:15 Summary about what what you have just consumed information wise. That's enough
603. 00:51:21 I can't even tell you the number of times I've gone into one of those MOC notes
604. 00:51:25 And I've collected all the bits and pieces and I'm tossing them around
605. 00:51:28 What does this mean and the moment that I force myself to start typing on the keyboard?
606. 00:51:34 The I crystallized my thoughts about the topic at hand
607. 00:51:39 I remember something you said from a bookworm episode a long time ago, and I don't remember what it was from but thoughts
608. 00:51:44 Disentangle themselves through lips and pencil tips. Yep, clicky keyboards - turns out
609. 00:51:50 I
610. 00:51:52 I'm not sure I would go quite that far. Maybe it would maybe it does I suppose you're externalizing
611. 00:51:58 You're thinking I I know and I knew whenever I saw the space of ideas is the chapter title
612. 00:52:04 I knew this is where you were gonna go with this and
613. 00:52:06 Yet as I was processing this chapter and reading through it
614. 00:52:11 It of course is the process of thinking externally and you know trying to
615. 00:52:16 Put your thoughts together in some form outside of your brain
616. 00:52:20 and
617. 00:52:21 It does go beyond that like she she does dive into
618. 00:52:25 What is the environment for developing ideas as well like she does kind of go into that but I?
619. 00:52:32 wasn't certain because some of the stories and ideas that she shares here involve a lot of
620. 00:52:39 again externalizing your thinking but not on a computer like a lot of those were whiteboards and post-its and
621. 00:52:48 Index cards like that concept was a lot of what was
622. 00:52:51 referred to writing in a notebook like the process of physical movement was a part of those
623. 00:52:57 Going back to chapter two like thinking with movement that piece came up quite a bit here
624. 00:53:03 I don't think it was necessarily intentional. Maybe it was but it did come up quite a bit
625. 00:53:07 So it just kind of made me ask the question
626. 00:53:10 I don't think she would say this but it made me ask if screens count as
627. 00:53:16 part of that space for ideas and
628. 00:53:18 Partially I say that because you can't always see it all at once
629. 00:53:24 unless you have lots of big screens and you have views that allow you to see tons of things all at once and
630. 00:53:30 I'm not saying that that's necessarily required. Obviously, I'm gonna be the skeptic coming at this particular piece
631. 00:53:38 You could see that one coming a mile away
632. 00:53:40 But this is just a thing that it makes me wonder about because I don't do what you're talking about Mike
633. 00:53:47 I spend most of my time processing those things
634. 00:53:49 mentally or
635. 00:53:51 Talking to myself as I'm walking outside like those are the places that I do that type of
636. 00:53:57 connection and
637. 00:54:00 Don't write out my thoughts in
638. 00:54:02 Something like obsidian just because I don't have the time to do that
639. 00:54:08 Especially right now sure if I tried to write out all my thoughts on how I wanted to do things in the house
640. 00:54:13 Like I would spend just as much time typing out my thoughts on how I wanted to do it on the house as opposed to actually doing it
641. 00:54:18 Or trying a few things so I'm not gonna do that it takes too long
642. 00:54:22 so I
643. 00:54:23 applaud the people who have the time to do that and
644. 00:54:26 You know generally it helps people and they talk about the benefits of it
645. 00:54:30 I just don't see that personally because
646. 00:54:35 Obviously I want to be able to see things physically and move them around physically in a lot of cases
647. 00:54:39 Not just clicking a mouse and moving a file around but to me that doesn't seem to equate. Yes. Okay. I'll get off the soap box now
648. 00:54:47 Well, let me respond by sharing two two things number one. I have an action item to think on paper
649. 00:54:54 What so there is are you okay? Yeah, there is definitely an element of truth to what you are talking about
650. 00:55:04 however, the second thing I will say is that there is a
651. 00:55:09 Point on my outline here big
652. 00:55:12 Key idea from what you talked about in this chapter of concept mapping a concept map is visual
653. 00:55:19 representation of facts and ideas and of the relationships between them and yes a concept map could be a
654. 00:55:28 Graph of all those little dots and you could have them color-coded how they link together
655. 00:55:34 but the thing that stood out to me with concept mapping is
656. 00:55:38 What you were talking about taking those things and moving them around the absolute?
657. 00:55:45 Best way I have found to do that the most delightful way
658. 00:55:49 I know is creating a mind map on an iPad and
659. 00:55:54 dragging the nodes around with my finger not my apple pencil of a dude that that sometimes too being able to physically touch the
660. 00:56:02 Idea and move it somewhere else and have it snap into place in a different section of the mind map that is I
661. 00:56:10 Think a very
662. 00:56:12 valid approach to doing this as we are recording this I am waiting for my iPad mini to arrive I
663. 00:56:19 Am so excited about this iPad mini specifically because it's the size of an a5 notebook
664. 00:56:25 My plan is whenever I go anywhere. I'm grabbing my notebook and I'm grabbing my iPad mini
665. 00:56:31 And I don't know yet
666. 00:56:35 How that is going to work?
667. 00:56:37 But that is the dream is that I've got both the analog and the digital and I can use the right tool in the right way
668. 00:56:44 But I think both of them can be used to as you talk about in this chapter think with the space of ideas effectively now can I?
669. 00:56:52 marry a whole bunch of things that I've said and talked about in the past because this chapter made me think about this
670. 00:56:58 Especially since I read this after the apple event. Okay, because I don't own an iPad and
671. 00:57:05 in my world I have never had a legitimate use case for an
672. 00:57:13 iPad however
673. 00:57:15 the mini that you're talking about with the speed that comes with it and
674. 00:57:19 being able to touch and move things around if there's there's one thing that
675. 00:57:26 Would change a lot of this if I could physically write in obsidian and
676. 00:57:32 Interconnect those notes in obsidian that I have handwritten that would change the game that that would change a
677. 00:57:41 Lot of things because then it allows me to physically move and touch and feel
678. 00:57:46 Screen piece of glass, but the representation there being moving those ideas around yeah that I could see
679. 00:57:53 But that feature set doesn't exist yet yet. I think we're close
680. 00:57:58 I mean a lot of those dots are very close to being connected
681. 00:58:02 but we're not there yet and
682. 00:58:04 once that piece is put together once I can write without any lag and
683. 00:58:08 Once I'm able to somehow take those handwritten notes and then do the interconnected piece
684. 00:58:14 Yeah, now we've got a different conversation because that becomes a different feature set that we don't have
685. 00:58:19 Currently and you're able to marry up a lot of what I tend to promote with
686. 00:58:24 pen and paper setups
687. 00:58:26 With the interconnectedness stuff that you're talking about with obsidian like we start to put those two together now
688. 00:58:32 We got a different level of thinking that's possible. Yep. That's what I'm waiting on
689. 00:58:38 But it doesn't exist thus Joe doesn't have an iPad on order
690. 00:58:41 Yeah, I think it I think it's moving in that direction
691. 00:58:45 And there will be a point in the near future where you're able to do that
692. 00:58:49 I mean some of that stuff is it exists just not in obsidian
693. 00:58:54 Specifically like the scribble feature you can write in apps have it converted into text
694. 00:59:00 Why can't obsidian do that it's a matter of time. It's a system mobile feature
695. 00:59:04 They'll they'll add that yep
696. 00:59:05 There are plugins in obsidian to do what I was talking about with the mind maps where you can write something down
697. 00:59:10 It's a node now you can drag that to a different spot and the mind map updates
698. 00:59:15 So it's not super elegant, but I think we're gonna we're gonna get there like you when I was
699. 00:59:22 When I was thinking about the the iPad
700. 00:59:26 I kind of felt like there doesn't exist a spot for the iPad in my
701. 00:59:31 day-to-day workflow
702. 00:59:33 Which is kind of bizarre to me because I use it three times a week for sketch notes
703. 00:59:39 Like I have a whole series of videos that I created on my my website
704. 00:59:43 Which are these sermon sketch notes?
705. 00:59:44 So I have a legit use case for it yet
706. 00:59:47 I don't think about that because that's kind of the only time that this is the right device for what I want to do
707. 00:59:54 Yeah, it's not a great computer for typing
708. 00:59:58 I have that keyboard folio case on my 11 inch iPad Pro, but I never want to use that keyboard
709. 01:00:03 So I never want to write with it. I never want to do any of the other things that I do on my Mac with it
710. 01:00:08 It's literally just the analog stuff. It's the the sketch notes and so I
711. 01:00:13 wrote an article for the screencast online magazine
712. 01:00:16 Which is gonna be out for next month of the different ways that I am excited about this smaller form factor
713. 01:00:23 I feel this is the thing that's gonna make this click for me
714. 01:00:27 When I'm doing research for a podcast when I'm working on the outline for bookworm stuff like that
715. 01:00:34 This is the perfect form factor where it's small enough
716. 01:00:38 I can just take this and sit on the couch and do it and it's gonna be better than doing it on my phone
717. 01:00:42 Which is what I did today for the bookworm outline
718. 01:00:45 So I tend to do this sort of stuff on the go, but the iPad is just too big
719. 01:00:50 It's too heavy. It's too clunky even at the 11 inch size for me to want to use it frequently
720. 01:00:56 But that small a5 notebook size
721. 01:00:59 I love that and I'm excited about the the different hybrid analog. Maybe we'll we'll call that
722. 01:01:07 I've got my my hybrid bullet journal, which is not a bullet journal. I've got my hybrid iPad which I'm not gonna use like an iPad
723. 01:01:14 I'm just one of these these weird birds, I guess
724. 01:01:19 But I do like the the idea of being able to use the Apple pencil with that and kind of what you're talking about with obsidian
725. 01:01:26 That is the the dream for me as well
726. 01:01:28 I think if if that becomes a thing like I could I could see doing my entire
727. 01:01:34 bullet journal setup in an iPad mini like I could totally see that but again you have to let me
728. 01:01:42 connect things like connect my handwritten notes somehow and it has to be clean and
729. 01:01:48 Don't over complicate it like everybody wants to over complicate it
730. 01:01:52 Like just make it simple and let me run with that if that exists already
731. 01:01:56 Somebody please reach out to me on Twitter or something and let me know but it doesn't have to be in obsidian
732. 01:02:04 Like I'm gonna want you know me. I'm gonna want the image files or text files
733. 01:02:08 And I'm gonna want access to that
734. 01:02:11 But if there's something like that exists like I will have an iPad on order very quickly
735. 01:02:18 Cool cool. Let's move on to the last part here part three thinking with our relationships and the first
736. 01:02:25 chapter in here is chapter seven thinking with experts this is basically a case for
737. 01:02:32 getting ideas from people who know a bunch of stuff and
738. 01:02:37 There are some interesting examples here of
739. 01:02:40 Imitators which kind of harkens back to the innovators dilemma by Clayton Christensen
740. 01:02:47 person who's first is usually not the successful one. It's the imitator and
741. 01:02:51 There's a statistic here that imitators cost is typically about 60 to 75% of the
742. 01:02:57 innovators cost so it costs them less and they're able to learn from the mistakes and things like that but the thing that I
743. 01:03:04 thought about with this is
744. 01:03:07 You're thinking with experts so just that definition if I'm going to apply this and think with experts
745. 01:03:14 I need to surround myself with people who know more than I do and
746. 01:03:18 I'm going to get on my soapbox for a moment here and make the case that you should be reading more books I
747. 01:03:25 Was thinking back about the last several years and
748. 01:03:32 how I have grown and a
749. 01:03:36 large percentage of that personal growth I can attribute to this podcast and forcing myself to sit down and read the books even the
750. 01:03:44 Ones that didn't really want to read but I think just the ability that we have to
751. 01:03:50 Allow someone to speak into our life for
752. 01:03:54 $20 in Amazon will get it here by tomorrow
753. 01:03:57 People don't realize how much value there is in that and it kind of is shocking to me as I was thinking about
754. 01:04:04 I'm thinking about people that I know who if I go to a conference and some big name person is there
755. 01:04:12 They want an audience with that person they'll do anything they can to get a couple of minutes alone with this
756. 01:04:19 expert and ask a question
757. 01:04:21 Because they might get the answer
758. 01:04:24 But that person has probably also written a book and given you the answer you just have to learn how to look for it
759. 01:04:31 and
760. 01:04:33 Yeah, I just it makes me sad to think about how
761. 01:04:38 There's so many people and I'll put myself in this category to where we don't know what we don't know and the answer
762. 01:04:45 Already exists and if we would just access the information that is available to us
763. 01:04:50 We don't even have to spend the money to buy the books off of Amazon most of the time
764. 01:04:54 We can go to the local library and get it ourselves
765. 01:04:57 It's right there. It's just not blatantly obvious and so a lot of people won't dig and again
766. 01:05:05 I'm putting myself in this category where ah it's too much effort
767. 01:05:09 Really if you could see what sort of impact that would have you would be all over it
768. 01:05:14 But you can't see
769. 01:05:17 That far into the future to see how things are going to be different
770. 01:05:20 It's only when you look back like we have over 129 episodes of this
771. 01:05:26 And we can and I can see you know where I was when I started where I am now and how that has helped me
772. 01:05:33 That that provides the the momentum to to keep going so don't wait three years to to wish you had read more books
773. 01:05:40 Just read more books
774. 01:05:43 Simple just you know sit down and read
775. 01:05:45 Super simple. What's the
776. 01:05:48 You know people talk about they want to be the first
777. 01:05:51 In a field like I want to be the first one to come up with a brand new idea
778. 01:05:55 No, the people who are successful are second. Yep. It happens
779. 01:06:00 In every industry in some form or another
780. 01:06:02 You want to be a fast second common?
781. 01:06:05 Yes, you see something
782. 01:06:08 You realize it could be big you see what their core
783. 01:06:12 Fundamental problem is and why the first person of the industry isn't doing it right
784. 01:06:16 You fix that problem
785. 01:06:19 And then you take off Oreos are that way forward motor company is that way like I we could give you all sorts of
786. 01:06:25 Examples here apple and Xerox they talk about in this chapter. Yeah. Yeah
787. 01:06:30 Absolutely. So even apples stuff is stolen. So like this is not
788. 01:06:35 being first is not what you're after
789. 01:06:38 fast second is what you're after and a quick way to do that is
790. 01:06:43 Consume things from people who are the experts
791. 01:06:47 As frequently as you can and take audience with them as much as you can and given the age that we live in
792. 01:06:53 It's very easy to do that like this morning. I was learning some things from Elon Musk
793. 01:06:58 because I thought it was interesting and
794. 01:07:01 That is not something you used to be able to do but you didn't used to be able to
795. 01:07:06 Talk to the CEO
796. 01:07:09 Or learn from the CEO of a major company
797. 01:07:12 Who's breaking all the rules like you didn't used to be able to learn from them?
798. 01:07:17 Well, you can do that now. Yeah, because they interview they're on podcast. They're
799. 01:07:21 You know creating their own media. They're coming up with things all over the place and they're you know on the media somewhere
800. 01:07:28 You can go learn from them and
801. 01:07:30 That's a huge benefit
802. 01:07:32 If you're willing to use the tools at your disposal for that purpose and not just
803. 01:07:38 Killing a couple hours because you're tired and want to go to bed. Yeah learning is not just consuming information though because there is no
804. 01:07:46 shortage of information
805. 01:07:49 It's forcing yourself to decide like we already talked about what does this mean to me
806. 01:07:55 But when you go through that additional step, which is honestly not that much more additional work
807. 01:08:00 That's where all the value comes in
808. 01:08:03 but if all I did was
809. 01:08:06 Write down notes from all of these books that we read and stored them somewhere
810. 01:08:11 Like I used to do this inside of ever note
811. 01:08:13 You have all this text that you can go back and you can search
812. 01:08:16 But it doesn't give you any day-to-day value. You're not bumping up into it again until you have the thought
813. 01:08:22 Oh, I need to go find this thing and then you can go retrieve it
814. 01:08:25 But I want to have this stuff impact my day-to-day thinking and so that is that is a little bit different here
815. 01:08:33 Also going back to the the quality of the information that you collect
816. 01:08:39 I'm reminded of an audio book that I listened to one time. I won't say read because listening to an audiobook is not reading
817. 01:08:49 And it's the art of exceptional living by Jim Rohn and the reason that I listened to it is that it did not exist in a printed format
818. 01:08:56 It was just a CD
819. 01:08:59 But one of the things that he said in that I've listened to it probably a dozen times
820. 01:09:02 I kept it my car because I listened to it over and over again because it was just so good
821. 01:09:06 But there was one thing he said in there that really stuck with me
822. 01:09:08 He said that three questions that you should ask about the people in your life
823. 01:09:13 Number one, who am I allowing to speak into my life?
824. 01:09:17 Number two, what effect what effect is that having on me?
825. 01:09:20 Number three, is that okay?
826. 01:09:23 If you ask those three questions, honestly about
827. 01:09:28 most social media and I will say without fail
828. 01:09:33 absolutely 100 Facebook
829. 01:09:36 You would you would not use it anymore
830. 01:09:42 Because it's making you more angry. It's making you more anxious. It's making you more stressed out
831. 01:09:47 I mean there are research studies just as we record this
832. 01:09:51 Just this week that articles have run about how Facebook is linked to higher teenage suicide rates
833. 01:10:00 It's a proven thing the algorithm is evil get away from that jump
834. 01:10:05 But we just we've trained ourselves like this is what we do so
835. 01:10:10 When you have to label
836. 01:10:12 The inputs in your life as either good or bad
837. 01:10:15 It's a lot easier to let stuff go as opposed all this is what this is what I do
838. 01:10:19 if you don't have to
839. 01:10:22 If you don't have to make a value judgment
840. 01:10:24 You can just keep doing the same thing over and over again
841. 01:10:26 And you can kind of hope and wish that things get better
842. 01:10:29 But you're not really going to be motivated to do anything about it
843. 01:10:32 And I have totally been in that place. So I empathize with people who are stuck there
844. 01:10:38 That's also one of the reasons I did that action item from back in the day where I rated all of my relationships
845. 01:10:43 Yes, yes, I hope that still varies plus plus plus to minus minus. Yeah, it's just recognizing
846. 01:10:50 What's really going on and trying to tip the scale more towards the positive? Yes
847. 01:10:57 And I am convinced that books are the way to go
848. 01:11:00 absolutely
849. 01:11:03 Two things I'm going to give you an action item to your listener
850. 01:11:07 Buy books
851. 01:11:08 And listen to bookworm those your two tasks those are the things you need to do. Okay, so that you'll be you'll be set
852. 01:11:15 You can listen to bookworm first as a filter to decide which books are worth really
853. 01:11:20 Reading but then go back and read the books or yes, you want you can read along with us
854. 01:11:26 Because in its largest book club asterisk
855. 01:11:30 Like the bookmarks say
856. 01:11:34 Yes, and the thing here is that you should know it we talk about
857. 01:11:37 A lot of the big points in these books, but there's a lot that we don't cover in most books
858. 01:11:45 Yeah, there's so much more so just need to say that
859. 01:11:47 chapter eight thinking with peers
860. 01:11:50 This one is interesting. I guess
861. 01:11:54 Uh, this chapter kind of made me sad to be honest because the big thing from this
862. 01:12:00 That's set up to me is that you should fight as if you're right and listen as if you're wrong
863. 01:12:05 And I read that and I'm like, yes, totally
864. 01:12:08 And then I get sad because how do you implement that?
865. 01:12:12 Company culture if you're not at the very top
866. 01:12:15 Interesting that that's fascinating that you have that perspective because I
867. 01:12:20 like like you're saying yes
868. 01:12:23 Talk and fight like your rights and then listen like you're wrong
869. 01:12:28 I feel like I do that a lot and I didn't realize that I did that a lot again. This is another one of those
870. 01:12:32 I didn't know this was happening
871. 01:12:34 But I do this with my boss quite a bit and then the upper leadership
872. 01:12:40 That are above him. I do it quite a bit with them
873. 01:12:44 And it seems like it changes things over time
874. 01:12:48 Like it seems like it has that impact now
875. 01:12:50 I don't know if that's a factor of the specific culture that I'm sitting in
876. 01:12:55 Or if that's a more universal thing. I don't know. I would assume it's not universal
877. 01:12:59 But I don't know. I I don't have a clean answer on that one, but
878. 01:13:03 Well, let me clarify a little bit here because I think you can implement this in
879. 01:13:09 varying degrees
880. 01:13:12 So I would argue that I do this as well too
881. 01:13:16 However, when I read that
882. 01:13:19 I was like, yes, this needs to be like a company core value
883. 01:13:23 It needs to be explicitly written sure every single meeting everyone comes in with this in mind
884. 01:13:30 Because if you are clear about that
885. 01:13:32 Then I feel you minimize the chances of people's feelings getting hurt
886. 01:13:37 and I
887. 01:13:39 I have been in situations where that has been communicated explicitly, but it is not
888. 01:13:44 Um, it is not common. I feel
889. 01:13:49 However, there's tons of value that comes from this the example that she uses in this chapter of
890. 01:13:56 Brad bird and john walker
891. 01:13:59 They are famous for fighting openly at pixar people will hear them yelling at each other
892. 01:14:05 and
893. 01:14:07 When I read that I was like wow, that would be a cool company culture if that was acceptable
894. 01:14:13 But everybody also knew that it was healthy
895. 01:14:15 I've been in companies where that happens and it's not healthy and it's just kind of oh, let's just pretend that didn't happen
896. 01:14:23 But when it's
897. 01:14:26 Recognize that this is part of the creative process and that's really the
898. 01:14:30 The goal here is you have people who are working off of each other
899. 01:14:36 Not just trying to dominate and get their own way
900. 01:14:40 But this is part of the process and we all agree that the end result here is going to be better because of it
901. 01:14:46 There was another book we read and I can't put my finger on the title
902. 01:14:50 But they talked about the right brothers fighting like this all the time
903. 01:14:55 And then they would come back the next day and be oh, you were right
904. 01:14:58 The bull though would say that yes. Yes. Yes. Exactly. It wasn't just a single personality
905. 01:15:04 Constantly getting their way because the other one went home and
906. 01:15:08 realized it was eating them up and didn't want to
907. 01:15:11 Upset things at Thanksgiving, you know, it was just this is
908. 01:15:15 This is the deal and we're gonna work this this process
909. 01:15:19 That's that's like it's a good point to bring up
910. 01:15:22 I've I've dealt with this one specifically a lot in our house remodel because
911. 01:15:26 Because we're on such a tight time frame. I've had a lot of people come help
912. 01:15:29 and have asked a lot of people to help and I've been
913. 01:15:32 very specific about who I asked to help on what thing because I know like
914. 01:15:38 Different people have different skill sets, right?
915. 01:15:39 I can invite just about any person over to help hold a beam in place
916. 01:15:45 But I have specific people I'm gonna ask over to help me with electrical like this. This is very intentional. However
917. 01:15:51 Whenever I have had some folks over to help like there are sometimes
918. 01:15:56 Details on how something should she something should be done that we disagree on
919. 01:16:03 And granted it's my house. So I have the last say on that
920. 01:16:07 but I always want to make sure that we're both on the same page when we're doing these things and
921. 01:16:13 More often than not one or the other of us in almost every case that this has happened
922. 01:16:18 Has just said let's go work on something else
923. 01:16:21 And come back to this one like that. That's kind of a thing that people in construction
924. 01:16:25 I know do it's like I can't figure this out right now
925. 01:16:28 I either need to go home for the night or go work on something completely different and come back to it
926. 01:16:32 and
927. 01:16:33 almost every single time
928. 01:16:36 Actually in this case, I think it's every single time when we've come back to it
929. 01:16:39 It's always meant not we should do it your way and both of us are saying that
930. 01:16:43 Yeah, and they're completely different people. So
931. 01:16:46 Yes, I I feel like that's a very common thing that can happen at least in healthy relationships
932. 01:16:52 That's that's a lot of what happens, but it's been fascinating to me to see that come about
933. 01:16:56 Yeah, it makes makes a lot of sense
934. 01:16:59 And it is kind of sad. I feel at least my personality type that
935. 01:17:06 The default is to avoid that sort of conflict. I'm of sure people pleaser by nature
936. 01:17:12 So
937. 01:17:14 Unless I go into it knowing explicitly that the rules allow and actually encourage this sort of thing
938. 01:17:22 I tend to
939. 01:17:24 not want to go there
940. 01:17:26 and then
941. 01:17:27 Sometimes I'll I'll suppress it for so long that eventually I'll just
942. 01:17:32 Say it and that's where I also get into trouble where now I have an unhealthy attachment to this thing
943. 01:17:38 Because I have brewed on it for so long that I'm actually fighting just to get by way
944. 01:17:44 The better way to do it is like you're talking about, you know, we we have these strong opinions strong convictions slightly held
945. 01:17:54 Yep. Yep. Absolutely. All right last chapter
946. 01:17:58 Not the very last part of the book because there is a conclusion, but chapter nine is thinking with groups
947. 01:18:03 I thought this chapter was interesting. There's some cool team building type stuff in here
948. 01:18:08 There's a whole section on how to generate groupiness. She talks
949. 01:18:12 That's the term she uses if we need to work together. We should learn together. We should train together
950. 01:18:17 We should feel together. We should engage in rituals together
951. 01:18:21 and it just makes me sad to think about all of the
952. 01:18:26 Asynchronous
953. 01:18:27 Work that tries to happen in all of these silos, especially with covid and a lot of people working remote for the the first time
954. 01:18:35 you lose a lot of this sort of stuff and
955. 01:18:39 I feel a lot of people don't even realize
956. 01:18:42 How things are different yet? Maybe but it's not good
957. 01:18:47 There's a lot of that intangible stuff that you uh, you don't
958. 01:18:52 Realize how much it makes a difference until it's maybe too late. This is this is the piece of
959. 01:18:57 covid remote work
960. 01:19:00 Ramifications that I don't think we've fully understood quite yet. Yep. People who
961. 01:19:04 Yeah, people who have worked in remote companies
962. 01:19:08 Usually have one of two responses one. This is amazing and
963. 01:19:12 You know, I I can work whenever I want
964. 01:19:15 And the async thing means that I can you know share my thoughts whenever I'm writing
965. 01:19:20 That that's usually one response. The other is
966. 01:19:23 There are no people in my life and I have no real connection with the people that I'm working with
967. 01:19:30 For some folks, that's exactly what they want
968. 01:19:32 I would venture to say that for most people that's not helpful
969. 01:19:37 This is why I think there are a number of companies that over time that are now who have tried remote work
970. 01:19:43 And then have just rejected it entirely
971. 01:19:46 As a result now I say that knowing this is what you do right mike and it's true
972. 01:19:52 I know that I have done this in the past. I
973. 01:19:55 Have been in a lot of scenarios
974. 01:19:58 Where remote work was the way things were done because it's not possible for me to fly to china or Canada or
975. 01:20:04 South africa to meet with my clients like it's just not possible
976. 01:20:08 So those are things that I know are restrictions, right?
977. 01:20:13 But there is something to be said for
978. 01:20:16 like working together and having those rituals and having those routines together
979. 01:20:22 And as much as we talk about how we don't like meetings like I have a weekly staff meeting
980. 01:20:27 That I go to but there is a whole ritual that goes with that and a routine now granted
981. 01:20:33 It can last an hour and a half two hours sometimes three hours
982. 01:20:36 but that's the time at which we connect as people
983. 01:20:40 and
984. 01:20:43 Do a lot of things other than just
985. 01:20:45 Talk about business at church like we'll celebrate birthdays. We'll grab donuts or cake or something like that's part of it
986. 01:20:52 We may spend 30 minutes talking about what we're doing for vacations for
987. 01:20:56 The summer like that sort of thing does happen as part of that. So
988. 01:21:00 There's a lot more to it, but if that staff meeting were to go away
989. 01:21:05 I know that I wouldn't connect with my coworkers near as much as what I do now
990. 01:21:10 So right there is that piece so as much as remote work has had its
991. 01:21:15 promotion and its heyday
992. 01:21:17 Heart of me feels like we're on the edge of wondering whether or not
993. 01:21:22 That's the way we should be going in the future and I say that knowing that that's becoming the norm right now. Yeah
994. 01:21:27 So interesting story from this
995. 01:21:30 section here
996. 01:21:32 uh regarding the synchronous
997. 01:21:34 movements
998. 01:21:35 You're probably not doing synchronous movements in your staff meetings, but no, maybe you are if you are they'd probably be better
999. 01:21:41 maybe
1000. 01:21:43 maybe
1001. 01:21:44 But one of the things that she calls out is that those synchronous movements flip the switch from ithinking to we thinking and
1002. 01:21:50 I loved this
1003. 01:21:53 Concept as I was reflecting on this. I was thinking about my middle school
1004. 01:21:59 soccer coaching experience
1005. 01:22:02 I'm coaching my sons one of them is in eighth grade one of them is in sixth grade
1006. 01:22:07 And they're both homeschooled, but there's kind of like a co-op sort of a thing that has a has sports teams
1007. 01:22:12 so
1008. 01:22:13 We actually have a team that plays other small schools in the area
1009. 01:22:19 and
1010. 01:22:21 Most of the soccer teams that we play are seventh and eighth grade
1011. 01:22:26 Just boys
1012. 01:22:28 We are fifth through eighth grade boys and girls
1013. 01:22:31 A majority of the kids on the team have never played before
1014. 01:22:36 We do have some very talented players, but we also have this thing where everybody gets to play both halves
1015. 01:22:42 And we've got 22 kids, which means that the good players aren't in all the time
1016. 01:22:49 So different coaching philosophies
1017. 01:22:51 Larger pool of kids and younger kids that we're drawing from means the beginning of the year
1018. 01:22:57 We were getting smoked our first game. We lost I think five to one
1019. 01:23:01 second game was like 12 to one
1020. 01:23:04 and after that second game, I didn't realize
1021. 01:23:08 uh, the value of this but
1022. 01:23:11 I
1023. 01:23:13 Had to step in the the head coach actually
1024. 01:23:15 Uh, someone in his family was dealing with covid
1025. 01:23:19 So they had to quarantine for a couple weeks base of means I was running everything as the assistant coach
1026. 01:23:23 The scenario I had worked so hard to avoid here. I was
1027. 01:23:27 And you're on the second game. Awesome. Yes. So the
1028. 01:23:34 The very next game I
1029. 01:23:36 Picked a couple of the eighth grade boys
1030. 01:23:39 Uh, basically with eighth graders. There's just three eighth graders on the the team
1031. 01:23:42 So
1032. 01:23:43 They're the older older kids made them the the captains and I made them
1033. 01:23:47 Lead the whole team in a standard pregame routine starting with
1034. 01:23:53 stretches
1035. 01:23:55 Believe it or not before this they would just like come screw around for a half an hour to start the game
1036. 01:24:00 They never did anything together. So
1037. 01:24:03 They are doing these stretches the whole team is lining up on the line. They're calling them out
1038. 01:24:07 They're counting them out together and then they go through a couple other like warm-up type drills together
1039. 01:24:11 But it's a process and everybody does it together and then when I read this the synchronous movements
1040. 01:24:16 I thought about that with the stretching
1041. 01:24:18 I'm like well stretching is successful. No one has pulled a muscle since the
1042. 01:24:21 The first game when some get hurt is hamstring, right?
1043. 01:24:24 but
1044. 01:24:26 A strange thing has happened over the last several games where we are actually much more competitive than maybe we should
1045. 01:24:33 be
1046. 01:24:34 And as I read this I'm like, huh
1047. 01:24:36 So maybe that stretching that synchronous movement that flips the switch at the beginning of the games from
1048. 01:24:42 Eye to we and we end up playing a lot better together and
1049. 01:24:46 We still haven't won a game. We've been ahead a couple of times. We've had two ties
1050. 01:24:50 Which honestly we should have won both of those games
1051. 01:24:53 But if you would have told me at the beginning of the year, we would have tied any of the games be like no
1052. 01:24:58 No, we're not good enough
1053. 01:25:01 Yeah, but I am reflecting on that and I'm thinking that that actually probably has a lot more to do with the success than
1054. 01:25:08 How good I am as a coach in terms of teaching soccer ability
1055. 01:25:11 Yeah, it's fascinating to me that whenever you can figure out how to work together as a group
1056. 01:25:17 It makes a big big difference. So yep kudos on you kudos on the stretching
1057. 01:25:23 Thanks. There's another thing I wanted to touch on with with this section on thinking in a group
1058. 01:25:28 There's a couple of specific
1059. 01:25:30 I guess tips you could say but I don't think she framed him as that
1060. 01:25:34 Number one if you are a leader
1061. 01:25:37 Don't tell anybody what you think because she says that as soon as the leader makes his or her preferences
1062. 01:25:43 No, and everyone else engages in self-silencing
1063. 01:25:45 I've totally seen this and I've been guilty of this myself
1064. 01:25:48 And uh, I can think of a couple different groups
1065. 01:25:50 I'm a part of where I do hold some regular meetings and
1066. 01:25:56 Kind of the big takeaway for me is just start the meeting and then
1067. 01:25:59 Ask people what they think and even if there's a big long awkward silence after that wait for somebody else to make the first move
1068. 01:26:05 Yep. Yep. I remember that from my corporate days like I was very good at awkward silences like I'll wait all day
1069. 01:26:13 Yeah, somebody else is speaking first. Do not care
1070. 01:26:16 Right and then a couple of their just practical things. I think if you're thinking in a group
1071. 01:26:21 Have leaders sounds themselves. That's the one I was just talking about
1072. 01:26:24 Make your thought process visible. So as you are
1073. 01:26:27 Talking about things and deciding on things if you have to do it via zoom
1074. 01:26:32 Have somebody share their screen and document it live like take live notes
1075. 01:26:36 So that everybody can see what's going on create group artifacts
1076. 01:26:40 If you're talking through a process have like a diagram at the end of this is the process or this is the sop whatever
1077. 01:26:46 Then ultimately the last one here identify who is responsible for doing that that part makes sense
1078. 01:26:52 If you're going to run an effective meeting you got to have action items and people responsible for them
1079. 01:26:56 But there's another piece to this identify who is responsible for doing and knowing what
1080. 01:27:02 I feel like this is the one where I've got a lot of
1081. 01:27:06 room for growth
1082. 01:27:08 because I can't even
1083. 01:27:10 Recall the the number there's too many the number of times we've gotten into a meeting and well, what did we decide?
1084. 01:27:17 I don't remember I thought we wrote it down somewhere and no one really wrote it down because everyone assumed that the other person
1085. 01:27:22 This is their project. They're gonna take notes on it whatever
1086. 01:27:26 So this is a big takeaway for me though. Not a specific action item
1087. 01:27:31 Just something I want to keep in mind for future meetings is make sure that
1088. 01:27:35 The knowledge that is being generated by a group that there's an owner of that as well for the future
1089. 01:27:40 Hey, that goes back. I think we talked about this last time like it seems like every little meeting that I have it's like, okay here
1090. 01:27:46 Here's the thing we talked about who's doing what what moves it forward? Am I doing it?
1091. 01:27:51 Like what is the next step that needs taken here? Like that is just it's so important
1092. 01:27:56 Yep, and unless somebody dictates that a decision on what comes next
1093. 01:28:01 Unless somebody makes that decision. Guess what? Nothing happened
1094. 01:28:05 Yep, it's true. All right, then the last part of this book the conclusion. Let's just touch on this briefly
1095. 01:28:13 This is a one of the most effective summaries of a book I have ever read
1096. 01:28:20 The flow of this goes something like this
1097. 01:28:22 Mental extensions can help combat the stereotype threat which is a temporary condition that seps brainpower to those affected rendering them less intelligent
1098. 01:28:31 Extensions are most powerful when deployed in combination
1099. 01:28:35 And then she goes on through the nine principles for mind extending whenever possible fill in the blank
1100. 01:28:41 I don't want to talk for the next five minutes without a break. So I'm not going to go through all of those but
1101. 01:28:48 Oh, and by the way the traditional academic system the way we take tests that discourages and even eliminates these extensions
1102. 01:28:56 So the system is broken
1103. 01:28:58 But this is the best way to to move forward which is amazing like this this is a
1104. 01:29:04 Well-written conclusion, right? Yeah, here are all the ways that you could think
1105. 01:29:09 externally and by the way, here's some ways to help you do that but the practical what to do about it piece
1106. 01:29:18 Is not belabored and made into an entire part on its own it is not
1107. 01:29:22 Sprinkled throughout the whole thing either. It's like here you go. I just gave you a whole bunch of information and here's your action items
1108. 01:29:30 Yeah, that's bookworm model to a t right there
1109. 01:29:34 Even the lead into the conclusion is expertly done because the last story from chapter nine talks about the
1110. 01:29:41 public school system in Austin, Texas
1111. 01:29:45 And the person who was leading some change there and then
1112. 01:29:49 Their son is the subject of the story at the beginning of the conclusion. So there's a perfect
1113. 01:29:58 Connection between these yeah, like I said, this is one of the best conclusions. I think I've I've ever read
1114. 01:30:03 Which is why I put it on the the outline there's
1115. 01:30:07 Not just a summary of what she said there's some new information here
1116. 01:30:12 But it builds perfectly on everything that she has mentioned prior to this
1117. 01:30:16 Anything else you want to mention about this book before we get into action items? I don't think so. I mean there's there's a lot here
1118. 01:30:23 So no, I'm good. All right. Well, let's talk about action items then
1119. 01:30:29 You want to go first? Sure. Yeah, so I have
1120. 01:30:33 The one where I want to talk to Becky about our middle
1121. 01:30:39 Child rose and how to maybe help her with movement and such
1122. 01:30:44 And maybe some nature stuff to maybe help her with
1123. 01:30:47 Retention on some school things. So I have that as a an action item. So I'm going to work through that
1124. 01:30:52 with Becky and then
1125. 01:30:55 You know, we we talked early on with follow-up of like my whole daily routine thing
1126. 01:31:00 I feel like a lot of this book sets itself up really well for routine based
1127. 01:31:06 Action items here because they're like ongoing type
1128. 01:31:11 Methods like here are ways you should live your life not a here. You need to go use this system for managing your tasks
1129. 01:31:18 Right. So it is set up to be longer term
1130. 01:31:22 So I think what I'm doing is I'm kind of taking some of this
1131. 01:31:26 And going to see how this incorporates into that daily routine action item that I'm carrying over
1132. 01:31:32 So I think we're just going to incorporate some of this into those
1133. 01:31:36 Discussions whenever I'm setting some of that up. So kind of broadening that one and
1134. 01:31:41 Adding some time to it as well. So those are the ones that are standing out to me at the moment
1135. 01:31:48 I feel like this one
1136. 01:31:50 Yes, there could be a lot more action items and I suspect that you have more
1137. 01:31:54 Than just two but I feel like this is one that action items may pop up over time
1138. 01:32:01 Sure, I don't feel like I've said that before but this one feels like okay
1139. 01:32:05 Here's a whole bunch of information. I feel like this is going to come back
1140. 01:32:08 And I'm going to have the tendency to add some things later
1141. 01:32:11 So I'm kind of curious when we get to follow up in a couple weeks
1142. 01:32:15 If there have been any things that have popped up in that time frame
1143. 01:32:20 So but I'm going to start with the two all right
1144. 01:32:22 Well, I'm going to blow your mind because I also have two action items
1145. 01:32:26 Which we've talked about both of them already
1146. 01:32:30 I do agree that there probably is potential for a lot more
1147. 01:32:34 With this
1148. 01:32:35 But as I was reading this there were two things that I heard and I was like, okay
1149. 01:32:38 Yeah, I'm going to do that the first one meditate for reals
1150. 01:32:42 Yep, the one I am not looking forward to
1151. 01:32:45 The second one think on paper
1152. 01:32:49 So what that means is I've been time blocking my day every day in my notebook
1153. 01:32:54 I've got my five tasks up to five tasks that I'm going to complete
1154. 01:32:57 And I have that all created usually the night before
1155. 01:33:02 But I don't really use the rest of the page very often for thinking
1156. 01:33:07 I keep it next to my desk. I take notes in it like when we're recording a podcast
1157. 01:33:12 If there's something you know an edit point or whatever or something
1158. 01:33:15 I want to remember
1159. 01:33:16 I saw you jotting down some notes you probably do this too if somebody's talking about something
1160. 01:33:20 I want to go back and talk about that. I'll jot that down in a in a list
1161. 01:33:23 but I don't
1162. 01:33:25 Think on paper and so I want to
1163. 01:33:27 Spend some time thinking about how I can do that more effectively
1164. 01:33:32 I've done it before
1165. 01:33:33 I think it's as simple as just making lists and things inside of the notebook
1166. 01:33:39 Making outlines in there first not just using it as a capture place basically
1167. 01:33:45 So those are mine
1168. 01:33:47 uh style and rating
1169. 01:33:49 My book so i'll go first. This is a great book
1170. 01:33:53 You just go buy this book
1171. 01:33:55 Go buy and read this book even if you're not interested in the concepts
1172. 01:34:00 I feel coming into this because we had heard about some of this stuff before
1173. 01:34:05 Our reaction to it was oh this helped me understand why
1174. 01:34:11 More frequently than it brought an idea where oh my gosh. I've never heard this before
1175. 01:34:17 I can see a scenario though where
1176. 01:34:20 That is the case
1177. 01:34:23 And I would be hard pressed to think of a better resource
1178. 01:34:28 For a lot of the ideas that are presented here
1179. 01:34:31 I can't think of anything I would really recommend
1180. 01:34:34 Higher than this for a lot of those
1181. 01:34:37 Maybe mental inflection points if that that makes sense
1182. 01:34:40 uh if you're coming into this and
1183. 01:34:43 You're thinking with movement, you know, that's a brand new concept to you
1184. 01:34:49 I think she does a great job laying out why you should
1185. 01:34:52 Do that why you should get outside and go for walks and things like that
1186. 01:34:56 Like I said not brand new to you and me but
1187. 01:34:59 It was kind of surprising to me that we we both had the same reaction though of oh
1188. 01:35:04 That's why I was doing that and it creates motivation to to keep doing it
1189. 01:35:08 So who is this for?
1190. 01:35:10 Absolutely everyone
1191. 01:35:12 In terms of the style
1192. 01:35:14 It is a very
1193. 01:35:16 It is the work of a lot of research
1194. 01:35:19 Uh, it's a very academic book without feeling like that
1195. 01:35:24 The stories are very well written. I feel like it is very
1196. 01:35:28 approachable
1197. 01:35:29 Maybe not maybe we
1198. 01:35:31 She talks in the in this book about you know, if you become an expert in something you
1199. 01:35:36 You forget about all of the beginner steps that you have to go through
1200. 01:35:39 Just kind of lump them all together
1201. 01:35:41 And so it's hard for somebody who's just coming into something
1202. 01:35:45 I do recognize that that is a possibility maybe with this
1203. 01:35:48 But I I still think this is a
1204. 01:35:51 Phenomenal book, uh, I think it's kind of set up by the way for a sequel
1205. 01:35:56 The very last sentence in here. She talks about the extended mind being connected to the extended heart
1206. 01:36:03 I feel like there's a whole book on on that
1207. 01:36:06 So maybe there's like a whole series that she's going to be getting into with this
1208. 01:36:11 It's one of the best books of 2020 on amazon for a reason
1209. 01:36:16 I'm going to rate it five stars
1210. 01:36:19 the coveted five star
1211. 01:36:21 rating
1212. 01:36:23 I don't think there's anything in here specifically
1213. 01:36:26 That we we talk about our action items, but there's those action items are not going to completely change our lives
1214. 01:36:34 Like maybe some other action items you would think when you get done with a book that
1215. 01:36:39 I would typically rate it as 5.0. Oh that light bulb went on for the very first time
1216. 01:36:43 This is something that i'm going to do and I can already see how this is going to totally revolutionize everything that I do
1217. 01:36:49 But I do think like you said this is the kind of thing that is going to stick with you
1218. 01:36:53 And you're going to make a whole bunch of micro adjustments over time
1219. 01:36:55 Based off of stuff that you have read from this it's going to impact other things and you're not going to realize
1220. 01:37:01 The total value of reading this for a very long time kind of like how to read a book
1221. 01:37:07 That's what I was thinking about when I was reading this is like this is
1222. 01:37:09 The modern version of how to read a book and 10 years from now
1223. 01:37:13 We're going to go back to this book and say that was the point where all of this stuff kind of clicked for us
1224. 01:37:19 But we don't know that for sure until we we get to that point
1225. 01:37:23 So yeah 5.0 not just because it's a good book, but because I I think it's a very applicable
1226. 01:37:30 A very approachable book for just about anybody who would pick it up
1227. 01:37:35 And yet you're rating this one really well on rated how to read a book very poorly
1228. 01:37:38 I should probably go back and adjust that rating maybe episode 200
1229. 01:37:42 We'll uh, we'll adjust some more ratings adjust it. Yeah
1230. 01:37:45 All right. Well, I
1231. 01:37:48 I think you have nailed it with some of the style pieces here like this thing is
1232. 01:37:52 Very polished they have spent a long time editing this she spent a long time
1233. 01:37:59 Writing this you can tell this is not something that was whipped up in the span of you know six months
1234. 01:38:05 like it took time to put this together and
1235. 01:38:09 it shows and
1236. 01:38:11 The detail at which the subtleties are put together is phenomenal like it's just like you were talking about leading chapter nine into the conclusion
1237. 01:38:19 Not a lot of authors go through the trouble of trying to set the stories up between sections to connect
1238. 01:38:26 Yeah, and it seems like every part
1239. 01:38:30 Had a kicker at the end that would lead into the next part every chapter within those parts did the same thing like it
1240. 01:38:36 It's very well thought out and I appreciate that. Yes. It's a three part three chapter per part thing
1241. 01:38:42 We tend to rail on those this one. I think is very justified in that. I'm with you. I absolutely love this thing
1242. 01:38:49 I think everybody should read it and
1243. 01:38:51 It's dense. It's 250 pages
1244. 01:38:54 But it moves fast like there's a lot
1245. 01:38:58 That's covered. There's a lot of science and yet it's not overwhelming
1246. 01:39:03 It's got a really good balance in so many ways that I feel like this is very approachable to just about anybody
1247. 01:39:10 Uh as long as your reading level is up to that point. So that said i'll join you at 50 like this is this is one that people should read
1248. 01:39:19 and
1249. 01:39:20 Yes, we covered it here, but
1250. 01:39:22 There are so many things we didn't talk about. Yeah
1251. 01:39:25 Like I've there are there are books that we cover on bookworm
1252. 01:39:29 And I feel like we have teased out and talked about all the points that you really need out of a book
1253. 01:39:33 And at that point there's really no reason for you to go read it
1254. 01:39:36 We've talked about a lot. We've been recording now for an hour and 45 minutes and I feel like
1255. 01:39:42 There's so much more there's so much we haven't talked about we didn't even get into like why she she says articulately
1256. 01:39:49 That daniel condiment system two system one stuff is crap. Oh, yeah
1257. 01:39:53 Yeah, yeah, she talks about all like
1258. 01:39:56 carol de wack has brought up at the beginning and
1259. 01:40:00 Like grit is brought up like these are all things that we could dive deep on each one of those and we just completely skipped
1260. 01:40:05 Like there's so much in this and I love that
1261. 01:40:10 I feel like we don't run across books this dense anymore
1262. 01:40:13 Because people are on a deadline and they're out to write a book. They're not necessarily out to share information
1263. 01:40:19 And in this case, Annie did not do that. So kudos to Annie
1264. 01:40:24 Uh, well done. I can't wait to read your next one. So yes, five oh from me. All right
1265. 01:40:30 So let's put the extended mind
1266. 01:40:32 On the shelf
1267. 01:40:34 What is next joebulig the one i'm coming up next we both don't have in our hands yet because you can't get it in your hands yet
1268. 01:40:41 And that is courage is calling by ryan holiday. It's on pre-order right now
1269. 01:40:46 And by the time this releases you can go order it so as we're recording it you can't get it yet
1270. 01:40:52 But as it releases you can
1271. 01:40:54 And we'll get it here in about four days or so and then cover that in a couple weeks
1272. 01:40:58 but this is the beginning of what I think is a four part series by holiday
1273. 01:41:03 and
1274. 01:41:04 It's basically talking about fear and how overcoming fear
1275. 01:41:09 Is the route you need to take?
1276. 01:41:11 I feel like I should leave it there because there's so much I could talk about already and I don't even have the book in my hands
1277. 01:41:15 We have always liked ryan holiday. So i'm super anxious to get this one in my hands and start on it
1278. 01:41:21 Cool
1279. 01:41:22 And what are you gonna do after that mike? I don't know yet. You haven't updated the outline. Yeah, sorry
1280. 01:41:28 I'll save it here in a second, but uh
1281. 01:41:30 I a little bit ago asked my mastermind group
1282. 01:41:35 What is the best book that you have read this year?
1283. 01:41:39 and
1284. 01:41:41 one of them that came up
1285. 01:41:43 Definitely sparked interest in me from a bookworm perspective
1286. 01:41:47 So that is the one i'm going to pick and it is a minute to think
1287. 01:41:51 Reclaim creativity conquer business and do your best work by juliett
1288. 01:41:56 Fund I think I have seen juliett front speak at the entre leadership summit
1289. 01:42:03 But I can't recall I can't find the speaker list from
1290. 01:42:08 When I was there, I think I wrote down her last name wrong, which is why I can't verify this 100
1291. 01:42:15 But I think it's the same it's the same person
1292. 01:42:19 But this one
1293. 01:42:22 Actually, I talked to somebody who had interviewed her and said that this was by far one of the best interviews
1294. 01:42:28 They have ever had she's super super smart and
1295. 01:42:31 This book comes very highly recommended. Basically it is very much in alignment with what we do
1296. 01:42:39 So I am expecting great things from from this book, but we will find out for sure
1297. 01:42:46 in
1298. 01:42:48 Bottom-month sweet sounds fun a minute to think okay
1299. 01:42:52 Fascinating assuming you don't have any any gap books because you do not have a minute to read
1300. 01:42:57 In the next couple weeks no none whatsoever
1301. 01:43:01 I can watch lots of videos on how to build stairs and such but outside of that no not at all okay
1302. 01:43:07 Yo, well, I have another gap book that I am going to attempt
1303. 01:43:12 From that same meeting a recommendation
1304. 01:43:15 Which maybe we talked about this one at some point, but
1305. 01:43:18 It is you are the brand by mike kim
1306. 01:43:23 I
1307. 01:43:25 have realized with the
1308. 01:43:27 Because that for a long time I had kind of had this thought
1309. 01:43:31 That the ideal company is in the attach to an individual
1310. 01:43:35 And there's just a bunch of people who are contributing and I still think there's a lot of value contributing in a team
1311. 01:43:42 But do it in a way I guess my my evolved thinking at this point is do it in a way where it emphasizes the
1312. 01:43:48 individuality of the people on the team where the the
1313. 01:43:51 Some of the parts is great is greater than the the is greater than the individual that the the whole is greater than the some of the parts
1314. 01:43:59 That's how the saying goes
1315. 01:44:01 But as it pertains to a lot of the stuff that I do
1316. 01:44:03 I'm recognizing I just need to kind of lean into
1317. 01:44:06 my brand
1318. 01:44:08 I am
1319. 01:44:10 who I am
1320. 01:44:12 and
1321. 01:44:13 Being authentic with that I feel like I try to do that already but as it pertains to like faith-based productivity and
1322. 01:44:19 I'm trying to do some new things with that. I've got a
1323. 01:44:23 Assistant that helps me with all the editing of those sermon sketching up videos now
1324. 01:44:27 I sent out my first newsletter and over a year, you know, I want to do more of those and
1325. 01:44:32 I feel like this this book being highly recommended from
1326. 01:44:35 Someone who I consider to be a mentor of mine
1327. 01:44:38 You know that that there's a lot for me to learn
1328. 01:44:41 about
1329. 01:44:42 Communicating authentically about who I am so I'm gonna try and
1330. 01:44:46 Try and get a little bit better at that. Nice
1331. 01:44:49 Sounds interesting. It should be interesting. We'll see. I'm gonna read this as a
1332. 01:44:54 As we record this I'm leaving for the max.conference this afternoon
1333. 01:44:58 So that's the one that I'm I'm bringing with me
1334. 01:45:00 All right, so thank you everybody who has listened to this episode
1335. 01:45:07 Thank you to everyone who
1336. 01:45:10 Contributes financially to keep the show on the air
1337. 01:45:13 We really appreciate you paying members if you want to join those paying members and have our undying gratitude
1338. 01:45:19 You can go to club.bookworm.fm
1339. 01:45:21 Five bucks a month 50 bucks a year
1340. 01:45:24 Like I said helps us pay for the hosting keep the lights on buy the books that we're reading
1341. 01:45:29 etc
1342. 01:45:30 You do get a couple of perks if you decide that you want to support the show that way you can get access to all of the
1343. 01:45:36 Mind node files that I take all these notes and I upload both the pdf version and the mind node file
1344. 01:45:42 So if you only use my notes is kind of like the basis you can edit those
1345. 01:45:46 And you get access to some gapbook episodes that
1346. 01:45:50 Joe recorded before he started fixing up a house
1347. 01:45:53 You get a bookworm wallpaper stuff like that
1348. 01:45:56 So club that bookworm.fm if you want to support the show
1349. 01:46:00 Awesome
1350. 01:46:02 And if you are one of the amazing people who has made the wonderful decision to read books and do that along with us
1351. 01:46:09 Instead of waiting for the episode to release first
1352. 01:46:12 Then you need to purchase courage as calling by ryan holiday and we'll discuss that with you in a couple weeks