143: The Messy Middle by Scott Belsky

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1. 00:00:00 So live listeners last time know that I had some serious issues with audio hijack
2. 00:00:04 Which seemed to have magically sorted themselves right before we hopped on this call. So that's great. Yeah
3. 00:00:10 I
4. 00:00:12 Really was expecting you to have all sorts of issues Mike and yet it worked scary now. What do we do?
5. 00:00:16 Now we record a podcast I guess
6. 00:00:19 Okay
7. 00:00:22 Before we do that let's talk about YouTube so
8. 00:00:25 I've been going through part-time YouTube Academy, and it's awesome learning all sorts of stuff shooting all sorts of B roll
9. 00:00:31 but I
10. 00:00:33 Understand you have done some stuff with YouTube too. Yeah, I'm taking a step out there and doing something that is
11. 00:00:41 borderline scary in the world of like content creator land and
12. 00:00:46 That is that I'm taking the video courses that I've created and
13. 00:00:52 sold in the past and
14. 00:00:55 Making them free and putting them on YouTube
15. 00:00:57 so as we're recording this the first of
16. 00:01:01 If you follow me, you know that I've got two versions of working with Omni focus and
17. 00:01:05 There's one that was recorded in 2016, which is fairly extensive
18. 00:01:10 But right now I'm in the middle of releasing one video a day from the 2019 version of that which shockingly there's a lot of
19. 00:01:18 That's video course that remains
20. 00:01:21 relevant in
21. 00:01:23 Omni focus land. I don't know if that's a
22. 00:01:26 good thing or a bad thing
23. 00:01:29 But I know there's a ton of it that is still
24. 00:01:31 Almost picture perfect for what is in Omni focus today
25. 00:01:36 so if that's of interest to you you can check out my YouTube channel and
26. 00:01:40 You'll see those videos releasing one every day
27. 00:01:44 So I guess by the time this releases that almost that entire course will be up by the time this releases. There you go super fun
28. 00:01:51 Yeah, I'm on the
29. 00:01:53 The test flight for the new version of Omni focus. Yeah, but it has been taking forever to
30. 00:02:00 Come out. Yeah. Yeah, it's a pretty ambitious rewrite, but in terms of functionality
31. 00:02:07 It's I don't know. I mean, I don't use it daily. So it's not fair for me to say there's there's nothing new there
32. 00:02:15 but it's not
33. 00:02:17 It's it's it's gonna be a lot of like
34. 00:02:20 Behind the scenes under the hood type stuff is my understanding. So it kind of sets it up
35. 00:02:25 For from a technical perspective for future success
36. 00:02:29 But if you're expecting a complete revamp of the entire Omni focus system, that's not what you're gonna get
37. 00:02:35 No, come on boards my knowledge. I
38. 00:02:39 Think there was way back at one point they talked about having the ability to share
39. 00:02:47 projects and work on them collaboratively and
40. 00:02:49 That never came to fruition and I feel like that's the one that I continue to see people talk about but it's yeah
41. 00:02:57 It's not there yet is what it is
42. 00:02:59 Anyway, if you're interested in that course that I put together you can go check out YouTube super fun
43. 00:03:04 We will definitely link to that in the show notes
44. 00:03:07 I mentioned the part-time youtuber Academy. I've also been doing a bunch of stuff behind the scenes to make more YouTube videos
45. 00:03:14 I think I committed to the time this one goes live that there would be at least one new
46. 00:03:21 non-sermon sketch note video
47. 00:03:24 As a distant action item follow up here
48. 00:03:27 So I've got a little over a week to get that out and all the pieces are in place to do that
49. 00:03:34 It'll be good. It'll be pretty close, but I think I can still do that
50. 00:03:40 So at this point, can you tell us what it's about?
51. 00:03:43 Because if if you're gonna if you're gonna commit to this you can tell us what it's about because it will have released
52. 00:03:49 Mmm. That's a good point. I have a bunch of ideas. I haven't decided which one to film yet. Probably need to do that like
53. 00:03:55 tomorrow, but
54. 00:03:58 No, I can't I can't tell you what it's about you excited
55. 00:04:02 But I have lots of ideas
56. 00:04:05 I've been doing lots of writing. I just started the ship 30 for 30
57. 00:04:09 course as yeah part-time youtuber Academy is wrapping up. I've also signed up for another course which overlaps it by a week
58. 00:04:17 Perfect, so I'm busy and then after that I signed up for another course
59. 00:04:23 Are you familiar with pencil pirates? No, what is pencil pirates? I believe the website is
60. 00:04:31 pencil - pirates calm, but it is
61. 00:04:35 Essentially a course on
62. 00:04:37 Sketching your ideas to communicate more effectively. It looks a lot the website anyways looks a lot like
63. 00:04:44 sketch note type stuff and
64. 00:04:46 That's something that I do on a regular basis anyways
65. 00:04:50 So I feel like this is going to all three of these things are gonna come together in my
66. 00:04:57 final YouTube
67. 00:05:00 Vibe I guess for lack of a better word. Okay, so I don't have all the custom drawings and things for the YouTube video
68. 00:05:07 I'm gonna release in the next eight days. That one's probably just gonna be short talking head type video
69. 00:05:12 But this is kind of where I see all this going for me is
70. 00:05:16 Consistently writing and then that writing ends up as podcast topics as news newsletter articles
71. 00:05:22 maybe some blog posts
72. 00:05:24 YouTube videos and
73. 00:05:26 Then the visual aspect of that building off of the stuff that I've been doing was sketch noting to make those YouTube videos a little more
74. 00:05:33 interesting
75. 00:05:35 Sure, I'm excited for you. I'm really itching to see these me too. You'll do great with it
76. 00:05:41 Thanks
77. 00:05:44 But it that is it for follow-up
78. 00:05:47 So if it seems like we're kind of talking about lots of non follow-up things in order to fill the time
79. 00:05:54 We kind of are because there was nothing from the last book follow-up list was exactly empty. Yeah
80. 00:06:01 We're done with it now. I'm not sure what kind of follow-up you can have from a Victor Frankl book, but I
81. 00:06:11 Will reiterate if you missed that one definitely go back and listen to the episode and I
82. 00:06:17 Would also say definitely go back and read that book. Yes
83. 00:06:21 The life was the the last one that we we covered
84. 00:06:24 But today we are covering the messy middle by Scott Belsky
85. 00:06:32 which is a
86. 00:06:35 very very big book
87. 00:06:37 To monster. Do you have any idea?
88. 00:06:39 How many words are in this book? I'm kind of curious. Did you figure it out? No, it's like
89. 00:06:47 70 some pages, but I don't know how many words are in it. Yeah, it's it's a lot and
90. 00:06:52 the format of the book is
91. 00:06:56 sort of like
92. 00:06:58 the Seth Godin book that we covered. What was it the creative?
93. 00:07:02 The practice the practice. That's what it was
94. 00:07:05 where it's a whole bunch of really short
95. 00:07:08 chapters and
96. 00:07:10 basically sharing a single truth a single idea and
97. 00:07:16 Very much like Seth Godin. There's a lot of stuff that is condensed here
98. 00:07:23 into these short chapters
99. 00:07:26 This book is 380 pages
100. 00:07:28 The pages are pretty small print. There's a section in the middle where the print gets even smaller
101. 00:07:35 But I would argue that it could have been probably three times as long
102. 00:07:42 Do you think that's accurate? It could be yeah, I mean there's there's a bank of if you look through like the table of contents in this book and
103. 00:07:50 There are so many points here. That's like, okay. There's three pages on this one like dude
104. 00:07:56 That could have been a chapter easy very easy and then you go to the next one like oh that that could have been a chapter
105. 00:08:03 It's probably more than three times like this could have been a multi-volume set very easily
106. 00:08:08 yeah
107. 00:08:10 Because what he's doing is he's condensing his
108. 00:08:13 experience and the things that he's learned into these
109. 00:08:18 smaller chapters, but
110. 00:08:20 the positive side of that is there's a lot of meat in this book you can
111. 00:08:28 Tackle it chapter by chapter. You don't have to crank through all 380 pages necessarily
112. 00:08:34 That's the good news. The bad news is we did
113. 00:08:38 Yes, yeah, which is why I was curious about the number of words because if the average
114. 00:08:44 nonfiction book is 60,000 words
115. 00:08:47 this is
116. 00:08:49 probably
117. 00:08:51 90 plus would be my guess
118. 00:08:53 Do you think it's that or do you think it's higher than that?
119. 00:08:56 I think it's higher than that but also the formatting of the book likes each title page half of the page is just the title and
120. 00:09:04 Some of it's a pretty big book and the pages are big but also a lot of them are not filled up
121. 00:09:10 Like the second or third page for example the end of the chapter they don't go all the way down to the bottom
122. 00:09:15 So it's really hard to gauge how much white space is in this book if I had to guess it's probably a hundred twenty thousand words
123. 00:09:23 It's a lot. It's a lot. I feel like I've seen this on this is what I've been kind of trying to find I feel like it's on
124. 00:09:30 Amazon
125. 00:09:32 Somewhere like I feel like I've seen the word counts. That's what I thought too, but I couldn't find it. I know that there's
126. 00:09:39 What was it? I know that at one point they had it
127. 00:09:45 Hear me typing looking. I know that at one point like their API would let you pull it like you could get the word count from that
128. 00:09:53 Mm-hmm interesting kind of cruising through here, and I'm not
129. 00:09:56 Not seeing not seeing it dude. All right. Well TLDR. It's long
130. 00:10:03 So recognize that if you're gonna pick this one up if you are in any sort of I
131. 00:10:09 Would say creative or entrepreneurial field
132. 00:10:12 There's a lot that's gonna be relevant here for you
133. 00:10:18 Recognize at the beginning Scott Belsky's
134. 00:10:22 Perspective as he writes this book. He is the author of another book called making ideas happen
135. 00:10:31 and he is also one of the founders of the Behance Network which was a
136. 00:10:36 network for creative professionals that got purchased by Adobe for
137. 00:10:42 150 million dollars I think yep, yeah, which sounds like a lot of money
138. 00:10:50 until
139. 00:10:52 You start comparing it to some of the other acquisitions out there like what's that for 19 billion dollars?
140. 00:11:00 Soon to be Twitter. Yeah, and it's not fair to compare that side to side, but the name of the book comes from
141. 00:11:08 Scott basically saying that people in the startup world specifically
142. 00:11:14 They like to talk about how they started with nothing and they like to share the end of the story where they achieve their success
143. 00:11:22 nobody talks about the middle and
144. 00:11:24 The messy middle as the name implies is it's it's not
145. 00:11:29 simple upward trajectory. There is a lot of missteps and a lot of
146. 00:11:34 mistakes that you make along the way a lot of small course corrections and there is this visual the
147. 00:11:41 Relative joy of creating it's called right at the beginning where it starts up high like this then goes down and then like goes up a little bit
148. 00:11:49 and
149. 00:11:50 It goes down again and kind of over the long-term trends back upwards
150. 00:11:55 But I feel like anyone who has tried to create anything online can instantly relate to this visual
151. 00:12:01 Easily because it seems like oh, I got this new thing. Let's go for it and then
152. 00:12:05 you realize like you have to
153. 00:12:08 Succeed with it and keep going and it's like okay, then there's like this big dip of
154. 00:12:12 despair almost where you realize just how big and complicated and and
155. 00:12:19 drawn out this thing could be and
156. 00:12:22 You have this like almost stair step with some some valleys and maybe some higher peaks and like you have some of that going on
157. 00:12:29 Until you slowly work your way up hopefully not everybody does that but that's the intent right to slowly work your way up that graph and
158. 00:12:39 People like to talk about the very beginning. Oh, I had this great idea and then like to talk about how we sold it for a billion dollars
159. 00:12:46 but they don't tell you what happened between those two points and
160. 00:12:51 Between those two points is exactly where he's he's getting with this book. Yep. So recognize the perspective like I said, he's a
161. 00:12:58 He's in the startup world basically
162. 00:13:01 But if you are put off by that culture or that doesn't appeal to you at all
163. 00:13:06 I would argue there's still a lot for you in this this book. So give it a shot
164. 00:13:10 That being said let's jump into the contents here. It's broken down into three different sections
165. 00:13:18 endure optimize and the final mile
166. 00:13:20 endure is the first one. So let's start there and
167. 00:13:26 this one
168. 00:13:29 feels long until you get past it and you get into the optimize section and then that one is easily the
169. 00:13:36 the the big biggest section of the the book and then the final mile is the the last one and that one's pretty pretty short
170. 00:13:46 But endure is is interesting
171. 00:13:49 This I started reading this just as on the day job. We were going through a lot of the stuff that he was talking about
172. 00:13:57 so I
173. 00:14:00 actually bought this book and gifted it to somebody that I work with
174. 00:14:06 Because the first time I came across something I was like, huh
175. 00:14:09 He's really describing the situation that we're in and the second time
176. 00:14:12 I'm like, wow, this is really relevant and the third time I'm like, okay, this is getting creepy before fourth time
177. 00:14:19 I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna buy it
178. 00:14:21 I hesitated to give somebody a 380 page book and say here you should read this
179. 00:14:27 but I did yeah
180. 00:14:30 And it's it's it's because
181. 00:14:33 you know
182. 00:14:35 Scott
183. 00:14:36 Belsky was the founder and lead of the hands
184. 00:14:40 That was sold to Adobe right like we were saying
185. 00:14:43 but he also was a part of a group that was like helping companies and
186. 00:14:49 Consulting and it was like startups and such so he's done a lot of that consulting thing with a mini mini companies
187. 00:14:55 even after
188. 00:14:57 He did some things with Adobe so because of that he has seen this process
189. 00:15:02 up close and personal many many many times and
190. 00:15:08 Knows what he's talking about which is why as you read this
191. 00:15:11 It really doesn't seem to matter where you're at whether it's with your day job
192. 00:15:17 Or whether it's with some things you do on your own off off hours
193. 00:15:21 Like it seems like there's something in here that's going to strike a chord
194. 00:15:25 Whether you're there now or whether you were there or whether it's in the future like you you can see this
195. 00:15:31 Just about any at any point in your in your walk here. So that might be why
196. 00:15:37 Mike yeah, but you're right gifting a
197. 00:15:40 370 380 page book to somebody is always like huh
198. 00:15:44 Should I do this?
199. 00:15:46 This is not gonna be comfortable for you. Yeah
200. 00:15:49 in general I
201. 00:15:52 Try not to
202. 00:15:54 Give people books and say here you should read this. I found every time I do that
203. 00:16:00 People don't read them for the for the most part
204. 00:16:04 Right if people ask me for recommendations. I try to get back to them and say these are the ones that I would
205. 00:16:10 Recommend and then leave it to them to pick up the books themselves
206. 00:16:14 By the way, this is totally off topic, but I do not loan out my books
207. 00:16:19 I've had a couple people ask me hey, can I borrow a book? I'm like nope. I'll buy it for you
208. 00:16:24 Yes, yeah every time yeah
209. 00:16:27 In this intersection there are again
210. 00:16:33 separate breakdowns, so there's a whole bunch of chapters here there's
211. 00:16:37 If you're thinking about this in the mind map section like there's different colors for endure optimizing the final mile
212. 00:16:44 But then under endure there are
213. 00:16:46 subgroupings before you get to the chapters so the subgroupings here
214. 00:16:50 I'm not gonna read all of them for optimize because there's a million of them
215. 00:16:52 But just to give you an idea how this book is broken down
216. 00:16:55 Under endure leading through the anguish and the unknown
217. 00:16:59 Strengthening your resolve and embracing the long game and then you get into the individual chapters
218. 00:17:06 Which there are a gazillion and then in my mind map you get the individual ideas that I thought were worth jotting down for each and every
219. 00:17:14 Chapter I think there are five there's roughly five chapters total
220. 00:17:19 Where I did not jot anything down other than the title
221. 00:17:24 Otherwise almost every single one of these has at least a couple of different points which kind of illustrates how dense this book is
222. 00:17:32 I also stopped trying to write down
223. 00:17:35 One liners isn't the right description, but there's a lot of things that Scott says in a certain way that is very
224. 00:17:44 distinct to him and
225. 00:17:47 I
226. 00:17:48 like the way that he describes it, but
227. 00:17:51 They come so quick that I just stopped trying to yeah log them all
228. 00:17:56 You would have a lot written down. It's a seven page table of contents by the way
229. 00:18:02 That's just trying to detail out the chapters and headings and stuff. It's seven pages
230. 00:18:07 Seven big pages is a big print either. Yeah, so the pages are large the print is not
231. 00:18:13 Correct. Do you have the book right next to you?
232. 00:18:17 You want to like show how thick it is on on the stream here. Yeah, it's so here's
233. 00:18:23 This monster's if I can get it in here
234. 00:18:26 Yeah, it's it's some stay it's a couple inches thick. It's also pretty big and all of the text is pretty tiny
235. 00:18:35 Yep, it's little
236. 00:18:37 I can get this to go the right way. Yep. Anyway. Yeah, it's it is a substantial book
237. 00:18:43 So when we say it's 300 and you and I talked about this ahead of time. It's like it's a 370 80 page book
238. 00:18:49 But there's not a whole lot
239. 00:18:54 I mean there's there are some blank pages in here, but the text is so small that it makes up for it
240. 00:18:59 So yes, yeah, it's it's not a very quick
241. 00:19:02 Not a quick one
242. 00:19:05 So what we've done is we have just grabbed a bunch of different chapter titles basically
243. 00:19:13 From these different sections. We're not gonna try and encapsulate everything that's in this book obviously that would be a
244. 00:19:19 12 hour episode just trying to summarize this beast
245. 00:19:23 Yep, but in and doer there are two things that we wanted to touch on the first one
246. 00:19:31 I picked and that is to prompt clarity with questions and I picked this one
247. 00:19:38 Just because I really like this whole idea of asking better questions
248. 00:19:44 so I actually reached out to Mark champagne
249. 00:19:50 author of personal Socrates and
250. 00:19:53 Was like hey, you want to come on focused and he's like yeah, sure. Let's do it
251. 00:19:59 Which kind of caught me off guard, but turned out to be a really cool episode
252. 00:20:03 Yeah, so I will link to that in the the show
253. 00:20:08 Notes here, but his whole thing obviously personal Socrates is it a single question could completely change your life
254. 00:20:16 And the whole book was on asking better questions
255. 00:20:19 And so that's what I thought of when I got to this question or this section
256. 00:20:23 A couple of things that jotted down here is that breakthrough often comes from a new question or problem to solve
257. 00:20:29 If you're struggling to find an answer change your question and the perfect question is the key to clarity and these are all
258. 00:20:37 different ways of saying yeah, keep asking questions from a business perspective as well so
259. 00:20:44 personal Socrates
260. 00:20:47 personal is in the title felt very
261. 00:20:49 Individual and I liked how at the beginning of this book Scott's talking about doing this from a business perspective as well
262. 00:20:56 Yeah, because he's he's really jumping into
263. 00:20:59 The process and again, these these are small chapters like we're only talking about a three page section here
264. 00:21:06 of prompt clarity with questions, but
265. 00:21:08 in this process that particular piece is a part of the the bigger heading of strengthening your resolve
266. 00:21:16 Which I think is absolutely fitting in the way that he is pitching it because
267. 00:21:20 asking these questions
268. 00:21:22 Around what is it your business should be doing? What is the product? What are your customers trying to?
269. 00:21:28 Like what what problem are you trying to solve like those types of questions
270. 00:21:33 And those aren't all what he was saying but that type of process
271. 00:21:37 Is one that as you're going through it
272. 00:21:39 It helps you get a clear head as far as what to do and how to move
273. 00:21:44 forward and the clearer you are
274. 00:21:47 about that path forward
275. 00:21:50 And the more definition you have to that that's where some of that resolve strengthening can come
276. 00:21:57 Like that's that's all tied together. Thus the tour
277. 00:22:01 In the same place. So i'm absolutely with you like asking these questions like it's not something i've done
278. 00:22:05 A lot of in the past at least not prior to reading personal Socrates
279. 00:22:10 That that book kind of changed my
280. 00:22:13 Path on that and now i ask questions all the time
281. 00:22:17 And i have learned that i don't like that
282. 00:22:20 Because you have to confront yourself quite a bit when you start doing it, which is good
283. 00:22:27 It's just uncomfortable sometimes so yeah, so when you say you don't like it
284. 00:22:31 You mean that it's uncomfortable or it's challenging but not that
285. 00:22:35 You're going to stop doing it anytime soon
286. 00:22:39 It's the childish view of i don't like it but the adult version of i'm going to power through it anyway
287. 00:22:45 Yep, yep, yep
288. 00:22:47 And a lot of it it's kind of shocking to me as i reflect on personal Socrates and i reflect on this book
289. 00:22:52 there's a lot
290. 00:22:55 of it coming down to
291. 00:22:57 basically just self-awareness
292. 00:22:59 and self-awareness in a business context is different because
293. 00:23:04 You maybe have a bunch of other areas and a bunch of other people that you really need to make sure that you're seeing things the the right way
294. 00:23:12 It's a lot more potential
295. 00:23:15 responsibility
296. 00:23:17 but the
297. 00:23:19 Process is the same and the only thing you can't do in either scenario is bury your head in the sand
298. 00:23:25 To pretend that it's not the way it is
299. 00:23:27 You got to right confront the brutal reality
300. 00:23:31 And there's lots of little things in these other chapters which will probably come up like as we're talking about this and
301. 00:23:37 Wanting to hide from what's really there in the previous chapter he talks about insecurity work
302. 00:23:45 Which is the work that you do with no intended outcome doesn't move the ball forward in any
303. 00:23:53 Specific way, but it's quick enough that you can do it unconsciously multiple times per day
304. 00:23:57 and is the thing that you default to
305. 00:23:59 when
306. 00:24:01 You want to avoid something basically when you're trying to procrastinate
307. 00:24:05 tackling the thing that is really important
308. 00:24:09 And uh, it's kind of interesting for me to see
309. 00:24:14 how that manifests differently
310. 00:24:16 in an organization or a company than it does in uh
311. 00:24:22 uh, an individual's life like i've dealt with it myself from
312. 00:24:27 A knowledge worker perspective and i'm working at home and i'm trying to create things
313. 00:24:31 But it's a little bit different when you've got a lot of moving pieces
314. 00:24:37 On the the chessboard
315. 00:24:40 Yeah for sure for sure
316. 00:24:42 Yeah, and one of the other
317. 00:24:45 So if we if we kind of continue in this endure piece
318. 00:24:49 Unless there's something more you want to say here, Mike because i feel like this next one is when we could spend some time on
319. 00:24:53 Yeah, go for the
320. 00:24:55 the the idea of
321. 00:24:57 And how does he put it here sometimes a reset is the only way
322. 00:25:01 forward so think about the
323. 00:25:05 The basis of this book you've got a company or a product or something that you're building
324. 00:25:12 The beginning is exciting the end is exciting the part in the middle is a challenge. So what do you do?
325. 00:25:18 in the middle when you hit these challenges and
326. 00:25:21 His point here is that sometimes
327. 00:25:24 Whenever you've got everything moving forward and it's not working
328. 00:25:29 And you're having issues with it and it continues to be a pain
329. 00:25:32 Sometimes the best thing you can do
330. 00:25:35 Is completely reset the entire process a lot of times if you're in bigger companies
331. 00:25:39 A reorganization or something happens or entire departments get dropped and and moved around and such like stuff like that happens
332. 00:25:46 and
333. 00:25:48 We think of things like that as a bad thing, but it can be a very good thing
334. 00:25:53 If you're willing to see it for what it is because sometimes that reset
335. 00:25:58 Or as Mike put in his newsletter a pivot
336. 00:26:01 Whenever you make that change or that slight diversion from where you were going to begin with like that can make all the difference
337. 00:26:08 Like that can completely change the way that your whole company and product operates
338. 00:26:12 in a very good way
339. 00:26:14 And can help you get onto the path of being successful with it and getting through that difficult season in the middle, right?
340. 00:26:20 So that's that's one that I know like I'm in the middle of a major one right now with all my online stuff and
341. 00:26:26 There's stuff on the channel like we were talking about earlier that's going on. So if that's
342. 00:26:31 Something that's got to happen then you need to jump in head first
343. 00:26:35 But it's not always fun to do that and and having the guts to say
344. 00:26:41 I need to do a reset or I need to do a pivot is not always easy to do
345. 00:26:44 It's not always easy. I would actually say it's almost never easy
346. 00:26:49 but it's true
347. 00:26:52 By the time you realize
348. 00:26:54 Maybe I should pivot. It's absolutely necessary
349. 00:26:57 I would argue
350. 00:26:59 Yep, I
351. 00:27:00 Seems like once that thought crosses your mind the answers. Yes. Yep
352. 00:27:04 Yeah, it's it's not
353. 00:27:08 it's past the point of debating at
354. 00:27:11 By the time you typically realize it at least in for me. I think that's that's true
355. 00:27:17 But also like you were talking about there's a lot of value in embracing that
356. 00:27:22 the things that are valuable and worthwhile in life
357. 00:27:28 It seems to me are always difficult to do
358. 00:27:33 It's never
359. 00:27:36 easy. It's rarely fun
360. 00:27:38 But you just have to
361. 00:27:42 Push through it and get to the other side
362. 00:27:45 It requires a a vision
363. 00:27:48 Knowing that this is a season and this too will pass
364. 00:27:51 and believing that what you are doing is the right thing long term for
365. 00:27:58 In this case the organization, but it could be the the family the team whatever
366. 00:28:05 Doesn't make it any easier in the moment to say
367. 00:28:08 We have to make this really difficult decision
368. 00:28:11 And people won't understand sometimes when you say trust me. This is in your best interest
369. 00:28:17 But that's what leadership is
370. 00:28:20 the more I study it the more I see it
371. 00:28:24 in action the the things that
372. 00:28:27 Really help you level up in life
373. 00:28:31 are the ones that
374. 00:28:34 You tend to want to avoid
375. 00:28:36 But when you can't or when you choose not to they cause you to rise to the occasion
376. 00:28:41 And when you're called upon to get to that level
377. 00:28:46 You almost don't even know if you've got it in you at the point that you're being asked to do it
378. 00:28:52 It's really really scary, but then once you do it
379. 00:28:55 it's like
380. 00:28:58 You're
381. 00:29:00 Like a rubber band being stretched out of shape. That's a bad thing, but this is in a good thing
382. 00:29:03 It's like you're never going back to the way that you were
383. 00:29:05 your capacity has now
384. 00:29:08 Increased you are a totally different person than you were prior to this crisis
385. 00:29:14 Happening and when you think about
386. 00:29:17 Everything good at every sort of transition from one season to another any sort of upgrade
387. 00:29:24 Is going to require that kind of crisis and that kind of change? You've got to go through it
388. 00:29:31 so
389. 00:29:32 Once you understand that this is part of the process and
390. 00:29:35 You know that this is kind of the the gateway
391. 00:29:38 This is the thing that's going to get me from where I am to where I need to be
392. 00:29:44 You don't have to dread it doesn't make it easier in the moment sometimes
393. 00:29:49 But if you if you can step back and realize how necessary it is and big picture view
394. 00:29:53 you know
395. 00:29:55 you can
396. 00:29:57 create and manufacture the
397. 00:29:59 The motivation that you need to get through it without
398. 00:30:02 being so emotionally distraught
399. 00:30:04 There's a section later on I was trying to find it
400. 00:30:07 But I am not
401. 00:30:09 Seeing it it's in the optimize section, but he gets to where he's talking about
402. 00:30:13 uh
403. 00:30:15 Putting yourself around people who have been through a lot
404. 00:30:17 who have been through a lot of difficulties and
405. 00:30:21 you know
406. 00:30:23 something kind of along the same lines is
407. 00:30:26 uh, there's a there's a quote by csluice that my csluice that my wife has
408. 00:30:31 on the wall see if I can get this right love is something more stern and
409. 00:30:36 Strict I think it's strict maybe splendid then mere kindness
410. 00:30:42 and
411. 00:30:44 That's always struck me a little bit like wait what but when you think about it whenever you
412. 00:30:49 When you've got someone who truly loves you
413. 00:30:52 Whether that's romantically or as a friend
414. 00:30:57 then
415. 00:30:58 They are willing to tell you when things are wrong or or go through the difficult things with you
416. 00:31:03 And then when you come out of that you're in a much better place because you've been through something difficult together
417. 00:31:08 This is this is the classic
418. 00:31:11 when you've got friends who are
419. 00:31:13 Able to stick around and they're around you all the time when things are easy
420. 00:31:17 But the moment things get hard they run away
421. 00:31:20 Like that's that's exactly what we're talking about with that anyway
422. 00:31:23 But once you've been through those things those friendships and those people are the ones that are really tight to you like it
423. 00:31:30 It's almost painful to not have them around
424. 00:31:33 And this is very similar to that in that whenever you have folks with you
425. 00:31:38 Who've been through those things like you can grow from that when you yourself are going through those things
426. 00:31:43 You grow from that and you become a much better person at the other side
427. 00:31:46 so
428. 00:31:47 Even if this messy middle is something that's painful and you really don't want to do it and you want to skip it
429. 00:31:52 Like a lot of times it's that middle part that is what makes that final success
430. 00:31:58 Right if you you you really can't skip this
431. 00:32:01 No and have something that's going to endure you you really need to
432. 00:32:05 To deal with these difficulties in order to get the learnings to have that success
433. 00:32:11 Exactly and going back to the image at the beginning
434. 00:32:15 I feel
435. 00:32:18 A lot of the pain that people feel going through the messy middle really is just improper expectations setting
436. 00:32:26 You start something and you expect it to be smooth sailing you expect it to go well and when it doesn't go according to plan
437. 00:32:32 You have a choice to either keep going or say this isn't what I signed up for and quit
438. 00:32:39 and
439. 00:32:41 What scott is arguing for in the scope of the entire book is
440. 00:32:46 That moment where you have that identity crisis and you're not sure what to do because this is hard
441. 00:32:51 Recognizing that's part of the process and just keep going and that there will actually be multiples of these
442. 00:32:56 Then it's kind of like oh, okay. So this is normal. I guess it's really not that big a deal
443. 00:33:02 Maybe I shouldn't freak out quite so much about it
444. 00:33:04 I think the section you were maybe trying to
445. 00:33:09 Allude to was hire people who have endured adversity because adversity matures you right right?
446. 00:33:16 Cool. All right. So let's jump into the next section here because
447. 00:33:21 Who knows how long we'll talk about optimize?
448. 00:33:24 I really like that section. There's some other stuff I want to get to but just continuing that topic
449. 00:33:31 There's another thing further down in here, which I thought was really good and relevant to
450. 00:33:39 What we're talking about here in the clearing the path to solution section
451. 00:33:44 Where it talks about a lot of big problems don't get solved because we can small solve smaller problems faster
452. 00:33:50 and
453. 00:33:52 When you're talking about adversity and pushing through things
454. 00:33:55 if you view that as
455. 00:33:58 I must be on the wrong path the fact that this is causing me some pain
456. 00:34:04 This must be wrong. Well, number one. I mean just because you're experiencing some pain
457. 00:34:09 Maybe that you are doing the wrong thing and you don't want to continue to burn your hand on the stove
458. 00:34:14 So recognize like if itself afflicted and stop doing some of those things
459. 00:34:18 But assuming that this is the right thing and this is just part of the process
460. 00:34:22 Then you typically want to keep going with that
461. 00:34:24 But the natural thing and I think this is something that we all do in some way shape or form related to procrastination
462. 00:34:32 Is instead of embracing the big thing that we know is going to be hard
463. 00:34:37 We find the small thing just so we can say there. I did something
464. 00:34:42 Yep
465. 00:34:44 I'm guilty of this
466. 00:34:46 I'm kind of curious
467. 00:34:48 You know how you've seen this?
468. 00:34:50 Manifesting in your own life, but literally just talking about this was somebody in the the day job
469. 00:34:56 How we have all of these issues that we track
470. 00:34:58 And we have these regular
471. 00:35:01 EOS style level 10 meetings every week
472. 00:35:04 And it becomes meeting time again for department. It's like oh, I haven't looked at this since last week
473. 00:35:10 Well, I want to show that I did something so you scan the list and you find the one
474. 00:35:14 That you can quick take care of and mark as complete before the meeting is there. See I did something
475. 00:35:21 That's not the complete story that you tell in your head at the time, but that's ultimately the way it
476. 00:35:26 The way it manifests. So how does this play out for you?
477. 00:35:30 Oh, I'm terrible at like finding
478. 00:35:34 The little things that improve like so take so much of like the writing and video stuff and such that we do
479. 00:35:40 I I will regularly justify
480. 00:35:43 like some of my script and automation stuff
481. 00:35:46 Saying that I'm making something or building something that I can then write about later
482. 00:35:51 And it could be something very small and very simple
483. 00:35:55 To make my life easier, but I will justify it saying this is a thing that I can use for later
484. 00:36:00 And then I'm actually making progress towards these these endeavors
485. 00:36:04 and and then I
486. 00:36:06 spend the 30 minutes to an hour on it and then
487. 00:36:09 I get distracted by something else and then I go do
488. 00:36:12 Something completely different forget about it and it never has anything to do with
489. 00:36:16 An article or a video. It's like oh, but I did something and it was
490. 00:36:20 Theoretically going to help, but it gets me absolutely nowhere
491. 00:36:25 So I do this all the time. It's it's terrible
492. 00:36:29 Yeah, we are kind of naturally wired to seek the path of least resistance
493. 00:36:35 Maybe that's what my youtube video will be. It's one of those ideas I captured previously
494. 00:36:41 So we look for the place where we experience the least amount of pushback and we say I'm going to do that
495. 00:36:47 But everything that's worthwhile doing
496. 00:36:50 Resistance is part of the deal
497. 00:36:53 And in fact, you could gauge the worthwhile things based on the amount of resistance that you encounter
498. 00:36:59 Yep
499. 00:37:01 So that's challenging to me, but then also coupled with that the first
500. 00:37:05 chapter in this section is
501. 00:37:07 resources over
502. 00:37:10 resourcefulness over resources
503. 00:37:12 It's kind of a mouthful for me to say today. I don't know why
504. 00:37:15 But the difference here is resourcefulness is I need to do this thing. I don't know how I'm going to get it done
505. 00:37:23 But I'll just use what I've got and figure it out
506. 00:37:26 Versus resources is I have everything that I need in order to do the thing
507. 00:37:33 And we were talking about youtube earlier
508. 00:37:36 This is
509. 00:37:38 One of the things that a lot of people myself included
510. 00:37:41 Fall into when they're getting into youtube. Ollie was talking about people want to know
511. 00:37:45 What's the gear that I should have and
512. 00:37:48 all the setup and stuff like that and
513. 00:37:52 He says it doesn't matter just start with your phone and start making videos
514. 00:37:57 Right and I've actually had a DM
515. 00:38:00 Mess it or DM thread back and forth before I even signed up with the course with with Ollie probably his team through his twitter account, but
516. 00:38:07 Basically saying, you know, I'm interested in this course, but I'm not going to be able to make a bunch of videos right now
517. 00:38:14 So is this still for me like oh, yeah, yeah, it's fine
518. 00:38:16 But the messaging in the course is always like just do the thing just do the thing just do the thing
519. 00:38:21 Right they keep sending these calendar invites for people these last couple weeks who haven't published a video yet
520. 00:38:27 So I keep I keep getting those those invites
521. 00:38:32 But I feel kind of bad because that's kind of the way the cohort is built, but also
522. 00:38:36 I set up front, you know, I wasn't gonna be able to do it
523. 00:38:39 Right till right till later
524. 00:38:41 So that that's
525. 00:38:44 A way that that can manifest though and I've noticed that myself is like well, I got to get the b-roll
526. 00:38:49 I got to do all this
527. 00:38:50 I have a vision for like what I want it to look like and how it's going to fit into everything else
528. 00:38:54 If I was just doing youtube, I would argue the better approach for me would just make make the thing get it out there
529. 00:39:01 But because I'm not really just trying to figure out youtube
530. 00:39:04 But I have a specific
531. 00:39:06 Strategy for it and how it feeds all the other things like I kind of know what I want this to look like already
532. 00:39:10 You really don't know what it's going to look like though until you start doing the thing
533. 00:39:14 That was the whole idea behind the newsletter that I sent out
534. 00:39:17 Is you got to do some things and you got to fail at some things and you got to deconstruct why you failed
535. 00:39:24 And then you start looking around for what are some other ways that I can do this
536. 00:39:27 How can I practice resourcefulness?
537. 00:39:30 Not just buy better gear and have the resources in order to do it
538. 00:39:35 And when you start looking around you see the things that are
539. 00:39:38 Parallel to what you are currently doing and a lot of those things
540. 00:39:42 As I've gone through my own career path and I'm like, oh, hey, actually that thing over there
541. 00:39:46 That looks pretty interesting. I think I'll try that
542. 00:39:48 Those have been some of the most rewarding experiences
543. 00:39:51 And not just my professional life but my personal life as well like podcasting was part of that
544. 00:39:57 Public speaking was part of that. Those were things that if you would have just asked me prior to
545. 00:40:01 starting to
546. 00:40:03 Take this approach. I would have been like, yeah, yeah. No, thanks. That's too public for me because I'm a pretty introverted person
547. 00:40:09 I wonder sometimes people who encounter my stuff online
548. 00:40:15 How what what they think I'm like in real life
549. 00:40:18 I'm sure it's very different than than reality
550. 00:40:22 I am always intrigued by that one as well. It's like, what is the public perception of me?
551. 00:40:29 Yeah, what do people think?
552. 00:40:31 Huh, I don't know. It's it's always
553. 00:40:33 a question mark, I think but I I'm with you in that it's easy for us as
554. 00:40:40 People who have like legitimate studios with cameras and microphones and gear and stuff all over the place
555. 00:40:46 Like it's easy for us to say like yeah, I need to get this before
556. 00:40:52 I can do that like before I can make quality youtube videos
557. 00:40:56 My camera is not as good as it should be like well
558. 00:40:59 I mean you've got a black magic camera in your office. I've got a sony 6400 like
559. 00:41:06 super nice microphones like
560. 00:41:10 There is no excuse at least for us now. I say that and yet I know
561. 00:41:14 I know of people who have done podcast recordings with just the ear pods that come with your phone
562. 00:41:22 and
563. 00:41:25 In a couple cases, I know
564. 00:41:27 Of people who are doing that and you would swear they're using like a high-end microphone
565. 00:41:32 Because of the way that they have edited that thing
566. 00:41:35 So i'm aware that it is possible to do that sort of thing
567. 00:41:39 I don't want to do that
568. 00:41:41 Because I like the gear
569. 00:41:43 But that's what a lot of us will do like I can't do that until this
570. 00:41:47 And really the answer here is like with the resourcefulness versus resources like instead of spending your resources on
571. 00:41:55 gear or
572. 00:41:57 Services in order to make something happen like just go do it like find a way to do it without that
573. 00:42:03 And don't make the excuse like it
574. 00:42:06 And this this is common too like even creators
575. 00:42:10 Whenever you do get an income off of something
576. 00:42:12 It's very easy for us to want to take that income and use it to upgrade the gear like that's that's the first reaction right
577. 00:42:19 when
578. 00:42:21 Actually the better answer is take that money and figure out how it would help your audience better whether that's
579. 00:42:27 Offering a new service or making it easier to consume the the thing like I don't know what that all would be
580. 00:42:34 But if you can focus on that as opposed to
581. 00:42:38 I want a better microphone or I really want that roadcaster pro like whatever it is
582. 00:42:42 because that was my thing for a while and
583. 00:42:45 If you can do that like you're better off. That's that's what scott's getting at here
584. 00:42:50 Yeah, and from a organizational perspective
585. 00:42:53 There's even a difference an additional difference here in that
586. 00:42:57 Resources become depleted but resourcefulness does not
587. 00:43:02 And he actually says in this chapter that nothing disrupts resourcefulness
588. 00:43:08 more than a sudden influx of resources
589. 00:43:10 Which that statement kind of caught me off guard so you can take somebody who is resourceful
590. 00:43:16 You can give them a whole bunch of stuff and then actually they lose the thing
591. 00:43:23 That made them
592. 00:43:25 Successful in the first place right
593. 00:43:28 Which is kind of wild when you think about it that way
594. 00:43:31 It maybe doesn't transmit
595. 00:43:34 Totally to the example you were talking about because the fact that you have the roadcaster pro does not mean that you are less likely to podcast
596. 00:43:42 Now it's it's not something that you're going to use up
597. 00:43:45 Over time
598. 00:43:47 But I feel like this couples very nicely with the next chapter
599. 00:43:49 Which isn't in the outline but I just want to touch on a briefly initiative over experience
600. 00:43:53 Because people with initiative will often exceed your expectations and I would say that the people who are resourceful are the people who have initiative
601. 00:44:02 And he says initiative is contagious expertise is is not
602. 00:44:06 So if you're thinking about experience
603. 00:44:09 Which is how a lot of people will hire for a job as you got to have so much experience or you have to have this title or whatever
604. 00:44:17 All that means if they've got the degree or they've got the certification
605. 00:44:23 Is that at one point in their life? They had a bunch of resources
606. 00:44:28 Right
607. 00:44:31 It really is not a good indication of
608. 00:44:35 whether they are
609. 00:44:38 this
610. 00:44:39 Scrappy emotionally intelligent can figure it out on their own type of person which scott is arguing in this section is
611. 00:44:46 So valuable for your team because this whole section here is on
612. 00:44:50 Building hiring and and firing and really about how Jim Collins would say getting the right people on the bus
613. 00:44:57 Right. These are the people who can help you build your organization
614. 00:45:02 Because you don't really know what this thing is going to be when you start building this thing. You just got a
615. 00:45:07 Assemble these awesome people and when you get enough awesome people together
616. 00:45:14 Something magical happens and the idea that you had gets shifted a little bit and what comes out on the other end ends up being
617. 00:45:22 Much more valuable much more precious than anything you could have done on your own
618. 00:45:27 Yeah, I think I get what you're saying it makes it makes a lot of sense, but yes, you also have to be
619. 00:45:32 Like so much of it has to be a mindset, right? Which I think is what you're getting at. Yes choosing to be willing to
620. 00:45:41 Work through work through things without just relying on money, right?
621. 00:45:47 Yeah, the money it all gets easy
622. 00:45:50 Yeah, a lot of this is mindset stuff, I guess but emotional intelligence. I see as part of this as well
623. 00:45:57 It's the type of thing where if you're trying to build a team that is going to
624. 00:46:02 Statistically make your organization or business better in the long run
625. 00:46:06 The things that you would traditionally look for are not the things that are really going to move the needle
626. 00:46:12 It's hard to measure resourcefulness. It's easy to measure resources
627. 00:46:18 right
628. 00:46:20 Yeah for sure, which kind of leads into the next
629. 00:46:22 chapter. I want to talk about
630. 00:46:25 accommodate free radicals because I feel like I am a free radical
631. 00:46:30 I feel like you're a free radical
632. 00:46:33 Free radicals it talks about in this chapter they are
633. 00:46:38 Basically people who work different
634. 00:46:41 They are unbound energy sources who work on their teams. They're often misunderstood in the workplace
635. 00:46:48 Because they're not going to conform to this is just the way that everybody does things and I'm fortunate
636. 00:46:54 I'm in a position
637. 00:46:56 and you're fortunate that you're in a position
638. 00:46:58 where
639. 00:47:00 They're cool with us being free radicals and recording bookworm today, right? Because they recognize that
640. 00:47:06 This actually brings value in other ways to the
641. 00:47:09 The organization not having the freedom to to do this on our our own terms
642. 00:47:14 I guess, you know, if you were to simplify this it's really just focus on the
643. 00:47:19 the outcome and the production rather than
644. 00:47:23 the seat time and the hours in punching the clock that sort of thing which a lot of
645. 00:47:29 Let's just say more traditional
646. 00:47:32 companies. That's their measure of success is
647. 00:47:36 Did they make a hundred calls today?
648. 00:47:39 And I've been a salesperson so I understand
649. 00:47:43 Yes, you need to make the calls
650. 00:47:45 And if you're procrastinating on making the calls then that's an appropriate measure is just make x number of calls today
651. 00:47:53 But ultimately what matters is not the number of calls that you make it's the appointments that you set or the sales that you get
652. 00:47:59 Right and there's other ways that you can
653. 00:48:02 Do that stuff and what you really want is somebody who is willing to figure that out and navigate that and they understand okay
654. 00:48:09 What the organization really wants is the sale itself. So
655. 00:48:13 If I can get if I can move this number
656. 00:48:17 Then I have flexibility in this number or how I actually do that
657. 00:48:24 Yes, so free radicals, okay, I feel like when when you and I are
658. 00:48:29 Able to do this sort of thing like we're definitely
659. 00:48:32 breaking a lot of conventions I would say when it comes to like how
660. 00:48:38 schedules and stuff work so
661. 00:48:41 I could easily see how
662. 00:48:44 We we definitely break a lot of those conventions
663. 00:48:47 but at the same time like if you're able to
664. 00:48:51 as an organization accommodate people like
665. 00:48:53 us who break rules
666. 00:48:56 Generally you're better off overall so like that I can kind of see but
667. 00:49:02 as someone who
668. 00:49:04 Often works with other people who are in the same boat like it's
669. 00:49:08 Sometimes challenging
670. 00:49:11 Do I have to let you do these things please just follow the pattern
671. 00:49:16 So I get where it's it's both a positive and a difficult thing on both sides. So I get that
672. 00:49:22 I understand it, but I also
673. 00:49:26 the more I I read about this the more I study it myself
674. 00:49:32 I feel more strongly
675. 00:49:36 That it doesn't really matter big picture if you've got the right people
676. 00:49:43 Then they will figure out how to do the right things
677. 00:49:47 in fact the next
678. 00:49:49 chapter that I wanted to talk about here
679. 00:49:51 Is that process is the excretion of misalignment
680. 00:49:56 And this is not the first place
681. 00:49:59 that he talks about process and how process is
682. 00:50:05 kind of a mask of
683. 00:50:08 deeper problems this one specifically he's talking about misalignment. Okay, so
684. 00:50:13 If you are aligned
685. 00:50:17 You don't need a bunch of processes telling people exactly
686. 00:50:21 what to do
687. 00:50:24 The goal is to be fully aligned with as little process
688. 00:50:28 as possible and so you're giving people the freedom
689. 00:50:32 to
690. 00:50:33 Do it the way that they see fit trusting that
691. 00:50:38 They can do their job better than you can from a distance if you were to micromanage them
692. 00:50:42 And so they're going to get the they're going to get better results
693. 00:50:45 In the previous section, I don't remember exactly where but he talked about process
694. 00:50:51 being the thing that
695. 00:50:54 will help
696. 00:50:55 mitigate the weaknesses of B players
697. 00:50:59 but it also
698. 00:51:01 completely handicaps
699. 00:51:03 your A players
700. 00:51:05 If you've got a strong team
701. 00:51:07 really
702. 00:51:09 Just awesome individuals who are motivated who know what they're supposed to do and you give them a bunch of process
703. 00:51:15 You're going to significantly slow them down
704. 00:51:19 But if you have a bunch of people who you're not really sure
705. 00:51:22 If they have what it takes
706. 00:51:25 Then you can mask a lot of those weaknesses through complicated processes
707. 00:51:32 And I've been thinking a lot about this and work the system and document everything
708. 00:51:36 right
709. 00:51:39 And uh, I don't know exactly where I land on this
710. 00:51:43 Yet, I feel like there's some essential processes which you need in order to delegate things and
711. 00:51:50 Make sure everybody's doing certain things the same way
712. 00:51:54 But really the thing that is more important is getting everyone aligned on this is the lever we want to want to pull
713. 00:52:00 This is the the measure we want to influence
714. 00:52:02 what it
715. 00:52:05 What do you think on this whole topic of like
716. 00:52:07 process versus systems and
717. 00:52:10 alignment
718. 00:52:11 Yeah, I think that there's
719. 00:52:13 There's easily a point at which all of these
720. 00:52:17 processes in general get to be
721. 00:52:20 bloated in a problem
722. 00:52:22 and
723. 00:52:24 It also gets to be
724. 00:52:26 super common
725. 00:52:28 I guess
726. 00:52:29 So that there's so many times I've had in the past where I'm in a corporation
727. 00:52:34 I'm in a company of some kind and and they want to put together
728. 00:52:38 Multiple steps for something to happen so that you have something that's repeatable. I get that
729. 00:52:43 but there's so many points in the process where
730. 00:52:47 the
731. 00:52:50 System or the protocol that they put in place
732. 00:52:53 Almost hamstrings the entire intent
733. 00:52:57 Exactly. So because of the process that is in place
734. 00:53:02 It means that I'm not able to
735. 00:53:05 Do something innovative or actually helpful. Here's here's an example. This one was very painful
736. 00:53:13 Uh, when I worked corporate
737. 00:53:16 One of the things that we had to do was collect a seed order
738. 00:53:20 This was in agriculture
739. 00:53:21 So we had to collect corn and soybean seed orders from our sales representatives who were out in the field
740. 00:53:27 Taking those orders from farmers, right? So all of that data needed to be collected into one place
741. 00:53:32 Because of the process because of the system
742. 00:53:37 In order for them to collect one order from one farmer for one field
743. 00:53:43 In the entire united states
744. 00:53:46 It had to get entered in three different places and it had to match and all three places
745. 00:53:51 and it had to use all of the fancy
746. 00:53:55 I don't even I can't even think of what they were. It's it's the process where it's ownership by the person when it leaves the truck versus when it goes
747. 00:54:02 Onto the truck. I forget what those terms are anymore
748. 00:54:05 But it it was all of that stuff and the sales reps were the ones that had to enter these things three different places
749. 00:54:11 In a couple cases the terms were backwards
750. 00:54:14 So they had to use it one way in process one and a different way in process two and a different way again in process three
751. 00:54:22 So you had to do all of those things in different methods
752. 00:54:25 My job as data analyst person
753. 00:54:28 Was to help collect some of that information and one of the things that I did
754. 00:54:32 Was attempt to create a fourth system which because they wouldn't let us alter those three
755. 00:54:39 I went through a process of trying to build a
756. 00:54:43 web interface that allowed them to enter it in one spot
757. 00:54:46 That would then automatically take that information and decode it and put it into the other three
758. 00:54:54 Because the process was so convoluted in a mess
759. 00:54:57 I spent like three months building that thing so that these guys didn't have to deal with
760. 00:55:03 Those three other systems and it worked great
761. 00:55:07 But we slid it underneath all of the protocol because it was absolutely against
762. 00:55:13 What the corporation wanted us to do we had zero approvals to do it
763. 00:55:17 So because of that
764. 00:55:21 After the fact they shut it all down because we weren't allowed to do that again and the sales reps through a fit
765. 00:55:27 They loved
766. 00:55:29 Thing but it was all because of their protocol had they not put that protocol in place
767. 00:55:34 They wouldn't have had that big of a backlash whenever they shut down the easy thing to use
768. 00:55:40 So I I understand why some systems and some protocols are in place. I get it
769. 00:55:46 But if you've got them in place and it creates a lot of extra work and it makes things more difficult to do
770. 00:55:53 At all like you've gone way too far with it. Please stop
771. 00:55:57 Yeah, I'm fortunate that in the position i'm in with the
772. 00:56:02 The day job there are a lot of complicated processes
773. 00:56:06 and i'm the new guy and i'm just like why are we doing it this way
774. 00:56:10 and
775. 00:56:13 Everyone seems to be on board with letting me try to figure out new things
776. 00:56:17 But it does require blowing a lot of stuff up which
777. 00:56:21 Makes people nervous and I understand that like going back to the Colby stuff
778. 00:56:27 I am a high fact finder a low quick start. So if I was on the other end of that I would be freaking out. I I get it
779. 00:56:36 but I also
780. 00:56:39 See the importance of
781. 00:56:41 The alignment and how that makes everything so much easier reminds me of something that I read at one point
782. 00:56:47 I remember where it was
783. 00:56:48 About the two horse rule
784. 00:56:50 You're probably familiar with this kind of makes the productivity circles
785. 00:56:53 But if you've got two horses and one can pull 300 pounds and another can pull 150 pounds
786. 00:56:59 That's the example that I had heard
787. 00:57:01 together
788. 00:57:03 They can pull not 450 pounds, but there's a force multiplier that's applied
789. 00:57:09 So it's more like 900 pounds when they're pulling in the same direction
790. 00:57:12 If they are not pulling in the same direction
791. 00:57:16 Then it actually gets harder, which is why
792. 00:57:20 Process at least you know keeps that from happening
793. 00:57:24 But the best thing that you can do is if you've got smart people say this is where we're going and then
794. 00:57:30 you can activate that that force multiplier
795. 00:57:34 and
796. 00:57:36 I think as I reflect on work the system now I have to go back and reread it
797. 00:57:40 But I'm thinking through all my big takeaways from that
798. 00:57:44 And my question would be if I need to make all that documentation
799. 00:57:49 Do I have the right people on this team?
800. 00:57:52 Yeah, yeah
801. 00:57:54 because
802. 00:57:55 That to me is not
803. 00:57:57 Just part of the process, but you've got to ask yourself why why is this documentation
804. 00:58:05 necessary
805. 00:58:06 Is it because
806. 00:58:08 people
807. 00:58:09 Don't understand if they don't understand why don't they understand is it because they disagree?
808. 00:58:15 No one has convinced them that this is the right thing to do
809. 00:58:19 Are they incapable of understanding? Are they like actively rebelling against the
810. 00:58:25 Division of of leadership
811. 00:58:28 Like there are other issues to be impacted rather than just get the individual to do the thing
812. 00:58:35 right right
813. 00:58:37 I know there's there's many many times when
814. 00:58:39 My my underling as I refer to him. He knows I call him this
815. 00:58:43 he's
816. 00:58:46 so my assistant he he handles a lot of like the sunday morning repetitive stuff
817. 00:58:50 And there's a checklist that he goes through
818. 00:58:53 Every sunday that helps him make sure everything gets done
819. 00:58:57 And I feel like when we talk about systems and protocols something like that is very helpful because like that's not a
820. 00:59:04 system or a process in place to make sure that everybody complies that is so that it's not forgotten
821. 00:59:12 And I know that we have a handful of
822. 00:59:15 like procedures and protocols here at the church that we follow
823. 00:59:19 but
824. 00:59:20 The ones that are documented not all of them are the ones that are documented
825. 00:59:24 We've been trying to make sure we put a why section in there's like why does this exist
826. 00:59:30 And that helps significantly because when we hand it over to somebody
827. 00:59:33 Like somebody who's new an organization. It's new to the building. They're not familiar with how we
828. 00:59:39 Do things here like who does the setup? Who does the cleanup if you need tech help? What do you do like all of those questions like there's a whole
829. 00:59:46 standard operating procedure for all of that
830. 00:59:50 and each of those sections has a why underneath of it so that people who are brand new to us know where all that stuff came from
831. 00:59:57 and
832. 00:59:58 That has actually been more helpful than just telling people what it is. There's
833. 01:00:02 Supposed to do follow suit like it doesn't become that it becomes a here's why you need to operate underneath these
834. 01:00:10 Methods otherwise bad things happen and we don't want you to have those bad things happen
835. 01:00:16 So that I find helpful
836. 01:00:18 But if you didn't have that why section in there think about how that comes across if somebody hands you a document that explains
837. 01:00:25 The way that you're supposed to operate with an organization. It doesn't have the why on it
838. 01:00:30 It just seems ludicrous and ridiculous like think of the
839. 01:00:33 The classic iminims and the candy bowl. I don't want any of the brown ones in there like that whole thing
840. 01:00:39 Why why on earth would you ever
841. 01:00:42 Like people are immediately second guessing it and now they don't think any of the rest of it is worthwhile because you've got this ridiculous request and
842. 01:00:50 All these things like I when we have people outside guests come in and they always give us their tech needs
843. 01:00:57 Every once in a while they'll have a writer that comes with it that says like they need
844. 01:01:02 This many water bottles or they want a table of this size and like they'll have all these things that they want
845. 01:01:08 We have had
846. 01:01:10 One person who came in who had the iminim thing
847. 01:01:13 On it and it had something about they didn't want more than I think a hundred iminims in a bowl or something like that
848. 01:01:20 It was it was about iminims legitimately and I know that someone here saw that and they're like what
849. 01:01:27 Can we cancel them like I we're not dealing with this
850. 01:01:31 So but there was no why involved with it because we they didn't explain the purpose of
851. 01:01:37 All of that now people who have been around it know
852. 01:01:40 That story and why it's there but if you're not familiar with it, it just seems ridiculous
853. 01:01:46 I'm rambling at this point, but you get you get my point anything
854. 01:01:49 I think that that is actually an exercising getting alignment
855. 01:01:53 From an outside source though
856. 01:01:56 I mean they don't have the time to build the relationships and to establish trust
857. 01:02:01 They just need to know
858. 01:02:02 These things that are essential for me to do this thing are going to get taken care of
859. 01:02:06 So I actually think that's
860. 01:02:09 That's totally fine
861. 01:02:12 And I think the one that you're talking about the checklist that's also totally fine
862. 01:02:17 Now imagine if that checklist
863. 01:02:19 Had all of the detailed instructions on how to do each thing and was an entire manual that you had to crank through every single time
864. 01:02:26 Right, that's going to be cumbersome and I understand why you want all those processes documented and why you've got the why there
865. 01:02:34 But why do you do that in the first place?
866. 01:02:38 I think it's because
867. 01:02:41 You're trying to get somebody new on board like you were talking about
868. 01:02:46 Getting them up to speed in order to do this thing so you no longer have to do it as quickly as possible
869. 01:02:52 And I think that is
870. 01:02:53 perfectly legitimate
871. 01:02:55 As I was reading this section though, I kind of was thinking
872. 01:02:59 more about
873. 01:03:01 the
874. 01:03:03 The team itself though kind of like the talent that we have
875. 01:03:07 assembled here
876. 01:03:10 Do we have
877. 01:03:11 the right people
878. 01:03:13 And that's where the process I feel can work
879. 01:03:17 Against you because if you have very regimented process and you insist on everybody following it
880. 01:03:24 That's fine at the beginning when you're getting up to speed
881. 01:03:26 But if all they do is follow that detailed process to the letter every single time
882. 01:03:32 You're just delaying
883. 01:03:35 Finding out whether you've got the right people there
884. 01:03:40 At some point as scary as it seems you need to ask them to think for themselves
885. 01:03:45 And maybe that is uh
886. 01:03:48 Maybe that's a radical thought in the business world. I don't know but seems kind of obvious to me
887. 01:03:54 Yeah, yeah at the same time though
888. 01:03:58 You know, I can think of teams that I've
889. 01:04:01 been on where
890. 01:04:04 When it comes to writing and
891. 01:04:06 Such like I'm not incompetent like I know how that process works
892. 01:04:10 I've done it for years like it's not a new thing publishing blog post like I know what I'm up to
893. 01:04:15 With that and I've been a part of teams where
894. 01:04:19 That's my job
895. 01:04:21 Is to do some of that writing and yet
896. 01:04:23 There's
897. 01:04:26 Difficulty for me to know what it is that's needed
898. 01:04:28 Like in in the specific scenarios, you know what I mean like it
899. 01:04:33 I know my side of it, but how do I work with you with that?
900. 01:04:37 And that interface between me and the other person
901. 01:04:40 Has almost no
902. 01:04:42 Process to it and
903. 01:04:44 Without the explanation or without the communication
904. 01:04:47 It can become a detriment in itself and and part of it is because
905. 01:04:51 They trust me so much in that that I can do a good job that
906. 01:04:57 There isn't a process in place when I would really like to know
907. 01:05:02 When do you need this in respect to a published date and what is it you need?
908. 01:05:06 Like how much detail what format where
909. 01:05:10 All of those things how do I get it into that thing like all of these things are
910. 01:05:14 Potentially helpful in that scenario and yet it's not always
911. 01:05:19 Communicated so you can go the other way with it too
912. 01:05:22 I think like you can trust them so much that you don't help them do their job as well
913. 01:05:28 Yeah, I think I think I agree with that
914. 01:05:30 I think the middle ground here would be kind of the next point on the outline
915. 01:05:33 Which was something you want to talk about that simple is sticky
916. 01:05:37 Right. Yeah, if you're trying to delegate a process so you no longer have to do it anymore
917. 01:05:44 Telling them every bit of information
918. 01:05:47 That there is to know that's going to happen on this sunday morning
919. 01:05:53 Is going to quickly overwhelm them and make it much much
920. 01:05:57 Harder for them to get to the point where they can do it on their own
921. 01:06:00 Right. Right. Yeah, I I wanted this part in the outline here because and this isn't a chapter heading
922. 01:06:07 I think this is the only one on our list here. That's not
923. 01:06:09 It's a quote that's inside of one of the explanations of a chapter
924. 01:06:15 but
925. 01:06:16 Simple is sticky like that quote stood out to me because
926. 01:06:19 There's there's a lot of things where
927. 01:06:22 You may have a process a system a
928. 01:06:26 Way of working with someone else
929. 01:06:28 That is somewhat complicated and the moment that you
930. 01:06:32 Work towards simplifying it
931. 01:06:35 And consolidating condensing
932. 01:06:38 Bringing it down to something much more manageable
933. 01:06:41 Like that tends to stick and it tends to not change very often
934. 01:06:46 So the simpler it is simpler. It is
935. 01:06:49 more likely it is to
936. 01:06:52 Hang around so
937. 01:06:54 I find that fascinating and it's partially because of my own
938. 01:06:57 Drive towards like simple productivity systems like that's becoming a thing that i'm trying to work towards
939. 01:07:03 uh, thus like dropping tasks in the middle of my project notes and being able to pull them out of it just because
940. 01:07:10 It's simple like that sort of thing is
941. 01:07:13 More what i'm
942. 01:07:16 It does work well
943. 01:07:18 So like that is something i'm pushing more for right is the simplicity side of it
944. 01:07:24 and i think that there's there's a lot to be said for it and yet
945. 01:07:27 a lot of
946. 01:07:30 If we stick with productivity systems at least the ones that i've done in the past or that i've learned from in the past
947. 01:07:36 Are fairly complicated they may appear simple on the surface but on the back side they are complicated
948. 01:07:43 and
949. 01:07:44 That's not
950. 01:07:46 Helpful like on the face of things it has to be simple and behind the scenes it has to be simple
951. 01:07:51 Communicating meeting notes should not be a complicated process
952. 01:07:54 Figuring out how many people you had in an event should not be complicated like don't over complicate these things
953. 01:08:00 Make them simple and the simpler you make it the the more it's going to
954. 01:08:04 Stick around thus simple as sticky yeah
955. 01:08:07 For reference go back and listen to the great mental models volume one where we talk about ockham's eraser
956. 01:08:14 Yep
957. 01:08:15 Yup
958. 01:08:16 The simple solution kind of best solution with my my fun little underling
959. 01:08:21 We'll keep using that term
960. 01:08:22 I've referred to ockham's razor with him many many times because
961. 01:08:26 uh
962. 01:08:27 I love him, but he he jumps to the most complicated convoluted solution to anything that's wrong like
963. 01:08:33 This video isn't showing up on that screen
964. 01:08:36 I'm sure the memory is overloaded in the the fans are cranked up and it just can't get the video out of the port like
965. 01:08:42 Or the tv's off
966. 01:08:46 like
967. 01:08:48 It could be something that simple and we go up and hit the power button and guess what it comes on
968. 01:08:52 Oh, okay, like I love him, but well I
969. 01:08:56 To defend the underling here
970. 01:08:58 I feel like for someone who
971. 01:09:03 I take takes an analytical approach to solving problems
972. 01:09:07 That is a learned skill
973. 01:09:10 It is to try the obvious things
974. 01:09:13 Because when you're trying to figure out
975. 01:09:17 All the different reasons why this this could be
976. 01:09:19 and
977. 01:09:21 You tend to think well, of course people tried this before they brought it to my attention. No, they probably didn't
978. 01:09:27 Correct. Yep. The classic like have you tried restarting it everyone will tell you yes
979. 01:09:35 Mm-hmm, but I can run a quick command and terminal and find out what the uptime is
980. 01:09:41 On that computer and I know
981. 01:09:45 When it was last shut down or restarted I can figure this out and when someone tells me it's been restarted
982. 01:09:51 Guess what my first thing is I do I open a command prompt
983. 01:09:54 And find out and if the answer is no, they didn't I will do it again
984. 01:09:59 So
985. 01:10:02 Yes, yeah
986. 01:10:04 Simple
987. 01:10:06 I like one one more in this optimized section which you picked but I also was going to pick make a plan
988. 01:10:12 But don't plan on sticking to it
989. 01:10:14 They mentioned my favorite Dwight Eisenhower quote in this section plans are worthless, but planning is everything
990. 01:10:20 Yep
991. 01:10:22 This was the one chapter in the entire thing actually where I felt like he didn't do a great job of
992. 01:10:27 defining like obviously he starts on the
993. 01:10:30 strong foundation with that that quote, but
994. 01:10:33 Maybe it's just because I have kind of studied
995. 01:10:37 This and have my own synthesize my own thoughts on this
996. 01:10:41 But yeah, like I felt like I could have written this maybe a little bit more effectively
997. 01:10:45 Just this one section that's it that's it
998. 01:10:49 This is where it could have been a long chapter and it's one that you really really like so you wanted him to make it a longer chapter
999. 01:10:55 That's completely fair. Yep completely fair
1000. 01:10:59 Oh my we do this all the time
1001. 01:11:04 We do
1002. 01:11:06 Just for summary for those who are new to that idea the
1003. 01:11:09 basic
1004. 01:11:11 argument is that you can plan out your day and
1005. 01:11:15 A lot of people will do that
1006. 01:11:18 Try it and then when it doesn't go the way that they planned it
1007. 01:11:21 They stop doing it because they're like, oh, what's the point?
1008. 01:11:24 But the point is the clarity and the intention that comes from creating the plan
1009. 01:11:29 It's not having the plan itself. It's the act of creating it that provides the value
1010. 01:11:34 And there's a whole bunch of additional things I would add especially for an individual
1011. 01:11:40 Around creating a plan, but he did talk about some of the big stuff like building in the margin
1012. 01:11:45 So when something goes over or something finishes a little bit early, you know, you can kind of shift the plan and accommodate things
1013. 01:11:52 But yeah, it's different when you're talking about doing this in a startup than you are
1014. 01:11:59 in a
1015. 01:12:01 typical knowledge worker planning their day
1016. 01:12:04 Yeah, because I know that I have long said that it's impossible for me to plan my day
1017. 01:12:09 I got I say that quite a bit because I never know
1018. 01:12:13 What's gonna come up? Like I know that I've got
1019. 01:12:15 A video editing project. I'm in the middle of right now that needs to get done
1020. 01:12:19 But I've had people interrupting me on it all week long
1021. 01:12:22 And probably gonna have to pull some long hours tomorrow to get it done like I know this
1022. 01:12:25 but
1023. 01:12:27 Yet I have to take some steps away from it like I'm doing here today because
1024. 01:12:33 I can't look at it that long
1025. 01:12:35 For like I can't look at it for 12 hours straight cannot do it
1026. 01:12:39 So I have to get some breaks from it. It's what I was doing before we started here. It's what I'm going to do when we're done
1027. 01:12:43 so
1028. 01:12:44 That sort of thing is is something I have to do because of the
1029. 01:12:49 Focus needs and such but anyway planning the day like I know that I'm going to have a lot of distractions
1030. 01:12:56 Throughout the day and I have long said like I can't
1031. 01:13:00 Can't nail down when I'm going to do what but yet
1032. 01:13:03 I have even as I've said that I've usually had a this morning
1033. 01:13:09 Even if it's just mentally this morning. I need to get this done this afternoon
1034. 01:13:12 I need to do that and somewhere between here and lunchtime. I need to get these three things accomplished like
1035. 01:13:18 I haven't formally written out like an hour by hour thing, but I kind of know
1036. 01:13:23 When certain things need to happen that day. So because of that
1037. 01:13:28 I kind of have a rough plan
1038. 01:13:31 for what I'm going to accomplish that day, but
1039. 01:13:34 I also know that like
1040. 01:13:37 It's not going to happen the way I visualize it. Maybe that's why I don't want to write it all down because I don't think it's worth it
1041. 01:13:43 Yep. Yep. Yep. Exactly. So we're creating an action item for joe here
1042. 01:13:47 Sure write it down then it's just yeah, so we could potentially do that. I'll take that. That's fine
1043. 01:13:57 I'm writing it down. I'm legit writing it down right now
1044. 01:13:59 That's the argument and I think there is diminishing returns
1045. 01:14:03 for
1046. 01:14:05 For doing this at some point, you know if you're brand new and you're to your
1047. 01:14:09 Role and you it feels like everything is just coming at you
1048. 01:14:14 This actually brings a whole ton of clarity if you're established and
1049. 01:14:16 You kind of in the back of your head know how the legos fit together then don't worry about it
1050. 01:14:23 But uh if you've not done it before I think this is absolutely an exercise that everybody should do
1051. 01:14:28 Which is why I push you to make it an action. Yeah. Yeah
1052. 01:14:32 Thanks mike you're good at that anymore. Yeah, that's why i'm here
1053. 01:14:37 All right, should we talk about the final mile?
1054. 01:14:41 Sure get me off of this
1055. 01:14:44 Whole like giving me tasks thing
1056. 01:14:46 All right, so the final mile. This is the shorter section in the book, but there's a couple of things worth unpacking here
1057. 01:14:53 The big one you picked out and that is that you are not your work
1058. 01:14:59 Let's talk about that one first
1059. 01:15:02 because this is
1060. 01:15:04 something that is
1061. 01:15:06 hard for a lot of people to separate
1062. 01:15:09 I never even made the connection about like founders of these startup companies
1063. 01:15:15 when they
1064. 01:15:17 Make the sale which is the whole thing they're working for
1065. 01:15:20 kind of the depression that sets in and the identity crisis that they go through
1066. 01:15:24 but I have definitely
1067. 01:15:27 Rousled through this myself as a creative. So definitely not on the same
1068. 01:15:33 Level he shared some stories in here about he's grandpa who sold the company and kind of went into depression afterwards
1069. 01:15:41 and uh, I there's a whole bunch of tangential
1070. 01:15:46 Topics there about finding something new to do after that and things like that
1071. 01:15:50 But I think the thing we should focus on here is that your identity is not
1072. 01:15:54 solely in your production
1073. 01:15:57 Your value is not tied to what you
1074. 01:16:01 produce
1075. 01:16:03 And I feel like we've talked about this a lot and I kind of sound like a broken record at this point
1076. 01:16:08 But I also feel it is extremely important to hammer this home
1077. 01:16:14 as often as we can
1078. 01:16:16 You are not what you do
1079. 01:16:20 And it's so hard though and this is why I wanted to talk about it again because
1080. 01:16:26 It's difficult to do this separation
1081. 01:16:30 It just is and I feel like I would keep wanting to bring it up and keep talking about it partially for my own benefit
1082. 01:16:38 And partially because I know that just about everybody I talk to struggles with this
1083. 01:16:44 It doesn't seem to matter what your
1084. 01:16:46 Industry is I know that I've talked to farmers that struggle with this one
1085. 01:16:51 Like you can do everything right and it still fails like it it can happen
1086. 01:16:56 So
1087. 01:16:57 This is this is something that I know and when that happens people can go into depressions in really bad places because
1088. 01:17:03 The thing that they were working on failed and they feel like that's a reflection on themselves
1089. 01:17:08 but this this actually
1090. 01:17:11 One of the things that uh
1091. 01:17:13 It comes back to my mind whenever I I process this is the the book thinking in bets by any duke
1092. 01:17:19 And the the concept of you can have all of the information in front of you and you can make
1093. 01:17:24 A solid decision. It doesn't turn out the way you think it will
1094. 01:17:28 And it could be a bad result. That doesn't mean you made a bad decision
1095. 01:17:31 That just means that things didn't go the way you thought they would
1096. 01:17:36 But given the information you had at the time it was the right decision
1097. 01:17:41 And if you could look back on it, yeah, you'd probably change it, but if you didn't have the
1098. 01:17:45 2020 vision or the hindsight side of it
1099. 01:17:48 Then you would have made the exact same decision ahead of time like beforehand. So
1100. 01:17:54 Because of all that concept like you have to be aware that
1101. 01:17:58 Whenever you're making something whenever you're doing work
1102. 01:18:03 and you're creating things whether it's
1103. 01:18:06 putting in a water heater
1104. 01:18:09 or
1105. 01:18:10 Making a video for youtube and anything in between
1106. 01:18:12 It doesn't seem to matter the things that you're producing are not you
1107. 01:18:18 and
1108. 01:18:20 Just because the quality of that thing is something that some random person doesn't appreciate
1109. 01:18:25 It either means that's the wrong audience for the thing
1110. 01:18:30 For the video for the work that you're doing
1111. 01:18:33 Or you're just in the learning process and you need to get better at it
1112. 01:18:38 And your skills aren't there yet
1113. 01:18:40 Whenever I listen to
1114. 01:18:42 Some of the early podcasts that I've ever recorded or watched some of the videos I first made
1115. 01:18:46 I cringe
1116. 01:18:49 This is why creators don't like to go back in the archives
1117. 01:18:52 To look at things right like when's the last time you went and looked at your first pod or listen to your first podcast
1118. 01:18:58 Not gonna happen recently. Nope. No, don't do it. It's scary. You don't want to do it
1119. 01:19:03 Because you grow and you get a lot better over time
1120. 01:19:07 So you you don't want to make that your identity
1121. 01:19:10 The thing that you're doing you have to somehow separate those two thus
1122. 01:19:15 I feel like we need to keep bringing it up
1123. 01:19:17 Because it's something it's really hard to do
1124. 01:19:18 Well, the other thing I want to talk about is related to this on the inverse
1125. 01:19:22 so
1126. 01:19:23 Overcome your resistance to a great outcome is another chapter here
1127. 01:19:27 Which is kind of tied to you are not your work
1128. 01:19:31 Because in that section he tells a story about this
1129. 01:19:33 person who had been with this company
1130. 01:19:36 Behance as they were getting ready to be acquired by adobe
1131. 01:19:39 And they kind of all knew that this was coming and this guy just kept doing dumb stuff
1132. 01:19:45 Saying stupid things and scots like this is really out of character for this guy
1133. 01:19:50 Why is he sabotaging himself? We're about to get this big payday and he's trying to get himself fired
1134. 01:19:56 Right and he tells his wife and his wife's like, oh, yeah, he doesn't
1135. 01:20:00 I forget exactly what she said, but she knew exactly what what it was and she's basically said
1136. 01:20:05 He doesn't feel like he deserves it
1137. 01:20:07 And so next time he did something scot cornered him in the conference room and he's like
1138. 01:20:11 You deserve this success and the guy's like what and he says it again. You deserve this success
1139. 01:20:18 And then the guy breaks down
1140. 01:20:20 No issues from that point forward right kind of good will hunting style, right? It's not your fault
1141. 01:20:27 Yes
1142. 01:20:29 Which seems like a ridiculous story, but I
1143. 01:20:32 I really like that one and I feel like this is something that I have wrestled with
1144. 01:20:39 Uh, not to that degree
1145. 01:20:42 But as long as you think you have to your your value is in what you do
1146. 01:20:48 If you get it better than expected a result there is the tendency to say I don't deserve this
1147. 01:20:57 And you can kind of self sabotage in a way
1148. 01:20:59 And you feel like you've got to put more effort in or you got to do more work
1149. 01:21:03 You got to make more sacrifice
1150. 01:21:05 This wasn't as hard for me as somebody else so you compare yourself and you say well, this must not be true
1151. 01:21:11 so you don't embrace the the good side of the scenario
1152. 01:21:15 and
1153. 01:21:17 I've been thinking about this a lot not as it pertains to this particular book
1154. 01:21:21 but for myself personally
1155. 01:21:22 the phrase that comes up is
1156. 01:21:25 Give yourself permission to dream again
1157. 01:21:28 like we get conditioned
1158. 01:21:31 over time to thinking like oh, it's not that easy
1159. 01:21:34 and
1160. 01:21:36 I'm not that good. I'm not that talented. I'm not that smart
1161. 01:21:39 whatever
1162. 01:21:42 and
1163. 01:21:43 You temper your expectations you temper your goals you temper your vision
1164. 01:21:49 based on
1165. 01:21:51 what you think you are capable of
1166. 01:21:54 And I do believe that we are all capable of more
1167. 01:21:57 than we realize
1168. 01:21:59 Kind of like we were talking about the very beginning. We don't really know what we're capable of until
1169. 01:22:04 being
1170. 01:22:06 asked or forced to rise to the occasion
1171. 01:22:08 And so I've noticed that myself just kind of being like well, you know
1172. 01:22:13 this is
1173. 01:22:15 Probably what this is going to look like and I I think it's I think it's unhealthy
1174. 01:22:19 to
1175. 01:22:22 Try to be too realistic when you're thinking about your future and
1176. 01:22:28 What you want to see happen. I think it's good
1177. 01:22:32 for you to
1178. 01:22:35 Assume the sky's the limit like what one of the questions I've been thinking about is what would it look like if you were
1179. 01:22:40 wildly successful
1180. 01:22:43 in
1181. 01:22:43 Whatever area however you want to apply that
1182. 01:22:46 I feel like that's a worthwhile
1183. 01:22:49 Exercise that can bring a lot of hope
1184. 01:22:51 Yes, absolutely because I feel like there's there's so much that can be done whenever you're willing to
1185. 01:22:57 Explore and be creative again
1186. 01:23:00 It's easy whenever you follow this so follow the path here, right? So you've got the the beginning idea
1187. 01:23:07 You've got a business you're starting you've got an online thing. You're going to start whatever it is
1188. 01:23:10 Uh, you're going to be a hvac guy. So
1189. 01:23:14 Whenever you first have that idea like it's the the initial high right
1190. 01:23:19 but whenever you come back off of that
1191. 01:23:20 the mundane can really get to be overwhelming and
1192. 01:23:24 And there is a point at which you're like grasping for air
1193. 01:23:28 And you're just trying to power through
1194. 01:23:32 But whether you're doing the pivots you're doing resets, you know, you're you're doing the optimized process on yourself your team the business
1195. 01:23:40 All of these things
1196. 01:23:42 It's real easy. There's there's a whole section in here. He talks about like disconnecting. It's real easy to
1197. 01:23:49 Just get stuck in the rut of
1198. 01:23:51 Always trying to optimize as well the things he's talking about are not bad
1199. 01:23:56 But you do need to take a step back from the the entire thing occasionally
1200. 01:24:01 In order to see the bigger picture like what you're saying like and and get kind of the bigger view of it
1201. 01:24:07 So that you can get the ideas and be more creative with the whole thing
1202. 01:24:11 But which is what got you in it to begin with, right?
1203. 01:24:15 So if you are willing to do that
1204. 01:24:18 That can help you keep the drive going and keep the upward tick marks up the upward stairs stepping of the graph
1205. 01:24:26 Yep, you can keep all of that moving forward, but you have to be willing to
1206. 01:24:30 Seek out outside information
1207. 01:24:34 Consume some things take the brakes disconnect like you got to give yourself the headspace in order to have that creativity come out again
1208. 01:24:41 Exactly. So it's like kind of what you were getting at
1209. 01:24:45 That's the way I saw it anyway. Yeah
1210. 01:24:47 One last thing I want to touch on here
1211. 01:24:49 Maybe you picked up on this and maybe not
1212. 01:24:53 Page three sixty seven. There is a quote from Warren Buffett about reading
1213. 01:24:57 Which we would be derelict in our bookworm duties if we did not touch on this
1214. 01:25:02 We always grab these and hold on to him, right? Yeah
1215. 01:25:05 So Warren Buffett said
1216. 01:25:08 Read 500 pages like this every day. That's how knowledge works. It builds up like compound interest
1217. 01:25:15 All of you can do it, but I guarantee
1218. 01:25:17 not many of you will do it
1219. 01:25:20 and
1220. 01:25:22 this
1221. 01:25:23 was
1222. 01:25:25 Challenging. I mean
1223. 01:25:26 We read a lot of books, right?
1224. 01:25:28 But I read this and all my action items is actually to read more
1225. 01:25:32 Yep
1226. 01:25:34 Because he's talking about
1227. 01:25:36 I'm gonna list here. It says read more. Yeah, it's basically centopical reading, right?
1228. 01:25:42 But on a larger scale
1229. 01:25:44 and when I heard Warren Buffett talk about this
1230. 01:25:48 I was like, yeah, I need more dots
1231. 01:25:52 I feel like I've been collecting them, you know, but
1232. 01:25:55 I could I could do more
1233. 01:25:57 Yeah, I wrote this one down as well and it's
1234. 01:25:59 Exactly the same read more books is what I wrote down and
1235. 01:26:04 I I don't know when or how that's going to happen
1236. 01:26:08 Given my life right now, but I want to at least make an effort towards it
1237. 01:26:12 So I don't I don't know what the answer is quite yet, but by next time I want to get that answered
1238. 01:26:17 Right
1239. 01:26:19 But I at the same time like I mean we read a lot, right and
1240. 01:26:22 When you read a 380 page book in two weeks
1241. 01:26:26 that's not small
1242. 01:26:28 in in what we're doing so
1243. 01:26:31 knowing that and knowing the the volume of reading that we do purely for the show
1244. 01:26:39 and knowing that we want to both take on more than that
1245. 01:26:43 My challenge to you dear listener is to do half of that
1246. 01:26:48 See if you can read it like I I would ch- maybe we should do it like a monthly or a quarterly challenge of sorts to have
1247. 01:26:55 Like a book club sort of thing where you got to read a book that we pick in a month
1248. 01:26:59 Like it's not reading in it in two weeks like we'll we'll let you know four weeks ahead of time
1249. 01:27:03 And you can read it in a month and we'll cover it together. I don't know what that is
1250. 01:27:07 I feel like we should do something like that. You need to read more
1251. 01:27:09 I need to read more
1252. 01:27:13 All right, have we done it? Have we worked through this giant tome of
1253. 01:27:17 the messy middle we we have picked out some high peaks to cover yes from this thing. Yes
1254. 01:27:25 All right, so
1255. 01:27:28 Do you have any action items?
1256. 01:27:30 Well, you gave it to me. So yes
1257. 01:27:32 You're at fault
1258. 01:27:34 All right
1259. 01:27:35 But you have to go first
1260. 01:27:36 Okay, fine
1261. 01:27:38 So I have two action items
1262. 01:27:40 One is to read more books as mentioned and then there's another
1263. 01:27:44 part from the final mile here
1264. 01:27:47 Where he says you're either part of the living or the dying and uh the action item that I wrote down here was get busy living
1265. 01:27:54 and uh, I feel like I kind of do this already, but I do want to
1266. 01:27:58 take an approach to my
1267. 01:28:02 Daily routine like my ideal week the things that I do on a regular basis and reconsider again
1268. 01:28:08 Why the stuff that I do is is on there
1269. 01:28:12 And maybe make some adjustments
1270. 01:28:15 Maybe just clarify that yeah, these are the right things and infuse a little bit more
1271. 01:28:19 Motivation into them. I kind of do this every quarter as part of my personal retreat stuff anyways, but
1272. 01:28:24 I
1273. 01:28:26 Want to put everything under the microscope again
1274. 01:28:29 There's a related thing to this which maybe we should cover this at some point 30 lessons for living
1275. 01:28:35 I've mentioned this as a gap book really really great book by a doctor who went and interviewed a lot of
1276. 01:28:41 People in nursing homes who you go to nursing home and there's a lot of people who don't want to be there
1277. 01:28:46 There's usually a few people who are just loving life living their best life
1278. 01:28:48 You know, they're really social just having a great time
1279. 01:28:52 And those are the people that he interviewed thousands of those types of people
1280. 01:28:56 and what are the things that got you to the point at this point in your life where you you can
1281. 01:29:01 look back with no regrets and
1282. 01:29:04 Able to enjoy
1283. 01:29:06 However much time you've you've got left and they broke it down into like 30 different themes 30 different lessons
1284. 01:29:11 How to live your best life basically from people who have done a good job of it
1285. 01:29:15 So that is kind of in the back of my mind as i'm thinking about that too, but
1286. 01:29:19 Yeah, I just want to
1287. 01:29:22 think about all the things that i'm doing now and
1288. 01:29:26 If there's anything that I just feel like i'm obligated to do and I don't really want to do or
1289. 01:29:30 Not that i'm
1290. 01:29:33 Don't enjoy doing but things that I recognize not everything is going to be fun
1291. 01:29:37 I recognize there's some stuff that's worth doing that's not going to be
1292. 01:29:40 Easy or enjoyable and that's not what i'm talking about with this
1293. 01:29:44 But the stuff that really just i'm doing it because someone expects me to do it
1294. 01:29:47 I really see no value in doing it for myself like looking for that type of stuff to stop doing
1295. 01:29:53 I feel like that's a tough one. I'm trying to think of like what that would be in my own life
1296. 01:29:57 Like what would that equate to and that's
1297. 01:29:59 Why do you make me think these things i have figured out mike now you got me like
1298. 01:30:05 I'm so sorry
1299. 01:30:08 Guess what i'm doing on my walk tonight
1300. 01:30:11 Okay
1301. 01:30:14 All right, so I have I have three two of which I had ahead of time one of which mike decided to add to my list
1302. 01:30:20 and
1303. 01:30:21 The the first one that I had wrote down was to
1304. 01:30:24 Because as I was going through this i've been processing a lot of like my own personal online business and how I do things
1305. 01:30:30 Thus a lot of the changes i've been in the middle of lately and
1306. 01:30:33 One of the things that i'm wanting to do and it kind of coincides with an off bookworm task that mike and i are working towards
1307. 01:30:41 Um, but I want to write out a formal plan for what i'm doing with my online business
1308. 01:30:48 Which incorporates like some of what i'm doing is like the story brand thing
1309. 01:30:52 For it as well as a like a piece of that. So
1310. 01:30:56 I feel like I need a little bit of accountability with all of that
1311. 01:31:00 Otherwise, I'll put it on the back burner and just go which is unhelpful in this case
1312. 01:31:03 So I want to put that on the table as something to to work through I had the one of reading more
1313. 01:31:09 because reading more
1314. 01:31:12 readers lead and leaders read so how that goes and
1315. 01:31:17 The more that I feel like I can consume from a a long form stance. I feel like the better
1316. 01:31:23 Synthesis I would have on topics just in general, but this is you know preaching to the choir here
1317. 01:31:29 So I don't have to explain that one too much and then we have the one that mike decided to give me
1318. 01:31:33 Uh, which is writing up my plan for the day. What what am I doing? Like what's the format of this? Does it matter?
1319. 01:31:39 Am I doing this hourly minutely? What am I doing? We didn't explain that part
1320. 01:31:45 I would say hourly hourly so yeah decide hours before they happen. Is that the the concept time black your day basically
1321. 01:31:53 Is this the 24 hour thing or is this my workday? What am I how deep? Do I have to go here?
1322. 01:31:58 Ah
1323. 01:32:00 I don't know. I wasn't gonna say just the work day, but maybe you should do uh
1324. 01:32:04 Curses I should have carried on. Maybe you should do every waking hour
1325. 01:32:09 Okay
1326. 01:32:11 Thanks mike
1327. 01:32:12 You're welcome. Hey, just so I have the record here. I got read more and writing out the plan for the day
1328. 01:32:18 What was the other one?
1329. 01:32:19 The writing out a plan for my online business. Okay. Gotcha. Yep
1330. 01:32:24 All right, so plan for the day all waking hours curses. Sorry. All right
1331. 01:32:31 Maybe you'll thank me after you do it
1332. 01:32:34 Hopefully
1333. 01:32:35 Uh, we'll see all right. I'll see I'm either gonna be really excited or rather upset with you
1334. 01:32:42 All right
1335. 01:32:44 We'll see how it goes. There you go. That's what I got
1336. 01:32:46 All right style and rating
1337. 01:32:49 I guess this is my book. So I have to go first. Yes
1338. 01:32:53 The style of this book is awesome. I love these small chapters the quick hit things
1339. 01:32:59 I've talked a lot about
1340. 01:33:02 The way that scott writes and the way that he communicates these ideas and I think it's very very effective
1341. 01:33:07 There are not a whole lot of pictures in this book
1342. 01:33:11 Uh, there's the one visual which he kind of builds on that as he gets through the different sections
1343. 01:33:16 So I feel like that's really powerful as a model
1344. 01:33:18 But there's not a whole lot else visually to this. I don't think that's necessarily a negative thing
1345. 01:33:24 I think going into it
1346. 01:33:28 There's a very
1347. 01:33:30 strong
1348. 01:33:31 Vibe of silicon valley startup sort of a thing which maybe we'll put some people off
1349. 01:33:37 But I feel like there is so much
1350. 01:33:41 gold in this book for
1351. 01:33:43 Anybody who listens to bookworm to be honest
1352. 01:33:47 So I would definitely recommend this to people
1353. 01:33:51 I would not buy it and give it to somebody and say here read this except for the person that I already did that for
1354. 01:33:57 Um
1355. 01:34:01 It's hard to rate this
1356. 01:34:03 on the heels of victor frankle
1357. 01:34:06 um one hand
1358. 01:34:10 This is talking about
1359. 01:34:12 Work specifically and so it feels like it should be a level below
1360. 01:34:18 what we just read in yes to life
1361. 01:34:22 And I do think that is
1362. 01:34:25 An accurate perspective to take when considering the the subject matter
1363. 01:34:30 Especially some of the stuff that he shares in here about you are not your job and things like that is kind of chill
1364. 01:34:34 you know
1365. 01:34:36 Work isn't everything which when you consider the audience
1366. 01:34:39 These are the people who struggle with this the most so very reassuring to
1367. 01:34:43 Hear him and say that there's a lot of really cool personal stories a lot of really cool insights a lot of really cool famous
1368. 01:34:51 People that he's met and like this is what they told me and I didn't even realize the value of what they told me until years later
1369. 01:34:57 When something else happened so I feel like there's a high level transparency that comes through in this book
1370. 01:35:04 It's somebody who has done something awesome and sold their startup to adobe for 150 million dollars
1371. 01:35:10 So they've lived the dream right they've worked all the way through this
1372. 01:35:14 And basically he's saying these are all the mistakes that i've made along the way
1373. 01:35:19 So it feels very approachable
1374. 01:35:22 I don't feel like you need to have a business background in order to get something out of this
1375. 01:35:27 There's something here even for the the creatives, which I would argue everybody is creative
1376. 01:35:30 um
1377. 01:35:32 So definitely would recommend it I'd recommend pretty much anybody in the bookroom audience take a look at it
1378. 01:35:37 See if see if you enjoy it
1379. 01:35:39 I I do think there's a possibility of this just is not the thing for you and feel free to put it down at that point
1380. 01:35:44 Don't force yourself to go through all 380 pages
1381. 01:35:47 Um, it was definitely the right thing for me at the right time. I really enjoyed going through this
1382. 01:35:52 I'm really glad that we read it. I feel like this is one of those
1383. 01:35:55 foundational books those tent pole books that i'm going to refer back to for many many years
1384. 01:36:02 And uh, i'm in a rated at 4.5 stars
1385. 01:36:05 Really really good really great information
1386. 01:36:08 Not completely life-changing at least as I sit here today
1387. 01:36:13 maybe several years from now
1388. 01:36:16 That
1389. 01:36:17 Will have changed but
1390. 01:36:19 I think uh, even if you just picked it up and read a couple of chapters that stood out to you
1391. 01:36:24 You would get something from it
1392. 01:36:27 Okay
1393. 01:36:28 I will agree that this is a uh a difficult one to
1394. 01:36:32 Rate after reading yes to life with victor frankle
1395. 01:36:36 Like it seems weird because those the victor frankle books tend to be the ones that we use as the gauge
1396. 01:36:42 like uh, almost the the the bar to to shoot for and
1397. 01:36:48 I know that that's not completely true. It does deviate from that
1398. 01:36:53 But it's something that does come up here on bookworm quite a bit. So because of that
1399. 01:37:00 I think you're you're spot on with the way that you're approaching this at least so
1400. 01:37:04 With this book, I will say like almost every chapter
1401. 01:37:09 Like we talked about how there's just tons and tons of chapters. They're like three to four pages long a piece
1402. 01:37:14 at a
1403. 01:37:17 370 page book
1404. 01:37:19 You can do the math on how many chapters there are in this thing
1405. 01:37:21 but
1406. 01:37:23 Because of that format it means that generally what happens is he introduces a topic
1407. 01:37:29 He'll tell you a story about it. Maybe some derivatives of that story
1408. 01:37:33 Possibly a second story and then explain it a little bit for each of those. It's
1409. 01:37:37 Roughly speaking what each of those is like it's it's not exact
1410. 01:37:42 uh, he doesn't follow that exactly through those but
1411. 01:37:45 I find that that
1412. 01:37:47 Process is one that is fairly common. It's fairly easy to grasp and easy to understand and i'm glad that he took that approach here
1413. 01:37:56 Because there are so many different little subtopics in here
1414. 01:38:00 The the one thing that's a little weird to me is that
1415. 01:38:04 The through line between all of them isn't always clear
1416. 01:38:08 Right. We haven't really talked about that in broad scope like with each individual chapter can stand alone
1417. 01:38:15 For the most part not not completely but pretty close and because of that
1418. 01:38:20 It's really easy. I find to pick it up and jump somewhere in the middle
1419. 01:38:25 Who was it Tim Ferris that was trying to do that like each chapter was designed to be a stand alone book almost
1420. 01:38:32 Was the way it was intended?
1421. 01:38:34 I don't remember if that was four hour work week four hour chef something like that one of his books
1422. 01:38:38 I think he had that that process he was trying to do
1423. 01:38:41 This isn't intended to be that way, but it almost does work that way
1424. 01:38:45 I kind of struggled to see the through path between each of those
1425. 01:38:49 But I also i'm not so sure that that's necessary
1426. 01:38:52 in this in the way that this is
1427. 01:38:55 supposed to be followed the way that he's got the
1428. 01:38:58 the
1429. 01:39:00 The three pieces here of endure optimized in the final mile because of those big overarching headers. I think it's fine
1430. 01:39:07 It just was a little
1431. 01:39:09 Weird to me that said like so much of this I feel like you're absolutely spot on this
1432. 01:39:14 This hit me at exactly the right time very grateful for having gone through this right now because of some of the stuff i'm trying to do
1433. 01:39:20 uh in simplifying a lot of my
1434. 01:39:23 off hours work that I do and
1435. 01:39:26 Because of that this this hits me perfect
1436. 01:39:29 Timing wise so I feel like there's not really been a better time for me to go through this
1437. 01:39:34 This is one i've known about for a long time just haven't
1438. 01:39:36 Had a reason or time to pick it up. So thanks mike. Thanks for doing that as for a rating
1439. 01:39:42 uh, i'll join you. I think 4.5 despite some of the
1440. 01:39:46 The question marks I have around it, but I think that's that's absolutely right. I think there's a lot of
1441. 01:39:51 super good value that you can get from this especially if you're somebody who's running a business or
1442. 01:39:56 Is considering it or you work for someplace that
1443. 01:40:01 You know pays you
1444. 01:40:03 And you do work for them my guess is you'll see a lot of things
1445. 01:40:07 In the business that are happening and that might inform your way of helping guide the business out of those
1446. 01:40:13 So I feel like it does have a pretty wide
1447. 01:40:15 Reach and yet
1448. 01:40:19 I would be very selective in who I specifically told you should read this
1449. 01:40:23 to to your point earlier like there's a lot here and
1450. 01:40:27 To the wrong person it could give the wrong idea. I think
1451. 01:40:31 Like if I give this to my boss you might wait hold up why
1452. 01:40:36 Do you think we're in all sorts of problems?
1453. 01:40:39 You don't think we're past all of this like that would probably be the perspective you would get and that's fine
1454. 01:40:44 Just different
1455. 01:40:46 So I would be aware of that
1456. 01:40:48 All right, let's put the messy middle on the shelf. What's next joe?
1457. 01:40:53 Next is steel like an artist by austin kleon
1458. 01:40:58 Uh, I think I got tired of mike telling me about this and then me not having read it
1459. 01:41:03 So here we are. I feel like it's time we read this might guess to reread it for the 17th thousandth time
1460. 01:41:09 I'm sure so
1461. 01:41:11 I'm excited about this one. It'll be good
1462. 01:41:13 Is that have you only read it once or be read it more than that?
1463. 01:41:16 I think i've read it twice, but it's not something that I read every weekend like you make it so
1464. 01:41:22 So that might have been a slight exaggeration
1465. 01:41:27 Yeah, that'll be a fun one
1466. 01:41:32 So yeah steel like an artist and then what mike what are you what are you gonna put on us after that?
1467. 01:41:38 I've
1468. 01:41:39 I wrestled with this prior to the the show. I have a big stack of books that I want to read
1469. 01:41:45 but the one that I think would be great for bookworm
1470. 01:41:49 Even though it is now the third joshua becker book that we'll have covered
1471. 01:41:53 Is things that matter?
1472. 01:41:56 I have heard from people that this is the book that joshua becker was meant to write
1473. 01:42:02 and so
1474. 01:42:05 I want to unpack this I feel like this is
1475. 01:42:08 either
1476. 01:42:10 going to
1477. 01:42:11 resonate with us completely
1478. 01:42:13 or at least spur a lot of
1479. 01:42:15 crazy conversation
1480. 01:42:18 Yeah
1481. 01:42:19 Yeah
1482. 01:42:20 Yeah, I hear yeah, I think that'll be good. I really do so
1483. 01:42:23 Since we're both going to read more
1484. 01:42:25 What's your gap book mike?
1485. 01:42:27 I've got one right over here called digital zettlkastin by
1486. 01:42:33 David
1487. 01:42:34 kadavi
1488. 01:42:35 I don't know how to pronounce these last names. It's a short book. It's like 70 some pages
1489. 01:42:39 and
1490. 01:42:42 as you know, I am big into obsidian ding
1491. 01:42:44 so
1492. 01:42:46 I feel like
1493. 01:42:48 This will be an interesting quick read
1494. 01:42:50 I need a quick read after this one
1495. 01:42:53 Yeah
1496. 01:42:55 That was part of the discussion when we chose and decided to do the messy middle like okay
1497. 01:43:01 The one before it thankfully was a little short the one after it thankfully is a little short so we can we can do that
1498. 01:43:07 But here we are deciding to read more
1499. 01:43:09 I'm going to do a gap book. I just don't know what it is yet
1500. 01:43:12 Do you have a recommendation? I've not really done that on the show before second edition of how to take smart notes
1501. 01:43:18 Oh, come on
1502. 01:43:20 You can't be that mean. I'm just kidding
1503. 01:43:23 Uh, I feel like we're probably going to end up doing that at some point. Yeah
1504. 01:43:28 Off the top of my head. I don't know
1505. 01:43:32 Let me think about it. Okay. I'll pick something for you. Yeah a week. Got a week
1506. 01:43:38 Because I'll get through steal like an artist in a week now
1507. 01:43:41 If I follow the plan, right and then I'll have a week to do whatever's next. Yeah
1508. 01:43:46 So I got a week to find it
1509. 01:43:48 Yep, I don't know what it is. I'll tell you what it was when we record next. There you go. All right, so we have follow up next time. I like this time
1510. 01:43:55 I know right
1511. 01:43:58 Cool. So thank you to
1512. 01:44:00 everyone for listening all the way to the end. Thank you to people who have
1513. 01:44:06 Joined us live on youtube. You can do that at youtube.com/bookwormfm
1514. 01:44:11 Joe always tweets out the recording times ahead of time and uh some cool conversation that happens occasionally there
1515. 01:44:19 We see it all and it influences the discussion. We don't always respond to it directly
1516. 01:44:25 But for anyone typing in that chat, uh, who's wondering? Yes, we do see all that stuff. So thank you for for chiming in
1517. 01:44:34 Uh, thank you specifically to the bookworm club premium members who are willing to not just
1518. 01:44:39 Download the show and give us your attention, which we definitely appreciate that but people who are willing to support the show financially
1519. 01:44:47 You people are awesome. Uh, if you want to become a premium club member, you can go to bookworm.fm/membership
1520. 01:44:55 five bucks a month 50 bucks a year
1521. 01:44:58 But you get for that in addition to our undying gratitude and the knowledge that you're helping keep the lights on here
1522. 01:45:03 All the uh, my map files that
1523. 01:45:06 I put together for the books that we read pdf sand edit will my node files themselves a couple of gap book episodes bookworm
1524. 01:45:13 4k wallpaper
1525. 01:45:15 But the big thing is that you are a huge part of making this continue
1526. 01:45:20 So thank you to everyone who is willing to
1527. 01:45:22 By joe and i a cup of coffee once a month
1528. 01:45:25 Absolutely, and if you are one of those amazing people who has been reading along with us as all of you should be
1529. 01:45:32 Uh pick up steel like an artist by austin klion and we'll cover that one in a couple of weeks