223: When by Daniel Pink

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1. 00:00:00 Hey, Mike, you had an exciting end to the week last week.
2. 00:00:03 What did you get involved in?
3. 00:00:05 - Yeah, so last week we had our first live life theme event.
4. 00:00:12 And it was amazing.
5. 00:00:16 I mean, I figured it was gonna be a ton of fun,
6. 00:00:19 but it definitely even exceeded my expectations.
7. 00:00:23 We ended up having a pretty small group,
8. 00:00:25 so five people joined us.
9. 00:00:26 And yeah, that was honestly probably perfect,
10. 00:00:31 because we were really able to go deep.
11. 00:00:33 Basically, the way we've structured it
12. 00:00:34 is we had instructional sessions, which were about an hour,
13. 00:00:38 and then Q&A after that.
14. 00:00:40 Then we would break for 30 minutes,
15. 00:00:43 and everyone would go off
16. 00:00:44 and answer the reflection questions.
17. 00:00:46 Come back, and for 30 minutes,
18. 00:00:48 we would talk about their insights, their responses.
19. 00:00:52 And because there was a small group,
20. 00:00:53 we were able to kind of go deeper with every single person
21. 00:00:57 in the group.
22. 00:01:00 So yeah, we did that over two solid days.
23. 00:01:03 - Nice.
24. 00:01:04 - And yeah, it was amazing.
25. 00:01:06 Definitely think we are gonna do it again,
26. 00:01:08 although we were shooting for 10 people
27. 00:01:11 this first time around.
28. 00:01:13 Five was awesome, and now it's got me thinking,
29. 00:01:15 maybe we just have to cap this at five every time.
30. 00:01:18 (laughs)
31. 00:01:19 I don't know.
32. 00:01:20 I don't know, logistically, it's obviously,
33. 00:01:22 it's easier to make money on an event
34. 00:01:24 when you have more people there.
35. 00:01:25 But yeah, it really couldn't have asked for a better group.
36. 00:01:31 Weather worked out, you know, it was great during the day
37. 00:01:33 that it was one night we went out to dinner
38. 00:01:35 when it was supposed to be this big storm,
39. 00:01:37 but it kind of split and went around us,
40. 00:01:39 so that didn't affect us a whole lot.
41. 00:01:43 But yeah, it was so much fun.
42. 00:01:46 - For future plans, or for future events,
43. 00:01:49 like what are you thinking, oh, I would do this different,
44. 00:01:52 or I would keep this the same,
45. 00:01:54 like what are the highlights there?
46. 00:01:56 - Yeah.
47. 00:01:58 So I asked at the end, you know,
48. 00:02:00 what would you like to see different?
49. 00:02:03 And people had some very minor suggestions
50. 00:02:07 and tweaks for things.
51. 00:02:09 But in terms of the overall structure,
52. 00:02:12 I don't think we would change much.
53. 00:02:15 It was pretty great.
54. 00:02:16 I think we could probably require more practice
55. 00:02:19 and less things going wrong in the week of.
56. 00:02:22 But it'd be great to have Rachel be a little bit more
57. 00:02:26 involved in the presentation of the material.
58. 00:02:29 But we function pretty well as a team
59. 00:02:33 where I present the information
60. 00:02:35 'cause I'm the one who made it all anyways, you know,
61. 00:02:38 and then she's gone through it with me several times.
62. 00:02:40 So she pops in whenever she's got insight
63. 00:02:44 and color commentary.
64. 00:02:45 And every time we go through like live theme examples,
65. 00:02:48 we're both sharing our examples.
66. 00:02:50 So people have more context for stuff.
67. 00:02:54 I don't know, it went really great.
68. 00:02:58 I think maybe we would be building just a little bit more time
69. 00:03:02 for the reflection.
70. 00:03:03 We gave half hour for every time that people had to go off
71. 00:03:07 and think through their reflection questions.
72. 00:03:11 But, and then that could have been a little bit longer,
73. 00:03:13 but also, you know, I don't want to extend the event too much.
74. 00:03:17 We were basically nine to four,
75. 00:03:19 both Thursday and Friday with an hour and a half for lunch.
76. 00:03:21 And I feel like that was a good overall,
77. 00:03:27 like a structure in terms of time required and agenda.
78. 00:03:31 If you have people who are in the spot
79. 00:03:34 doing that sort of like heavy thinking for too long,
80. 00:03:37 it's real easy to cross the line
81. 00:03:39 and now everybody's just burnt out and wants it to be over.
82. 00:03:42 Yeah, that workshop that we run that I've told you about before,
83. 00:03:46 that it's probably been our hardest thing to figure out too,
84. 00:03:48 is how much time do you give people to do the activities
85. 00:03:52 before you bring them back in and debrief
86. 00:03:54 and then roll to the next activity.
87. 00:03:55 And I feel like no matter how much you do,
88. 00:03:59 you can't hit it.
89. 00:04:00 Like you can never hit it.
90. 00:04:01 Like we'll give more time one year
91. 00:04:03 and then people are like, oh, you give us too much time.
92. 00:04:05 Like there was too much sitting around
93. 00:04:06 and then we give less time the next year.
94. 00:04:07 And they're like, ah, we didn't have enough time
95. 00:04:09 to do that activity and then cohorts change.
96. 00:04:11 But we're we're running with like 30 people at this point.
97. 00:04:14 You know, so it's kind of hard, like you can't really,
98. 00:04:17 you can't please 30 people like no matter how hard you try.
99. 00:04:20 So yeah, so it makes it tough.
100. 00:04:21 Yeah.
101. 00:04:23 Well, that's awesome though.
102. 00:04:23 I'm glad it went well.
103. 00:04:25 Yeah, me too.
104. 00:04:25 I was pretty nervous about it.
105. 00:04:29 When are you running the next one?
106. 00:04:31 'Cause that's when people want to know.
107. 00:04:32 Not even going to think about it for a while.
108. 00:04:35 Okay.
109. 00:04:36 Yeah, lots of extraneous circumstances
110. 00:04:41 leading up to it, you know, that made it,
111. 00:04:44 made it a little bit, a little bit stressful.
112. 00:04:46 I'm glad that we're done with that.
113. 00:04:47 I'm glad that the Prexel PKM hybrid cohort launches
114. 00:04:51 is wrapping up.
115. 00:04:53 I want to get back into a normal rhythm
116. 00:04:56 and not think about that extra stuff for a while.
117. 00:04:58 And what month do you think that'll happen in?
118. 00:05:01 June.
119. 00:05:03 Okay.
120. 00:05:03 'Cause as we record this,
121. 00:05:07 my wife and daughter are leaving,
122. 00:05:09 we talked about this before we hit record.
123. 00:05:10 They're going to Hawaii for 10 days.
124. 00:05:12 Well, actually, I guess nine days.
125. 00:05:16 So yeah, I am a single parent for the next while.
126. 00:05:25 Yep, yep, yep, yep.
127. 00:05:26 Well, have fun, Rachel.
128. 00:05:27 Yep.
129. 00:05:29 So yeah, action items.
130. 00:05:32 I have mixed success here.
131. 00:05:35 So I took the quiz from Wild Courage
132. 00:05:39 and I took this before the live event
133. 00:05:43 and I don't remember what the results were.
134. 00:05:46 So that's really all you need to know about this quiz.
135. 00:05:49 It's definitely not one of the better quizzes
136. 00:05:53 that I've seen.
137. 00:05:54 It's more like a Facebook personality test, you know.
138. 00:06:00 So a little bit disappointed in that one.
139. 00:06:04 The idea of adding what I need now
140. 00:06:06 to the family meeting format is not done
141. 00:06:09 because we haven't had a family meeting.
142. 00:06:11 Since we recorded this,
143. 00:06:13 I haven't been able to squeeze in date night
144. 00:06:16 to pull that one off.
145. 00:06:18 Say no to the small things.
146. 00:06:20 I mean, I basically did that out of necessity
147. 00:06:22 the last couple of weeks.
148. 00:06:24 Congratulations.
149. 00:06:25 Yeah.
150. 00:06:26 You won that one.
151. 00:06:27 You won that one by not my choice.
152. 00:06:28 Yeah.
153. 00:06:29 Revamping my morning routine.
154. 00:06:31 This has not been intentionally done.
155. 00:06:33 So I guess I failed at that one too.
156. 00:06:36 And then I also talked about the bullet and bullet,
157. 00:06:38 the converting the email to three bullet points.
158. 00:06:40 I haven't done this,
159. 00:06:41 but I had another thought about the newsletter,
160. 00:06:44 which actually I'm kind of curious
161. 00:06:45 as to whether you like this approach.
162. 00:06:49 So I stole some inspiration from Saheel Bloom
163. 00:06:54 and I started doing my newsletter as a podcast.
164. 00:06:56 I think we talked about that last time.
165. 00:06:59 I also noticed recently that he sends his newsletter
166. 00:07:03 multiple times per week,
167. 00:07:05 but he basically breaks up the sections
168. 00:07:07 into different days.
169. 00:07:09 So there's three sections,
170. 00:07:10 but he sends them on like Monday, Wednesday, Friday
171. 00:07:12 and then like a recap on Saturday
172. 00:07:14 of everything that you may have missed.
173. 00:07:17 I kind of like that idea.
174. 00:07:18 I don't know if I'll do the recap thing on Saturday,
175. 00:07:21 but I've got the three different sections.
176. 00:07:23 I've got the something cool.
177. 00:07:24 I've got the book notes
178. 00:07:25 and then I've got the original essay.
179. 00:07:27 And I like the idea of breaking that apart
180. 00:07:29 and sending smaller newsletter chunks
181. 00:07:31 at different points throughout the week.
182. 00:07:33 Do you think that's a good idea or a bad idea?
183. 00:07:35 Should I just keep it all?
184. 00:07:36 It's like the one practical game newsletter
185. 00:07:38 with the three different sections.
186. 00:07:40 - You were asking the wrong guy.
187. 00:07:42 Like 100% you're asking the wrong guy
188. 00:07:44 because I load this probably not,
189. 00:07:49 it's probably an appropriate word.
190. 00:07:50 I load the email, like load it with a passion, right?
191. 00:07:53 So for me, for you to break your email
192. 00:07:56 into three chunks is now like more emails
193. 00:07:59 that I get that I already don't like.
194. 00:08:01 It has nothing to do with you.
195. 00:08:02 I love you, Mike.
196. 00:08:02 You're like, you're an amazing human.
197. 00:08:04 I just don't like email at all.
198. 00:08:06 So I'm definitely not your guy.
199. 00:08:08 Now from a people who are engaged
200. 00:08:10 and want to follow your content,
201. 00:08:12 I actually think the bite size chunks makes a lot of sense.
202. 00:08:15 - Yeah.
203. 00:08:16 - And then I think if you do that though,
204. 00:08:19 you have to send the recap email
205. 00:08:21 because I think some people aren't gonna wanna look at it
206. 00:08:24 until you send the recap one on Saturday
207. 00:08:27 'cause they're more of a once a week person.
208. 00:08:30 And then you'll have the other people.
209. 00:08:31 So I actually think you have to do both of those.
210. 00:08:34 That's just what my gut says.
211. 00:08:36 - Okay.
212. 00:08:37 - And I'm the guy who doesn't like email.
213. 00:08:38 - Yeah, all right.
214. 00:08:39 Well, since Corey's no help,
215. 00:08:40 I'll put it out to the book where I'm listening.
216. 00:08:42 - Very good.
217. 00:08:43 - Maybe I'll put together a poll
218. 00:08:45 and see what people think.
219. 00:08:47 I'm not sure where to even place that now.
220. 00:08:49 I guess blue sky, huh?
221. 00:08:50 - So this is a good place for folks
222. 00:08:54 to find us because we have access
223. 00:08:57 and control of all the most social media again.
224. 00:09:00 We've got Instagram.
225. 00:09:01 We've got threads.
226. 00:09:02 We've got eggs.
227. 00:09:03 We've got blue sky.
228. 00:09:04 We've got it all.
229. 00:09:06 Like, so now everything's up.
230. 00:09:07 Actually, I might a lot about blue sky.
231. 00:09:08 We may not, but where might not be on blue sky yet.
232. 00:09:11 But it's on all the other things right now.
233. 00:09:13 But yours Mike, I would have them come to you.
234. 00:09:15 Right, I would have them come to your,
235. 00:09:17 I put the link in the show notes for your personal stuff.
236. 00:09:20 - All right.
237. 00:09:21 Well, I'll figure out where that poll's gonna be,
238. 00:09:22 but I would love to hear from people
239. 00:09:24 because it's the same amount of work.
240. 00:09:27 Whether I would post, you know, three smaller snippets
241. 00:09:30 or one longer email.
242. 00:09:32 But yeah, I think I would probably like
243. 00:09:35 to get the smaller ones
244. 00:09:37 and then you can opt out of the ones that you don't want.
245. 00:09:39 You know, if you're not gonna use Obsidian,
246. 00:09:42 but you like the book notes and the general PKM essays,
247. 00:09:46 then you could just opt out of that,
248. 00:09:47 you know, the something cool part.
249. 00:09:49 But yeah, I don't know.
250. 00:09:52 Can I, can I redeem myself for help being helpful?
251. 00:09:55 - Sure.
252. 00:09:57 - I'd pick a schedule and I'd stick to the schedule.
253. 00:10:00 So like you send this out on Monday,
254. 00:10:02 this out on Wednesday, this out on Friday.
255. 00:10:04 Because then I can pay attention to the one I care about
256. 00:10:07 or the two I care about are all three if I want to.
257. 00:10:09 - Right.
258. 00:10:10 Yeah, that would be the goal if we did it that way.
259. 00:10:13 So all right, well, please chime in.
260. 00:10:16 I'd love to know my newsletter to be the,
261. 00:10:21 in the format that's people, people want.
262. 00:10:24 So all right, those are my action items.
263. 00:10:27 How about you, Corey?
264. 00:10:28 - So my action items, the first one I have
265. 00:10:30 is the truth or tales process.
266. 00:10:32 So what is the truth?
267. 00:10:33 And then what are you telling yourself?
268. 00:10:34 What tale are you telling yourself to reduce shame?
269. 00:10:37 Thankfully, I haven't really had like a one pop up in
270. 00:10:41 in the last time since we've recorded.
271. 00:10:43 So I haven't really thought about that one too much,
272. 00:10:45 but I think that one's gonna stay around in the old brain
273. 00:10:48 as things pop up and I go, is this the truth?
274. 00:10:50 Or am I telling myself a tale right now?
275. 00:10:52 So that one's a big red X,
276. 00:10:55 but that's an okay big red X for me.
277. 00:10:57 The identify my dynamic doesn't.
278. 00:10:59 I've actually thought about this one a good bit.
279. 00:11:00 I did not get to a dozen,
280. 00:11:03 but I've been trying to think more critically about
281. 00:11:06 like who are those people that you want to be around?
282. 00:11:09 Right, like who are those people that you want to
283. 00:11:11 engage with more and more and more and more frequently?
284. 00:11:14 So, you know, like I think I'm much more along the lines
285. 00:11:18 of like the five people.
286. 00:11:20 You know, you're most, you most resemble the five people
287. 00:11:22 you spend the most time with kind of a thing.
288. 00:11:24 I'm much more on that than than I am a dozen,
289. 00:11:26 but like I thought about this one.
290. 00:11:28 So this one's gonna be a yellow.
291. 00:11:29 I'm gonna give myself a yellow light on this one.
292. 00:11:32 'Cause I feel like I made a little progress, but not a ton.
293. 00:11:35 And then I only had two out of last week.
294. 00:11:39 So those are my two.
295. 00:11:40 So you couldn't fail as much as I did.
296. 00:11:43 Exactly, right?
297. 00:11:44 I could not fail as much as you like.
298. 00:11:47 Yeah, that's okay.
299. 00:11:48 All right, let's talk about today's book,
300. 00:11:51 which is When by Daniel Pink.
301. 00:11:56 And the reason behind choosing this one
302. 00:11:59 is that in 222 episodes of Bookworm,
303. 00:12:03 somehow we have never covered a Daniel Pink book.
304. 00:12:07 I feel like it's been referenced many times
305. 00:12:11 in other books that we have read,
306. 00:12:13 but we have never actually covered a Daniel Pink book.
307. 00:12:18 So I started looking at some of the different ones
308. 00:12:21 that are out there.
309. 00:12:21 He's written a bunch of them.
310. 00:12:23 And when was the one that sounded the most interesting to me?
311. 00:12:27 The subtitle is The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing.
312. 00:12:31 I mean, come on, who doesn't want to know
313. 00:12:34 the scientific secrets of perfect timing?
314. 00:12:36 Exactly, I agree with you.
315. 00:12:38 When you put this one out there, I was like,
316. 00:12:39 yeah, I mean, I've listened to other Daniel Pink books
317. 00:12:43 before while I've been driving and stuff.
318. 00:12:45 So I'm a fan of Daniel Pink's work and I thought
319. 00:12:48 this one was pretty good.
320. 00:12:49 Cool.
321. 00:12:50 The structure of this book is familiar yet refreshing.
322. 00:12:55 So there are three different parts as you do
323. 00:12:59 with your standard productivity book plus an introduction.
324. 00:13:02 However, the parts are all fairly short.
325. 00:13:06 So is the introduction to Captain Turner's decision?
326. 00:13:09 Then there's part one the day and there's two chapters there.
327. 00:13:11 The hidden pattern of everyday life,
328. 00:13:13 afternoons and coffee spoons, part two is beginnings,
329. 00:13:15 endings and in-betweens.
330. 00:13:17 So there's three different chapters there,
331. 00:13:18 beginnings, midpoints and endings.
332. 00:13:20 And then the last part, part three,
333. 00:13:22 sinking and thinking.
334. 00:13:23 So sinking fast and slow and then number seven,
335. 00:13:26 thinking and tenses.
336. 00:13:28 And there is no wrap up conclusion where I tell you
337. 00:13:31 everything that I just told you, which I kind of appreciate.
338. 00:13:35 And I think the best approach for this book
339. 00:13:39 is just to go chapter by chapter
340. 00:13:41 since there's only seven chapters shouldn't be a problem.
341. 00:13:43 What do you think?
342. 00:13:45 Yeah, I agree, I agree completely.
343. 00:13:46 I have a question for you as we get started.
344. 00:13:48 Okay, what's that?
345. 00:13:49 For me, this book read really fast.
346. 00:13:53 Like, I mean, I just felt like I like just sped
347. 00:13:56 through this book, not on purpose.
348. 00:13:58 I wasn't trying.
349. 00:13:59 Like I just felt like it was like a natural read.
350. 00:14:01 It went really quick.
351. 00:14:03 It wasn't, I don't think that the page count was all that small,
352. 00:14:06 but it just felt like it flowed really, really well.
353. 00:14:08 Did you have the same experience?
354. 00:14:09 Like did it flow for you too?
355. 00:14:10 I did, and I had the same thought
356. 00:14:13 and was kind of asking myself, why is that?
357. 00:14:16 And I think it's because his storytelling is superb.
358. 00:14:22 The stories, a lot of the books that we read,
359. 00:14:25 the stories are good.
360. 00:14:27 And then you have to be a pretty good storyteller
361. 00:14:29 just to get a book published that we would typically
362. 00:14:33 get on our radar basically for something like Bookworm.
363. 00:14:36 You have to be a pretty decent author.
364. 00:14:39 And so there's an element to like a certain level
365. 00:14:41 of storytelling proficiency that comes along with that.
366. 00:14:45 But many of the stories in many of the books that we read,
367. 00:14:48 you start to get the formula.
368. 00:14:51 You start reading a story, you're like, okay,
369. 00:14:53 here's another story.
370. 00:14:54 And then I feel like, okay,
371. 00:14:56 can I just skip to the end
372. 00:14:57 and see what the main point of the story is?
373. 00:15:01 You can't do that with a Daniel Pink story.
374. 00:15:03 I don't know what it is specifically about these stories,
375. 00:15:06 but those specific terminology and words that he uses
376. 00:15:10 keeps you engaged and attached
377. 00:15:12 for every single story that he tells.
378. 00:15:15 - I couldn't agree more.
379. 00:15:16 Like I thought, I mean, I thought they were all relevant,
380. 00:15:20 which, you know, we'll, I'll put a little,
381. 00:15:24 I guess foreshadowing out there, right?
382. 00:15:25 In the next book that I've already started reading,
383. 00:15:27 I can't tell you, I think the same thing
384. 00:15:29 about all the stories are in there,
385. 00:15:30 but we're gonna hold that for the next episode.
386. 00:15:33 But no, I agree with you completely.
387. 00:15:34 Like I think the stories were really, really good.
388. 00:15:35 And then I'm not surprisingly like, you know,
389. 00:15:39 a kind of research study nerd.
390. 00:15:42 So it's like when we're reading about these studies
391. 00:15:44 and how they link to the key points he's trying to make,
392. 00:15:47 like, I don't know, I just, I just jive with that.
393. 00:15:49 So that made a lot of sense to me too,
394. 00:15:50 as we work through them.
395. 00:15:52 - Cool, so speaking of stories,
396. 00:15:54 let's talk about the introduction here,
397. 00:15:57 which begins with a story,
398. 00:15:58 Captain Turner's decision.
399. 00:16:00 Captain Turner was the, or William Turner
400. 00:16:04 was the captain of the Louis Stania.
401. 00:16:09 - It's the Lissitania, Lissitania.
402. 00:16:12 - Lissitania.
403. 00:16:14 - Have you read Dead Wake?
404. 00:16:15 - No, I have.
405. 00:16:16 - By Eric Larson?
406. 00:16:17 - Mm-hmm.
407. 00:16:18 - Okay, so I've read Dead Wake by Eric Larson,
408. 00:16:19 which is, by the way, a phenomenal book
409. 00:16:21 if you're into the history of, you know,
410. 00:16:25 different wars and kind of the crossing of the Lissitania.
411. 00:16:29 But any, I'm sorry.
412. 00:16:30 - Lissitania. - All right,
413. 00:16:32 so this was a boat with a bunch of civilians, right?
414. 00:16:37 That just decided in the middle of tensions with World War I,
415. 00:16:41 we're gonna, we're gonna chance it.
416. 00:16:43 (laughing)
417. 00:16:45 - And it was during the whole U-boat thing.
418. 00:16:47 - Yep.
419. 00:16:48 - And like, you know, like, so the U-boats are traveling around,
420. 00:16:50 but like if you, if you read Dead Wake,
421. 00:16:54 it's just kind of fascinating,
422. 00:16:55 like how people made decisions
423. 00:16:57 and why they made certain decisions
424. 00:16:58 and why they didn't make other decisions.
425. 00:16:59 It's really, really cool.
426. 00:17:01 - Yeah, so the interesting thing about this story
427. 00:17:03 was that Captain William Turner is the one who is responsible
428. 00:17:08 for all these people on board, right?
429. 00:17:10 The boat obviously gets sunk by German U-boats.
430. 00:17:14 Happens on May 7th, 1915.
431. 00:17:17 And through the story, basically, there's this period
432. 00:17:20 where they can only go so fast.
433. 00:17:22 And then at one point, they've made it through the hard part.
434. 00:17:26 They see land at this point.
435. 00:17:28 They could just full throttle and outrun any U-boats
436. 00:17:31 that happen to be in the area, but they don't.
437. 00:17:34 So he could've gone faster, but he doesn't.
438. 00:17:37 They end up sinking the ship.
439. 00:17:39 Nearly 1200 people die, including 123
440. 00:17:42 of the 141 Americans that were on board.
441. 00:17:44 I'm not sure why Daniel Pink called out that specifically,
442. 00:17:46 but. - Mm-hmm.
443. 00:17:48 It's because that's what got America involved
444. 00:17:50 in World War I.
445. 00:17:51 - Ah, that's right.
446. 00:17:52 - 'Cause most of them were, most of them were wealthy.
447. 00:17:55 Like most of the Americans were like super wealthy,
448. 00:17:57 you know, kind of people.
449. 00:17:58 And now America felt like they had to respond
450. 00:18:02 and get involved in World War I.
451. 00:18:03 - Okay.
452. 00:18:04 I mean, this is not necessarily a story about World War I.
453. 00:18:07 This is a story about why didn't Captain William Turner
454. 00:18:11 floor it once he saw land.
455. 00:18:13 - Yep. (laughs)
456. 00:18:14 - And why didn't he zigzag?
457. 00:18:16 'Cause that was a common pattern then,
458. 00:18:17 is they would kind of zigzag their boat.
459. 00:18:19 And he didn't do that, even though it would've made sense
460. 00:18:22 to do that.
461. 00:18:23 He knew it was a channel.
462. 00:18:24 So why didn't he make the decisions
463. 00:18:26 when he should have made the decisions?
464. 00:18:27 That was what Pink was trying to get at.
465. 00:18:30 - Yeah.
466. 00:18:31 And I don't think in the introduction,
467. 00:18:32 he gives a very clear answer.
468. 00:18:35 He sort of alludes to different things later on,
469. 00:18:39 including like, well, it's the afternoon.
470. 00:18:40 So people make bad decisions in the afternoon.
471. 00:18:43 - Mm-hmm.
472. 00:18:44 - 'Cause they're tired, all that kind of stuff.
473. 00:18:47 But a very effective way to open up a book
474. 00:18:50 about making better decisions
475. 00:18:52 and then highlighting a story where a bad decision
476. 00:18:56 had very serious consequences.
477. 00:18:59 - Correct, nip, correct.
478. 00:19:02 - All right.
479. 00:19:03 - I mean, I don't really have anything to add here.
480. 00:19:05 I thought it was a great introduction to the book,
481. 00:19:07 but I also had some tie to it
482. 00:19:08 because I've read about that before, so.
483. 00:19:11 - Yeah, I can help me out.
484. 00:19:12 - I can see that.
485. 00:19:13 I didn't have any context,
486. 00:19:15 but I still thought it was a great story
487. 00:19:16 and sets the stage for the rest of it.
488. 00:19:19 We should probably go into part one next.
489. 00:19:21 So part one is the day.
490. 00:19:23 And then the first chapter here
491. 00:19:25 is the hidden pattern of everyday life.
492. 00:19:29 And this chapter, actually, I guess we should mention
493. 00:19:32 that each one of these chapters,
494. 00:19:34 up until the last one,
495. 00:19:36 is going to follow the same format now
496. 00:19:39 where it's gonna be a chapter about the material.
497. 00:19:42 And then at the end of each chapter
498. 00:19:44 is a time hacker's handbook,
499. 00:19:46 which has different chapters
500. 00:19:47 that correspond to the chapters of the book.
501. 00:19:49 And that is where you've got a bunch of the different,
502. 00:19:54 no, these are the five steps to whatever,
503. 00:19:57 or this is what you should do
504. 00:19:58 if you're going to apply this yourself.
505. 00:20:02 But with the hidden pattern of everyday life,
506. 00:20:05 this is really just kind of talking generally
507. 00:20:08 about the circadian rhythms that people have,
508. 00:20:12 and pointing out that our cognitive abilities
509. 00:20:14 are not constant as we go through our day.
510. 00:20:19 So figuring out your chronotype,
511. 00:20:22 talks about morning larks, night owls, and third birds,
512. 00:20:26 but regardless of which one of those you fall into,
513. 00:20:29 we all experience a day in three specific stages,
514. 00:20:31 a peak, a trough, and then a rebound.
515. 00:20:36 I'm curious, I think I know the answer,
516. 00:20:37 but which one of those do you identify with?
517. 00:20:40 - I was gonna ask you the exact same question,
518. 00:20:42 so I'm so glad you did this.
519. 00:20:43 I'm 100% a lark.
520. 00:20:44 Without a doubt, 100% a lark, right?
521. 00:20:46 I'm up way too early, and then by eight o'clock I'm done.
522. 00:20:51 Like I'm absolutely toast,
523. 00:20:52 the do not disturb comes on to my phone.
524. 00:20:55 You can do whatever you want to do after eight o'clock,
525. 00:20:57 and you're not getting anything until the next day,
526. 00:21:00 unless you catch me really randomly in a spur of a fit
527. 00:21:06 of actually getting work done.
528. 00:21:07 But I'm 100% a lark, how about you?
529. 00:21:10 - I think I'm probably in the middle.
530. 00:21:12 I'm not a lark, I'm not a night owl.
531. 00:21:15 I think I probably could've been classified
532. 00:21:17 as a night owl in college.
533. 00:21:20 But yeah, I don't like getting up super early.
534. 00:21:25 I can do it if I have to.
535. 00:21:26 I got up pretty early today because I had to adjust
536. 00:21:30 so that I can drop people off of the airport
537. 00:21:32 really early tomorrow. (laughing)
538. 00:21:36 - Mike, I've been like this since I was like 10 years old.
539. 00:21:39 Like I remember sleepovers at my friend's house
540. 00:21:41 when I was super young, and they'd be like going after it,
541. 00:21:44 and I'd be like, it's 10 o'clock, guys, I'm going to bed.
542. 00:21:46 Like I'm just tired. (laughing)
543. 00:21:48 - That's funny.
544. 00:21:51 Yeah, it was interesting to me in this,
545. 00:21:53 he talks about how students tend to do better at math
546. 00:21:56 earlier in the day.
547. 00:21:57 There's a section later about how schools really shouldn't
548. 00:22:00 start until later in the morning.
549. 00:22:04 I'm kind of curious with the discussion here
550. 00:22:07 about academics and timing.
551. 00:22:10 Like, is there anything you can do about that?
552. 00:22:14 I mean, the college schedule's pretty set, isn't it?
553. 00:22:18 - Yeah.
554. 00:22:18 Yeah, I mean, you're, so college is actually easier
555. 00:22:21 because students can schedule their own classes.
556. 00:22:23 So in most situations, if they know they're a lark
557. 00:22:26 or a night owl or whatever it is,
558. 00:22:28 they can adjust their schedule and they can load
559. 00:22:30 their schedule in a way that gets most of their classes.
560. 00:22:32 It usually can't get 100%.
561. 00:22:35 But high school and middle school and elementary school,
562. 00:22:37 like our schools in Colorado all,
563. 00:22:40 I don't wanna say all start at different times,
564. 00:22:42 but like there are shifts between elementary,
565. 00:22:45 middle school and high school to account for this.
566. 00:22:48 They've actually taken this research
567. 00:22:49 and they've designed it into the day.
568. 00:22:50 So I don't think our middle school start until like,
569. 00:22:53 I don't even know, 8.30, 9 o'clock or something like that.
570. 00:22:55 Like they start late where when I was in middle school,
571. 00:22:58 we started at 7.30, I think first bell rang at like 7.25,
572. 00:23:02 which I think is good because, I mean,
573. 00:23:07 kids, they're just not ready.
574. 00:23:08 Like they need more time to wind into the day
575. 00:23:11 and then they need to go.
576. 00:23:12 So I think it's a systemic problem in terms of,
577. 00:23:16 we make the schedule for the adults who are teaching
578. 00:23:20 and the adults who are dropping their kids off
579. 00:23:22 and then picking them up after work.
580. 00:23:24 We don't make it for what's best for learning.
581. 00:23:26 So I would completely agree that we need to be,
582. 00:23:29 to consider this more, it's just really, really hard
583. 00:23:32 'cause you're dealing with a lot of people
584. 00:23:34 and you're dealing with a lot of factors
585. 00:23:35 and busing and meals and parents' work schedules
586. 00:23:39 and all of that stuff.
587. 00:23:40 So it's a really hard problem to solve.
588. 00:23:43 - Yeah, he does get into that a little bit later
589. 00:23:47 and I'm not necessarily suggesting
590. 00:23:49 that we optimize specifically for one group
591. 00:23:53 over the other.
592. 00:23:55 It just occurs to me because he talks in this chapter
593. 00:23:58 about the different chronotypes,
594. 00:24:01 your own personal pattern of circadian rhythms
595. 00:24:03 and there really isn't one specific way
596. 00:24:05 that people are wired.
597. 00:24:06 In fact, he mentions Daily Rituals by Mason Curry,
598. 00:24:10 which is a fascinating book about a whole bunch
599. 00:24:12 of creative people and their daily routines
600. 00:24:16 and there's all sorts of different stuff in there.
601. 00:24:21 The one takeaway from that book is that
602. 00:24:23 everyone's got their own way that they make stuff
603. 00:24:27 or they do their thinking.
604. 00:24:30 The Time Hacker's Handbook that goes with this chapter
605. 00:24:35 talks about some different things to consider
606. 00:24:41 in terms of when you're going to do certain things.
607. 00:24:44 So he mentions that you should exercise in the morning
608. 00:24:46 if you want to lose weight, boost mood,
609. 00:24:48 keep to your routine or build strength,
610. 00:24:50 exercise in the afternoon to avoid injury,
611. 00:24:52 perform your best or enjoy the workout a bit more.
612. 00:24:54 That's kind of interesting.
613. 00:24:55 I never really thought about the actual things
614. 00:24:59 that you get from the exercise that you do being different
615. 00:25:03 based on when you decided to do the exercise.
616. 00:25:07 - Yeah, I think that's one of my big takeaways from this.
617. 00:25:10 So in the Time Hacker's section
618. 00:25:11 and then in the earlier section
619. 00:25:13 where he talks about research,
620. 00:25:14 he talks about it in the earlier section
621. 00:25:15 about our cognitive abilities being different
622. 00:25:17 at different times of the day,
623. 00:25:18 which I could not agree with more.
624. 00:25:21 There are times when I write better,
625. 00:25:23 there are times when I read and think better,
626. 00:25:25 there are times when I do math better,
627. 00:25:27 there are just times when,
628. 00:25:29 and I can tell you right now,
629. 00:25:30 I do nothing well from about 230 to about four, right?
630. 00:25:34 Like it's just, it's a lull in the day,
631. 00:25:36 he shows data on a lot of people have that lull
632. 00:25:39 in the afternoon and it goes to,
633. 00:25:43 I really liked where he started talking about
634. 00:25:44 like the other activities too.
635. 00:25:46 He throws a chart in that Time Hacker section
636. 00:25:49 analytical tasks, you know,
637. 00:25:50 here's where you should do it if you're this type
638. 00:25:52 of this type of this type of insight tasks,
639. 00:25:54 here's where you should do it.
640. 00:25:55 Make an impression, make it a decision.
641. 00:25:57 I think one of my big takeaways from this is,
642. 00:26:00 I don't really want to have my oil changed
643. 00:26:02 later in the afternoon, right?
644. 00:26:03 Because there's a much higher likelihood
645. 00:26:05 that the mechanic's going to leave a wrench in my car
646. 00:26:08 or, you know, they're going to mess something up.
647. 00:26:09 So it's changed the way I think about, you know,
648. 00:26:12 that he was the example that he gave in the book,
649. 00:26:14 the dental cleaning, or what was it?
650. 00:26:17 I forget what it was, but there was definitely
651. 00:26:19 a specific example where he was like,
652. 00:26:20 people who get this done in the morning
653. 00:26:22 have a much better experience
654. 00:26:23 than people who get it done in the afternoon,
655. 00:26:25 but I can't remember what exactly it was.
656. 00:26:27 - Yeah, that might actually be the next chapter
657. 00:26:29 that talks about the afternoon stuff, yeah.
658. 00:26:31 - Yeah, okay.
659. 00:26:32 - Before we go there, one additional action item
660. 00:26:34 that I had jotted down here,
661. 00:26:36 but I have to take back now is,
662. 00:26:40 I wanted to take the MCTQ, the Munich Chronotype Questionnaire
663. 00:26:45 to figure out my chronotype.
664. 00:26:47 And if you go to the link that he has there,
665. 00:26:51 there's the page for the assessment,
666. 00:26:52 and it says the online version,
667. 00:26:54 which until recently existed here,
668. 00:26:56 is in the process of being moved by its creator
669. 00:26:58 to another location on the web.
670. 00:27:00 And if and when it comes back, we'll put it here,
671. 00:27:04 but it's like, you can take the paper version
672. 00:27:07 of this instrument, but I have no interest in doing that.
673. 00:27:12 So that's kind of a bummer, I guess.
674. 00:27:15 This book was written several years ago,
675. 00:27:18 so it's not a surprise that not every link is still relevant,
676. 00:27:21 but yeah.
677. 00:27:22 - You could you be like me and just know what yours is.
678. 00:27:25 I mean, you could--
679. 00:27:26 (laughs)
680. 00:27:27 - I mean, I basically do.
681. 00:27:28 I don't, I probably don't need to take the assessment,
682. 00:27:30 but I'm a sucker for these quizzes as you know, so.
683. 00:27:33 - I know you are, I know you are, yeah.
684. 00:27:35 All right, you ready for chapter two?
685. 00:27:37 - Yeah, let's do it.
686. 00:27:39 Chapter two is afternoons and coffee spoons.
687. 00:27:43 And basically talking about the dip in the afternoon.
688. 00:27:47 (laughs)
689. 00:27:48 - Yep.
690. 00:27:48 - Traffic accidents tend to peak between two to six a.m.,
691. 00:27:51 but also two to four p.m.,
692. 00:27:53 and the most unproductive moment of the day.
693. 00:27:57 He identifies specifically as 2.55 p.m.
694. 00:28:02 - Yep, very, very detailed in his reporting here.
695. 00:28:07 - Are you done with classes by 2.55 p.m.?
696. 00:28:11 - It depends on the semester.
697. 00:28:12 So every semester is different.
698. 00:28:13 This semester I taught until 4.20,
699. 00:28:16 that was when my last class ended,
700. 00:28:17 and the afternoon was brutal.
701. 00:28:19 For the students and for I,
702. 00:28:20 I mean, it's just so hard this afternoon classes.
703. 00:28:23 - Yeah.
704. 00:28:24 I mean, talks about how midday breaks
705. 00:28:26 can help you overcome the trough.
706. 00:28:28 Frequent shorter breaks are more effective
707. 00:28:30 than the occasional longer ones.
708. 00:28:33 I think I tend to agree with that.
709. 00:28:37 Talks a little bit about,
710. 00:28:39 takes 25 minutes for caffeine to kick in.
711. 00:28:41 So drink it before you take a nap.
712. 00:28:45 You know, the whole idea of like the caffeine nap,
713. 00:28:47 that's a cool idea.
714. 00:28:49 I kind of want to actually do more of those.
715. 00:28:51 I tend to do that on Sundays.
716. 00:28:52 You know, we get back from church,
717. 00:28:53 I have a cup of coffee after lunch,
718. 00:28:55 and then I take a nap for a little bit.
719. 00:28:58 But yeah, I work from home.
720. 00:29:00 I could probably squeeze that in.
721. 00:29:02 - Oh, you could definitely.
722. 00:29:04 Are you familiar with yoga nitra
723. 00:29:06 or non-sleep deep rest?
724. 00:29:09 Have you ever heard of these things?
725. 00:29:10 - I've heard of that, the non-sleep deep rest, but.
726. 00:29:15 - Yeah, so this is another version of this
727. 00:29:17 that I don't remember if he talked about it or not,
728. 00:29:19 but I don't think he did.
729. 00:29:20 But it's like basically the precursor to a nap,
730. 00:29:25 and then you run through this kind of mental process,
731. 00:29:27 and it does very similar things that a nap does,
732. 00:29:30 but without the grogginess.
733. 00:29:32 - Gotcha.
734. 00:29:33 - And I've done that before,
735. 00:29:34 actually in my office at work,
736. 00:29:36 like I've done that before,
737. 00:29:37 and it's really effective,
738. 00:29:39 super effective in that lull time in the afternoon.
739. 00:29:42 - Yeah, my dad used to have this like day bed
740. 00:29:47 that he got from his parents that he had his office
741. 00:29:52 in a house, not next door,
742. 00:29:56 but pretty close to where we actually lived.
743. 00:29:58 And so like the downstairs,
744. 00:30:00 they rewired the living room,
745. 00:30:02 and the copy machine was in what used to be the dining room,
746. 00:30:07 but it was just a more comfortable place
747. 00:30:09 to work and big yard.
748. 00:30:12 So pretty nice environment,
749. 00:30:14 but upstairs was where his office was,
750. 00:30:17 and there was a bathroom across the hall.
751. 00:30:20 His office was in this bedroom with a window
752. 00:30:22 that overlooked the yard,
753. 00:30:23 across the hallway is this bathroom,
754. 00:30:26 which was laid out kind of weird.
755. 00:30:28 There was a shower and a sink on one side,
756. 00:30:30 and the other side was big and open.
757. 00:30:32 So he put this day bed up there,
758. 00:30:34 and frequently he would go into the bathroom,
759. 00:30:37 and he'd be in there for like 45 minutes,
760. 00:30:39 and you knew that he was taking a nap.
761. 00:30:41 - Taking a nap, I'm a huge fan of naps, right?
762. 00:30:44 If I could nap every day, I would nap every day, Mike,
763. 00:30:47 every day.
764. 00:30:48 - All right, well, I'm going to add that
765. 00:30:51 as an official action,
766. 00:30:52 and then take more caffeine naps.
767. 00:30:54 - I should too.
768. 00:30:55 - Another thing that he mentioned here,
769. 00:30:57 he shared a short story with us,
770. 00:31:00 where he used to think that breakfast
771. 00:31:01 was the most important meal of the day,
772. 00:31:03 and then he officially says lunch
773. 00:31:05 is the most important meal of the day.
774. 00:31:06 I think his point is not based on what happens
775. 00:31:08 when you digest your food,
776. 00:31:09 but basically you need to take a break
777. 00:31:11 at that point in the day,
778. 00:31:12 so lunch is a good opportunity to do that,
779. 00:31:14 but as intermittent faster, who doesn't eat breakfast?
780. 00:31:17 I mean, I agree.
781. 00:31:19 - Yeah, yes, yes, lunch is the most important meal of the day,
782. 00:31:22 because it's my first meal of the day.
783. 00:31:24 - Yep.
784. 00:31:26 - I think one of my action items comes out of this
785. 00:31:29 is this idea of lunch as well,
786. 00:31:31 or just kind of tying it into this idea of lunch,
787. 00:31:33 is I typically will eat lunch while working at my desk.
788. 00:31:37 Like I don't like to get up
789. 00:31:39 and take the official break to do lunch,
790. 00:31:42 so one of my action items would be
791. 00:31:46 take an actual lunch break
792. 00:31:48 and throw my phone on the counter
793. 00:31:50 and don't look at my phone during my lunch break,
794. 00:31:52 like actually do a lunch break.
795. 00:31:55 - Nice, that's a, I think you should totally do it.
796. 00:32:01 My lunch break was not,
797. 00:32:03 I didn't go to the length where I need to
798. 00:32:06 disconnect from my phone specifically,
799. 00:32:07 but I'm not really looking at my phone
800. 00:32:09 when I'm doing my work.
801. 00:32:10 That's actually typically when I will check social media
802. 00:32:13 and respond to stuff is during the lunch break.
803. 00:32:15 Maybe I should do that too, I don't know.
804. 00:32:17 The Time Hacker's handbook for this chapter,
805. 00:32:20 I just judge on a couple of things.
806. 00:32:21 One, there's a specific process
807. 00:32:24 for how to take the perfect nap,
808. 00:32:27 which is find your afternoon trough time,
809. 00:32:29 create a peaceful environment, down a cup of coffee,
810. 00:32:32 set a timer for 25 minutes,
811. 00:32:33 and then repeat consistently, so like do it regularly.
812. 00:32:38 And then the only other thing I jotted down
813. 00:32:39 from this section of the book was don't get rid of recess.
814. 00:32:44 Let the kids play.
815. 00:32:45 - Why do I say when you were with your kids or yourself?
816. 00:32:50 I mean, I needed it, like I needed to get outside
817. 00:32:53 and run around or else I was just kind of like a basket case
818. 00:32:56 sitting in my desk, like I'd been tied down too long.
819. 00:32:58 So I don't know if you had the same experience
820. 00:33:00 as I do or not.
821. 00:33:01 - Yeah, I don't know, I try to get up and move around,
822. 00:33:06 but I don't have a specific schedule for it.
823. 00:33:08 I probably should.
824. 00:33:10 I tend to, I'll sit down and I'll create
825. 00:33:12 and I'll focus on for a while.
826. 00:33:14 And then when I feel stuck,
827. 00:33:16 that's when I get up and walk around.
828. 00:33:18 And I grew up being homeschooled most of my formative years.
829. 00:33:24 I did go to high schools, I could play sports and stuff,
830. 00:33:26 but I probably have been doing this
831. 00:33:29 for as long as I can remember.
832. 00:33:30 Just like work for a while and then take a break.
833. 00:33:33 - I drink enough cups of coffee during the day
834. 00:33:36 and most of it's decaf.
835. 00:33:37 But at the same time, I drink enough cups of coffee
836. 00:33:39 that like coffee break or getting another cup of coffee
837. 00:33:42 as my get up and move around.
838. 00:33:43 And so that kind of gives me my natural flow of the day.
839. 00:33:48 - Gotcha.
840. 00:33:50 All right, ready to go to the next section?
841. 00:33:52 - Yep, we're in part two already.
842. 00:33:54 - Yep.
843. 00:33:54 So part two, three chapters here.
844. 00:33:57 The first one is beginnings.
845. 00:34:00 And this is really about how to start something.
846. 00:34:03 There's some interesting stuff in here,
847. 00:34:05 mentions that beginnings of a far greater impact
848. 00:34:07 than most of us understand.
849. 00:34:09 And this is where he calls out specifically
850. 00:34:11 the optimal time for college classes is after 11 a.m.
851. 00:34:16 - I could not agree more.
852. 00:34:17 Like, I think that is accurate, 100% accurate.
853. 00:34:19 - Yeah, but how, like what do you do with that information?
854. 00:34:24 You can't just push everything back for hours.
855. 00:34:29 I don't know, what time do classes actually start for you?
856. 00:34:32 - So our first class is eight a.m.
857. 00:34:34 - Eight a.m.
858. 00:34:35 - The first time slot is eight a.m.
859. 00:34:36 that you can have a class.
860. 00:34:37 And students don't like it.
861. 00:34:38 I mean, you'll get like one out of 30 students who's like,
862. 00:34:41 yeah, I'm a morning person.
863. 00:34:42 Like let's do this, right?
864. 00:34:43 And then everybody else is like--
865. 00:34:45 - Yeah.
866. 00:34:46 - Like they're all walking in, you know,
867. 00:34:47 like drinking their double triple espresso,
868. 00:34:50 you know, trying to wake up.
869. 00:34:51 - Yep.
870. 00:34:52 - But I agree, like the problem is your day goes too late.
871. 00:34:55 You know, if you actually try to do this,
872. 00:34:57 you know, you're, you have to roll into
873. 00:34:59 teaching at seven, eight o'clock at night,
874. 00:35:01 which would, I'm not gonna lie,
875. 00:35:02 would probably be better for the students.
876. 00:35:05 But, you know, like, I don't,
877. 00:35:06 I don't think that's ever gonna happen.
878. 00:35:08 - Yeah.
879. 00:35:10 I think that kind of leads to a general observation
880. 00:35:15 with a lot of the stuff that he talks about in here is,
881. 00:35:19 you kind of like, yes, there's science behind
882. 00:35:22 a lot of these things that he's sharing.
883. 00:35:24 And wouldn't it be great if, you know,
884. 00:35:26 I could get to this specific way of doing something?
885. 00:35:30 You kind of need to do what you can with what you have
886. 00:35:33 and then not worry about the rest.
887. 00:35:36 Don't get frustrated if you're a college student
888. 00:35:37 because optimally you wouldn't have a class
889. 00:35:40 until after 11 a.m., but those darn professors
890. 00:35:43 make you show up at eight.
891. 00:35:45 Like, it is what it is.
892. 00:35:47 - Well, and what I would like to know is, you know,
893. 00:35:50 and it's too hard to study
894. 00:35:52 because there's too many variables, too many factors.
895. 00:35:54 But is it like, oh, I'm 95% if we started after 11
896. 00:35:59 and I'm like 87% effective?
897. 00:36:01 You know what I mean?
898. 00:36:02 Like, is it like a big drop?
899. 00:36:03 Like if it's a big drop, okay,
900. 00:36:05 we need to address those ones.
901. 00:36:06 But if it's just like a, you know, five, 10% drop,
902. 00:36:09 yeah, we just, we can't change the whole system for that.
903. 00:36:12 - Right, right.
904. 00:36:15 - Yeah, so the fresh start effect?
905. 00:36:17 - Yep.
906. 00:36:18 - I feel this so hard all the time, right?
907. 00:36:21 Like, if I'm gonna start something new,
908. 00:36:22 it's gonna be on a Monday, right?
909. 00:36:24 Or it's gonna be the beginning of a quarter
910. 00:36:26 or it's gonna be the beginning of a month, right?
911. 00:36:28 Like, I will delay doing good things
912. 00:36:31 because it's not the optimal time to start.
913. 00:36:34 And it's like so wrong.
914. 00:36:36 It's absolutely so wrong.
915. 00:36:37 It's like, when is the best time to start yesterday?
916. 00:36:39 When's the second best time to start today, right?
917. 00:36:42 Like, don't wait for one of these birthday anniversary,
918. 00:36:46 new years kind of thing.
919. 00:36:47 Just get going, like get after and get going.
920. 00:36:50 And I could not have resonated more
921. 00:36:52 with what he said in this section.
922. 00:36:53 - So I agree with you
923. 00:36:54 and I did have jotted down the fresh start effect
924. 00:36:57 as a thing.
925. 00:36:58 I think that's good advice.
926. 00:37:00 No, don't wait for the perfect time
927. 00:37:04 to get started with something.
928. 00:37:07 But I also like the idea of,
929. 00:37:12 he mentions that this is a date
930. 00:37:14 that people use to end one period
931. 00:37:15 and begin another with a clean slate.
932. 00:37:18 And another way to describe those
933. 00:37:20 is maybe the temporal landmarks.
934. 00:37:23 So like the anniversaries, the birthdays.
935. 00:37:27 I think if you were going to,
936. 00:37:30 you wanna start working out.
937. 00:37:32 Don't wait until January 1st and create a new year's resolution.
938. 00:37:35 Just start going to the gym.
939. 00:37:37 That would be one way to kind of push back
940. 00:37:39 on this fresh start effect.
941. 00:37:40 But I think there's also some value
942. 00:37:43 in recognizing those kind of built-in opportunities
943. 00:37:46 to reset a little bit.
944. 00:37:48 - Yeah.
945. 00:37:49 - So like I kind of do this with the personal retreats
946. 00:37:51 every quarter, you know, every quarter.
947. 00:37:53 It's like, okay, it's a fresh start.
948. 00:37:55 You know, let's do something new here.
949. 00:37:58 So I think that this could actually
950. 00:38:00 have some positive application, as long as you don't pin
951. 00:38:03 too much on that.
952. 00:38:06 And then also kind of along with the personal retreat
953. 00:38:08 is identifying the habits and the routines,
954. 00:38:10 like the things that you need to do consistently
955. 00:38:12 to make the outcome kind of inevitable.
956. 00:38:16 By the way, I came across a quote today by James Clear
957. 00:38:20 that, and I thought of you when I read it
958. 00:38:22 'cause you kind of read me about the goal stuff.
959. 00:38:25 He said, "People who set goals want to win once.
960. 00:38:29 "People who create systems want to win all the time
961. 00:38:32 "or consistently."
962. 00:38:33 - That's good.
963. 00:38:34 - Yeah, that's good.
964. 00:38:36 That's good, Mike.
965. 00:38:37 That's a zinger right there.
966. 00:38:38 - So that's really the approach here I think is like,
967. 00:38:40 you can combine these temporal landmarks
968. 00:38:42 with these opportunities to look at
969. 00:38:45 and refine your systems.
970. 00:38:47 But it is interesting though that the gym visits increase
971. 00:38:50 not just at the start of the year,
972. 00:38:53 but also at the start of the week
973. 00:38:54 and the start of the month.
974. 00:38:55 I had never thought about it that way,
975. 00:38:57 but I'm sure that that's true.
976. 00:39:00 - So the gym I go to had a bump like a week ago
977. 00:39:03 or two weeks ago, and I kept asking the regulars
978. 00:39:06 'cause there's the people who are there when it's dead
979. 00:39:09 and then there's people who are there only at certain times.
980. 00:39:11 And I kept asking the regulars, I was like,
981. 00:39:13 "Why is it so crowded?
982. 00:39:14 "Did something happen?
983. 00:39:16 "Is there a I was thinking a temporal landmark
984. 00:39:19 "so I wasn't gonna say that?"
985. 00:39:20 But it's like, "Is there something that happened
986. 00:39:22 "that has caused the gym at 4.30 in the morning
987. 00:39:25 "to be this crowded?
988. 00:39:26 "What is going on?"
989. 00:39:28 I think the temporal landmark idea,
990. 00:39:30 if you think about it from a review point,
991. 00:39:33 like you're using it, like your personal retreat,
992. 00:39:35 it's a review point and I know that it's coming
993. 00:39:38 so I can always reevaluate at that point.
994. 00:39:41 I think it's incredibly effective.
995. 00:39:42 I think where this falls down for me,
996. 00:39:44 and I'll speak personally and probably other people,
997. 00:39:46 is when you push off a change you know you should make
998. 00:39:50 until I do my personal retreat.
999. 00:39:52 And I think that's where I took away from this one.
1000. 00:39:55 I was like, "Oh yeah, don't push that off,
1001. 00:39:57 "just now, start right now."
1002. 00:39:59 - Yeah, although I think even with that,
1003. 00:40:03 I might, depending on the specific scenario,
1004. 00:40:06 be okay saying we'll just wait till the next personal retreat,
1005. 00:40:09 but that requires that you've creased that
1006. 00:40:12 and you are doing that every quarter.
1007. 00:40:14 Once you have that momentum,
1008. 00:40:15 then it's easy to trust the system and be like,
1009. 00:40:17 "Well I'll just add that to the list
1010. 00:40:18 "and I'll think about that when I'm in the state
1011. 00:40:21 "to actually think about that
1012. 00:40:23 "because when you have the thought
1013. 00:40:25 "it's the worst time to actually take action on it."
1014. 00:40:28 - Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly.
1015. 00:40:31 - I didn't really have anything
1016. 00:40:32 from the "Time Hacker's Handbook" for this one.
1017. 00:40:34 I guess look for the days to make a fresh start.
1018. 00:40:36 That's kind of an interesting idea
1019. 00:40:38 'cause it doesn't always have to be the January 1st.
1020. 00:40:42 He gave a number, I didn't write it down,
1021. 00:40:44 but if you just considered the first day of the quarter,
1022. 00:40:48 the first day of the week, the first day of the month,
1023. 00:40:50 the first day of the year, your birthday, your anniversary,
1024. 00:40:54 all these other milestone days,
1025. 00:40:57 there's 100-something days, 100-something opportunities,
1026. 00:41:00 built-in opportunities, and you're calendar already
1027. 00:41:02 to make a fresh start.
1028. 00:41:06 - He gives a listed, a bulleted list of the most common ones.
1029. 00:41:10 One of the things that came out of the "Time Hacker"
1030. 00:41:12 handbook that made me think of you
1031. 00:41:14 is this idea of assume 18 months from now
1032. 00:41:16 your project is a complete disaster.
1033. 00:41:19 And you've talked about this before,
1034. 00:41:20 it's like, what's the worst that can happen?
1035. 00:41:22 The fear setting scenario?
1036. 00:41:23 And I was like, oh, this aligns with what Mike talks about.
1037. 00:41:28 So he would say, is by thinking through
1038. 00:41:29 what might cause a false start,
1039. 00:41:31 you can anticipate some of the problems.
1040. 00:41:32 So to avoid these false starts,
1041. 00:41:34 think about what would go wrong,
1042. 00:41:36 and then back into that and plan,
1043. 00:41:39 design around that, essentially, if you will.
1044. 00:41:41 So we do this in engineering,
1045. 00:41:42 where you think about what are all the failure mechanisms
1046. 00:41:45 of whatever thing you're trying to design,
1047. 00:41:47 and then you try to design around those.
1048. 00:41:48 You try to plan and design around those failure mechanisms.
1049. 00:41:51 So I thought that was a good point out of the Hacker handbook.
1050. 00:41:54 - Yeah, the fear setting that comes from Tim Ferriss,
1051. 00:41:57 he'd give a TED talk on it.
1052. 00:41:59 Have you ever watched that TED talk?
1053. 00:42:02 - No, I haven't.
1054. 00:42:03 - Okay, be curious what you thought of it at some point,
1055. 00:42:07 but I'll link to that in the show notes for people.
1056. 00:42:10 No, you don't need to have an action,
1057. 00:42:11 I'm associated with that unless you really want it.
1058. 00:42:14 But I think how you do that is important,
1059. 00:42:18 so it's easy to get excited about that general idea.
1060. 00:42:22 And then my experience,
1061. 00:42:24 if you don't have any sort of structure or process
1062. 00:42:26 associated with it, you'll start it,
1063. 00:42:27 and it'll feel uncomfortable and you'll quickly give up.
1064. 00:42:30 So sounds like you've got one that you do
1065. 00:42:34 in the engineering program,
1066. 00:42:36 but for people who maybe don't have that background,
1067. 00:42:40 I would recommend watching the 10 minute TED talk.
1068. 00:42:45 He's got a PDF that goes along with it too,
1069. 00:42:46 which will help walk you down that process.
1070. 00:42:49 But yeah, definitely a worthwhile exercise.
1071. 00:42:52 Talked about that at the Life Theme Live event.
1072. 00:42:55 Rachel actually brought it up.
1073. 00:42:57 She's like, yeah, Mike tricked me into doing this.
1074. 00:43:02 Because I was trying to work through the possibility
1075. 00:43:06 of going out on my own, leaving the day job,
1076. 00:43:09 and I was like, oh, what's the worst that could happen?
1077. 00:43:11 And she's like, yeah, that's the spirit,
1078. 00:43:13 thinking that I was just thinking more positively
1079. 00:43:15 and like, no, seriously, what is the worst that could happen?
1080. 00:43:17 I didn't tell her we were doing fear setting at that point,
1081. 00:43:19 but just kind of walking her through the exercise.
1082. 00:43:21 (laughs)
1083. 00:43:22 - That's awesome, that's awesome.
1084. 00:43:24 Snuck it in there.
1085. 00:43:25 - Yep, yep.
1086. 00:43:28 All right, next one is midpoints.
1087. 00:43:31 I mean, these are all pretty self-explanatory,
1088. 00:43:34 which is one thing I kind of like about this particular book.
1089. 00:43:37 But the thing that stands out to me from this chapter
1090. 00:43:40 is that hitting a middle point can do one of two things.
1091. 00:43:44 It can either give us a spark
1092. 00:43:46 or it can steal our motivation and stall our progress.
1093. 00:43:50 So spark or slump, essentially.
1094. 00:43:53 And it's not just humans that experience this.
1095. 00:43:56 You mentioned that even apes experience a slump
1096. 00:43:58 in wellbeing during the middle of their lives.
1097. 00:44:01 People tend to cut corners in the middle,
1098. 00:44:05 but there is also an exception to this, which is teams.
1099. 00:44:09 They tend to hit their stride about the halfway point
1100. 00:44:12 of a project because that's really when
1101. 00:44:15 you gotta get serious.
1102. 00:44:17 There's also a very effective story
1103. 00:44:19 and illustration here with General Sports Principle,
1104. 00:44:24 teams that are behind at halftime.
1105. 00:44:28 You obviously want to be winning in the game,
1106. 00:44:31 but it was interesting, the statistics show
1107. 00:44:34 that teams behind by one point at halftime
1108. 00:44:35 are actually more likely to win.
1109. 00:44:38 Lights a fire underneath them
1110. 00:44:39 and they come out stronger in the second half.
1111. 00:44:42 So that was interesting.
1112. 00:44:45 - Yeah, I see the uh-oh effect happen all the time.
1113. 00:44:49 Right, like students are doing work and whatever
1114. 00:44:51 and they're like, oh, I got plenty of time.
1115. 00:44:53 Everything's good.
1116. 00:44:54 I got plenty of time.
1117. 00:44:55 And then they go, we only have like three weeks
1118. 00:44:58 left in the semester and I'm like, yeah.
1119. 00:45:00 And we talked about, and we talked,
1120. 00:45:01 we started talking about this project six weeks ago
1121. 00:45:03 and they're like, yeah, we did.
1122. 00:45:06 Right, and you can like see the uh-oh effect,
1123. 00:45:08 hit 'em and hit 'em really hard.
1124. 00:45:11 I mean, I really liked this idea of the slump idea.
1125. 00:45:16 I liked that he directly attacks this idea
1126. 00:45:18 of a midlife crisis.
1127. 00:45:19 You know, that it's like, we call it midlife crisis,
1128. 00:45:22 but it's really not a midlife crisis.
1129. 00:45:25 It's really just a sag in, you know,
1130. 00:45:27 what we think is wellbeing or whatever it is.
1131. 00:45:30 And he said, we dip in the middle
1132. 00:45:32 'cause we're lousy forecasters,
1133. 00:45:34 which for some reason that like really drew at me.
1134. 00:45:36 It's like, oh, my projection or my expectation was wrong.
1135. 00:45:40 And then when it was wrong or my life has changed,
1136. 00:45:43 like my priorities have changed
1137. 00:45:44 'cause I think this is the biggest one for me.
1138. 00:45:46 I mean, I'm 40 now.
1139. 00:45:47 So I think the biggest one for me is like,
1140. 00:45:49 what I thought at 20 is nowhere near
1141. 00:45:52 what my reality is like at 40.
1142. 00:45:55 And it's like, that's okay.
1143. 00:45:56 Like there's nothing wrong with that.
1144. 00:45:58 It's just, if I still held onto what I held onto it
1145. 00:46:00 at 20 and 25, man, right now would be a really bad time
1146. 00:46:04 for me 'cause it's just very different, right?
1147. 00:46:06 I mean, you know, so many kids, so many kids
1148. 00:46:08 and priorities are just different than they were
1149. 00:46:10 at the 20, 25 stage.
1150. 00:46:12 So I really like the way he directly attacks that idea
1151. 00:46:15 of the midlife crisis and reframes it.
1152. 00:46:18 I'm a big fan of that.
1153. 00:46:19 - Agreed.
1154. 00:46:20 I also like, you mentioned the uh-oh effect,
1155. 00:46:23 but I like the term punctuated equilibrium.
1156. 00:46:30 Interesting that it tends to happen at the midpoint.
1157. 00:46:32 You know, you're talking about the three weeks left
1158. 00:46:35 in the semester.
1159. 00:46:36 We talked about it for the last six weeks.
1160. 00:46:38 My experience with like the big projects,
1161. 00:46:41 I think it wouldn't necessarily have occurred
1162. 00:46:45 right in the middle for me.
1163. 00:46:47 Like it would have been something that I heard
1164. 00:46:49 about at the beginning and I put off the entire semester
1165. 00:46:51 and so a couple of weeks left.
1166. 00:46:53 Like it's very much more towards the back half of that.
1167. 00:46:56 Do you find it tends to be in the middle though
1168. 00:46:59 for your students?
1169. 00:47:01 - It depends on the due date, right?
1170. 00:47:02 So everything's depending on the due date.
1171. 00:47:04 But I would say that for a lot of students,
1172. 00:47:06 it's the three quarter mark.
1173. 00:47:09 So it's the middle of the last half of whatever you do.
1174. 00:47:12 Right?
1175. 00:47:13 - Okay, yeah.
1176. 00:47:14 - That's what they start to freak out.
1177. 00:47:15 It's that three quarter mark and it's crazy
1178. 00:47:18 'cause it doesn't matter how much you tell them.
1179. 00:47:20 Like hey, when we get back from spring break,
1180. 00:47:22 everything's gonna fly and if you haven't started
1181. 00:47:25 on this project, you're gonna find yourself in a bind
1182. 00:47:26 and they get back and they're like,
1183. 00:47:27 "Yeah, I didn't do anything."
1184. 00:47:29 It's like, "Dad, got it."
1185. 00:47:30 So you just gotta keep going, you know, and keep encouraging them.
1186. 00:47:35 - Yep, I don't know that I have much
1187. 00:47:38 from a time hacker's handbook for this section.
1188. 00:47:41 I mean, couple like just specific things
1189. 00:47:45 which not action items associated with this
1190. 00:47:47 but talks about setting interim goals
1191. 00:47:50 or breaking things down.
1192. 00:47:51 I mean, that's part of the personal retreat process
1193. 00:47:53 for me anyways and then the concept
1194. 00:47:55 of don't break the chain pops up again here
1195. 00:47:58 but anything stand out to you from this section?
1196. 00:48:02 - So I think if I'm remembering correctly
1197. 00:48:05 when I was going through this is I took down
1198. 00:48:08 a lot of stuff here, you know, he gives five ways
1199. 00:48:11 to reawaken your motivation during a midpoint slump
1200. 00:48:13 and then five ways to combat a midlife slump
1201. 00:48:16 and I think I took down all of these ways
1202. 00:48:19 and like the notes that attach to them as a preemptive thing
1203. 00:48:22 because earlier he said that most males,
1204. 00:48:26 it's 52.9 years, right, we bought them out at 52.9 years.
1205. 00:48:30 So I'm thinking, I'm like, I'm going through this
1206. 00:48:32 and I'm like, well, I'm 40 now
1207. 00:48:33 and if I bought them out at 52.9,
1208. 00:48:35 I at least will remember, hey, I read that one book
1209. 00:48:39 and I have some notes on what to do, right,
1210. 00:48:42 when I realized when I hit this midlife slump.
1211. 00:48:45 So I took a lot of stuff here
1212. 00:48:48 just because I thought it was interesting.
1213. 00:48:49 Do you remember us talking about the Buffett technique
1214. 00:48:53 with his driver?
1215. 00:48:54 We read it somewhere else.
1216. 00:48:55 I can't remember where we read it though.
1217. 00:48:57 - Yeah, I think it was Port Charlie's Almanac.
1218. 00:49:00 - Yeah, all I remember is like the,
1219. 00:49:03 and I thought the exact same thing
1220. 00:49:04 when I read it this time is basically
1221. 00:49:06 you write down your 25 goals,
1222. 00:49:08 then you circle the ones, the top five
1223. 00:49:11 and basically it says, get rid of everything else.
1224. 00:49:15 And like that's the part where Mike, I always go, right?
1225. 00:49:18 Like 'cause it's like, hold on, no, no, no.
1226. 00:49:20 I wrote down 25, right?
1227. 00:49:22 I can't just get rid of 20, right?
1228. 00:49:24 Like I wrote down those 25 for a reason.
1229. 00:49:27 I think it's right, I really do.
1230. 00:49:29 Like I really think it's the right thing to do,
1231. 00:49:31 but man, like every time I read about that,
1232. 00:49:34 the Buffett technique, it's like, man,
1233. 00:49:35 I don't know if I can be that vicious.
1234. 00:49:38 And maybe that's why I won't achieve anything
1235. 00:49:41 of uber uber greatness on those top five.
1236. 00:49:44 - Well, you mentioned the way
1237. 00:49:48 that the Time Acres Handbook chapters are put together,
1238. 00:49:51 he does have a lot of like lists of things.
1239. 00:49:54 I, because of my approach to how I take notes
1240. 00:49:58 from these books that we read,
1241. 00:49:59 I just jot down the things that resonate with me.
1242. 00:50:01 I really, like I got to those sections,
1243. 00:50:03 I was like, I don't really care
1244. 00:50:04 what the five steps to avoiding mid-life crisis are.
1245. 00:50:08 Maybe 'cause I feel like I'm already there.
1246. 00:50:10 I don't know, I'm not 15, 52,
1247. 00:50:12 but I am more than 40, so I don't know.
1248. 00:50:18 But yeah, so I just jot it on the couple random points there.
1249. 00:50:22 But yeah, then that actually leads to something,
1250. 00:50:26 general observation about this book.
1251. 00:50:28 If I had read this when it came out,
1252. 00:50:31 I think I probably would have taken more detailed notes
1253. 00:50:33 because there were some things that he talks about in here
1254. 00:50:35 that I know that other books we've read have referenced.
1255. 00:50:39 The specifics, like there was a section in here
1256. 00:50:44 where it talks about the judges, the parole officers,
1257. 00:50:50 granting parole, being more lenient, basically,
1258. 00:50:53 at the beginning of the day,
1259. 00:50:55 bottoming out right before lunch,
1260. 00:50:56 and then it spikes again after lunch.
1261. 00:51:00 I've heard that story a bunch of other times
1262. 00:51:03 in other books and it sounds,
1263. 00:51:05 this was like the most authentic version of it.
1264. 00:51:07 This is probably where they all got it from.
1265. 00:51:10 So I don't know, I feel like if I had read this one,
1266. 00:51:13 it came out, I probably would have jotted down
1267. 00:51:16 all that stuff from the "Time Hacker's Handbook."
1268. 00:51:19 But yeah, just kind of sparse this time around.
1269. 00:51:23 - Yeah, that makes sense, that makes complete sense.
1270. 00:51:25 - All right, let's talk about endings.
1271. 00:51:28 And specifically here, let's talk about nine enders.
1272. 00:51:32 It sounds like maybe you just went through this.
1273. 00:51:36 - And I don't even, hold on,
1274. 00:51:37 I'm not remembering this at all.
1275. 00:51:39 What am I forgetting?
1276. 00:51:40 - Okay, so nine enders are people
1277. 00:51:45 in the last year of a decade.
1278. 00:51:48 - Oh yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay.
1279. 00:51:50 You just triggered it, yep, you triggered it.
1280. 00:51:51 - Yeah, so I mean, essentially like, if you're 39,
1281. 00:51:55 if you're 29, it's like, I'm gonna do this
1282. 00:51:56 before I turn, whatever.
1283. 00:51:58 And then once you get over that point,
1284. 00:52:00 it's like, ah, depression sets it.
1285. 00:52:01 I'm in a new decade. (laughs)
1286. 00:52:03 - Nope, I did not feel that for a second,
1287. 00:52:06 which is why I didn't take down a note on it,
1288. 00:52:08 because I was like, oh, I didn't,
1289. 00:52:10 I've never felt that.
1290. 00:52:11 I've never been like, oh, we're entering a new decade.
1291. 00:52:13 But nope, I'm just like, hey, it's another birthday, right?
1292. 00:52:16 Like, things haven't really changed that much.
1293. 00:52:19 And we're just gonna keep ploughing through, so.
1294. 00:52:22 - Yeah, well, the story that he tells with this
1295. 00:52:25 is people who decided to run a marathon,
1296. 00:52:28 you know, in the last year of their,
1297. 00:52:30 whatever decade they happened to be in.
1298. 00:52:32 And I have not ran a full marathon,
1299. 00:52:36 so I can't completely empathize
1300. 00:52:40 with the stories that he tells there.
1301. 00:52:43 But once he started telling those stories about people
1302. 00:52:46 who decided they were gonna run their marathons
1303. 00:52:50 because they were 29, 39, whatever,
1304. 00:52:53 that got me thinking, when was it that I decided
1305. 00:52:56 that I was gonna get into running?
1306. 00:52:58 - Nice.
1307. 00:52:59 - I don't think it was, well, I know it wasn't, yeah.
1308. 00:53:02 At that particular point, let's see.
1309. 00:53:04 So I was, my first race, I think was 2019,
1310. 00:53:08 so six years ago, I was probably 35, 36.
1311. 00:53:14 So kind of right in the middle.
1312. 00:53:16 But I can definitely see how this applies
1313. 00:53:20 to the running community.
1314. 00:53:22 (laughs)
1315. 00:53:23 It's always interesting to me how people
1316. 00:53:25 that I see at these different races
1317. 00:53:27 and then they're just like, yeah, I'm done.
1318. 00:53:29 You're like, well, what happens?
1319. 00:53:31 Like, I just decided, no, I'm not gonna do that anymore.
1320. 00:53:34 And probably because of this effect
1321. 00:53:36 that he's talking about.
1322. 00:53:39 - Mike, I had an action item, and you can veto this,
1323. 00:53:43 but I put in there Mike and Corey,
1324. 00:53:46 make a plan to run a marathon together.
1325. 00:53:48 - Oh, a full marathon?
1326. 00:53:50 - A full marathon.
1327. 00:53:52 Yeah, we'll have to find a really cool location,
1328. 00:53:54 maybe like, you know, Boise, Idaho,
1329. 00:53:56 or something like that.
1330. 00:53:58 (laughs)
1331. 00:54:02 I don't know, I'm not gonna veto it yet,
1332. 00:54:04 but I'm gonna reserve the right to do so in the future.
1333. 00:54:06 I have no desire to do a full marathon.
1334. 00:54:10 - Half is, I can say, so much training just for a half.
1335. 00:54:13 Like, ugh.
1336. 00:54:15 - I can honestly say that's probably a healthy decision.
1337. 00:54:17 Like, that is probably cool, right?
1338. 00:54:20 Well, it, like, if you're not gonna be like a go-getter,
1339. 00:54:23 like, sorry, how do I say this?
1340. 00:54:25 If you're not gonna try to run for time,
1341. 00:54:27 and like qualify for like Boston or whatever,
1342. 00:54:29 and you're just doing it,
1343. 00:54:30 like, it actually beats the tar out of your body.
1344. 00:54:32 Like, a full marathon beats the tar out of your body.
1345. 00:54:34 So, I kind of agree with you on that,
1346. 00:54:36 but maybe I can modify this to plan to run
1347. 00:54:38 a half marathon together in Idaho.
1348. 00:54:43 - That works.
1349. 00:54:44 - In Idaho, because there might be a chance
1350. 00:54:46 that actually happens.
1351. 00:54:47 (laughs)
1352. 00:54:48 - Sounds good.
1353. 00:54:51 - Mike, one of the things I liked about this chapter
1354. 00:54:53 were the encode, edit, and elevate.
1355. 00:54:56 Like, the way he broke the chapter into those sections.
1356. 00:55:00 This really kind of like,
1357. 00:55:02 connected with the way I think about this.
1358. 00:55:04 I'm not remembering exactly what the encode part
1359. 00:55:07 was right now, but basically these ideas
1360. 00:55:09 of midpoints, endings, beginnings, these all things
1361. 00:55:12 help us like, wrap an idea around this.
1362. 00:55:16 Then, we can then take that idea and we can edit it.
1363. 00:55:19 We can prune out things that don't make sense.
1364. 00:55:21 You know, we can add things that we want into there.
1365. 00:55:24 So, this is where your personal retreats
1366. 00:55:25 would become really, really valuable when editing
1367. 00:55:28 that way of life that we have going,
1368. 00:55:31 and then elevate.
1369. 00:55:33 I really got a lot out of elevators, like, okay,
1370. 00:55:37 how do we take it, and instead of thinking about it,
1371. 00:55:40 it's like, oh, I'm stuck, right?
1372. 00:55:41 Like, it's in midlife, kind of slump, or, you know,
1373. 00:55:45 oh, I didn't achieve everything I wanted to achieve,
1374. 00:55:47 kind of a thing.
1375. 00:55:48 It's like, okay, well, no, no.
1376. 00:55:48 How do I take this and ramp it up?
1377. 00:55:50 Like, I've done really cool things.
1378. 00:55:51 How do I take it and ramp it up?
1379. 00:55:54 And he wraps it up into, like, more actionable things
1380. 00:55:59 in the time hacker, but I just like this.
1381. 00:56:01 I like the three ways that he packaged that.
1382. 00:56:04 - Yeah, the thing that I liked out of this chapter
1383. 00:56:08 was the, he mentions, share bad news first,
1384. 00:56:14 and then good news because we prefer happy endings.
1385. 00:56:17 And my wife and I have had this thing ever since our kids
1386. 00:56:22 were real little, where we say, end on a win.
1387. 00:56:27 And so, like, this has meant a bunch of different things
1388. 00:56:31 throughout the years, but just as an example,
1389. 00:56:34 when they're real little and it's getting to be nap time,
1390. 00:56:39 they're at the playground.
1391. 00:56:40 You know that it's only a matter of time
1392. 00:56:44 before they hurt themselves.
1393. 00:56:47 - Oh, yes.
1394. 00:56:49 - You're laughing at it, you know,
1395. 00:56:51 you've experienced the same thing.
1396. 00:56:52 - I'm laughing hysterically because, yes, keep going, preach.
1397. 00:56:55 - So, as a parent, you know, I'm always, like,
1398. 00:56:58 not trying to, you know, protect them,
1399. 00:57:00 put them in a bubble.
1400. 00:57:01 No one hurt my kids, sort of a thing,
1401. 00:57:03 but you're just kind of watching them
1402. 00:57:04 and you can kind of tell when they are approaching that line.
1403. 00:57:09 And I was, at that point, you know,
1404. 00:57:13 going back and forth between the different kids,
1405. 00:57:15 I can tell, like, this one has reached their limit
1406. 00:57:18 and we should probably go before there are tears.
1407. 00:57:21 And at that point, you know,
1408. 00:57:23 my wife and I even have this, what do you call it,
1409. 00:57:27 like a signal, you know, like,
1410. 00:57:30 wrap it up, shut it down.
1411. 00:57:31 (laughing)
1412. 00:57:32 - You shut it down.
1413. 00:57:33 - And it's like, okay, it's time to go.
1414. 00:57:35 Aw, we don't want to go yet.
1415. 00:57:36 And like, yes, you do, trust us.
1416. 00:57:38 (laughing)
1417. 00:57:39 - The reason I, the reason I laughed so hard
1418. 00:57:41 is because we went skiing more this year
1419. 00:57:44 than we've ever gone before, right?
1420. 00:57:46 So our youngest one is three now,
1421. 00:57:48 and he was able to hang for the most part.
1422. 00:57:50 And you get down to the bottom of that run,
1423. 00:57:54 it's like later in the afternoon,
1424. 00:57:56 and it was a great run and everybody's having fun.
1425. 00:57:58 And like, what's going on in the back of your head?
1426. 00:57:59 It's like, should we do another one?
1427. 00:58:02 And the answer's no, don't.
1428. 00:58:04 We need to shut this thing down right now.
1429. 00:58:05 Everybody had a great last run,
1430. 00:58:08 just put the skis away, just go.
1431. 00:58:10 Just end on that win, right?
1432. 00:58:12 Really end on that win.
1433. 00:58:13 That's why I was laughing so hard,
1434. 00:58:14 'cause I was like, yes, this is 100% true.
1435. 00:58:17 - Yeah, I like the "Time Hacker's Handbook"
1436. 00:58:20 from this chapter two.
1437. 00:58:21 There's a couple things that jotted down here.
1438. 00:58:24 So first of all, there's a section,
1439. 00:58:26 when to quit a job, and there's five different questions,
1440. 00:58:30 and you should quit basically, he says,
1441. 00:58:32 when you answer no to two or more.
1442. 00:58:36 And I want to call this out
1443. 00:58:37 because this could probably be useful for people.
1444. 00:58:39 First question, do you want to be in this job
1445. 00:58:41 on your next work anniversary?
1446. 00:58:43 Next question, is your current job
1447. 00:58:45 both demanding and in your control?
1448. 00:58:48 That kind of gets into the idea of flow.
1449. 00:58:51 But third one, does your boss allow you
1450. 00:58:54 to do your best work?
1451. 00:58:56 The fourth one, are you outside
1452. 00:58:58 the three to five year salary bump window?
1453. 00:59:01 And number five, does your daily work align
1454. 00:59:04 with your long-term goals?
1455. 00:59:06 I think that's actually a pretty brilliant framework.
1456. 00:59:10 - I agree.
1457. 00:59:11 - Yeah, and then the other thing,
1458. 00:59:13 and an action item that I jotted down from this,
1459. 00:59:16 is he talked about the shutdown routine
1460. 00:59:21 and the whole idea of ending on a win.
1461. 00:59:23 And that got me thinking about how do I infuse joy
1462. 00:59:29 into my shutdown routine.
1463. 00:59:31 I've always struggled with a shutdown routine.
1464. 00:59:34 So that's one of my action items.
1465. 00:59:36 I want to figure out a way to make it happy.
1466. 00:59:39 I have no idea if I'm gonna be able to do this,
1467. 00:59:41 but I think it's worth considering at least.
1468. 00:59:44 - What's your first thought on like,
1469. 00:59:46 what would make your shutdown routine happy
1470. 00:59:49 at the end of the day?
1471. 00:59:50 - I don't know exactly.
1472. 00:59:52 So the thing that as a parallel that comes to mind
1473. 00:59:55 is like the why has this big bowl of mints
1474. 00:59:59 that you can after your workout,
1475. 01:00:01 you grab a mint on your way out the door.
1476. 01:00:04 And so like having the mint is sort of a celebration
1477. 01:00:07 for having done the thing.
1478. 01:00:09 I don't know what the celebration would be
1479. 01:00:12 for the shutdown routine.
1480. 01:00:14 You know, if I was, this is in a notebook
1481. 01:00:18 and I don't necessarily care about the historical artifacts,
1482. 01:00:21 but like one thing that comes to mind
1483. 01:00:23 is I've got my time block plan for the day, right?
1484. 01:00:25 So at the very end of the day,
1485. 01:00:26 just physically ripping it in half,
1486. 01:00:28 be like, that one's done, you know?
1487. 01:00:31 I don't necessarily want to do that specifically,
1488. 01:00:34 but something like that, I think,
1489. 01:00:37 adding that to the shutdown routine
1490. 01:00:38 probably translate into me actually doing it more often.
1491. 01:00:42 - Yeah, the first one that came to my mind
1492. 01:00:44 was ending the day by going to the gym.
1493. 01:00:46 So normally I go to the gym super early in the morning
1494. 01:00:48 because it's less crowded.
1495. 01:00:50 But like, I think that would be the joy of,
1496. 01:00:52 it's like, hey, great work.
1497. 01:00:53 Like you got a day done, you did it,
1498. 01:00:55 everything was fantastic.
1499. 01:00:56 Now go to the gym 'cause it's like,
1500. 01:00:58 you just end on that note of doing something physical
1501. 01:01:02 and then tie it into the fact that he says,
1502. 01:01:05 you know, the most satisfaction comes from
1503. 01:01:06 when you go to the gym in the afternoon.
1504. 01:01:08 I was like, it's a double whammy.
1505. 01:01:09 Like we're double whammy in this.
1506. 01:01:11 I don't think I'm going to do that though.
1507. 01:01:12 It just doesn't fit with the rest of life, right?
1508. 01:01:15 Like I mean, my schedule, I would stay out later
1509. 01:01:18 than I would want to stay out.
1510. 01:01:19 And that just doesn't fit with my life.
1511. 01:01:22 - Yeah, I am trying to get away
1512. 01:01:23 from going to the gym in the afternoon.
1513. 01:01:25 I do not like to be there when it's busy.
1514. 01:01:29 So-- - It's busy, yep.
1515. 01:01:30 - Yeah, yeah.
1516. 01:01:32 - All right, so the next section is part three,
1517. 01:01:36 sinking and thinking.
1518. 01:01:38 And the first chapter from this chapter six
1519. 01:01:41 is sinking fast and slow.
1520. 01:01:44 Play on the thinking fast and slow by Daniel Kahneman.
1521. 01:01:51 The idea behind sinking is, you know,
1522. 01:01:54 if you and I were walking together on the sidewalk,
1523. 01:01:58 eventually our steps would become in sync.
1524. 01:02:02 We would mimic each other.
1525. 01:02:03 That's basically an example of sinking.
1526. 01:02:08 And it talks about how groups have to synchronize
1527. 01:02:10 on three different levels, to the boss, to the tribe,
1528. 01:02:13 to the heart.
1529. 01:02:14 I'm not sure that there's a big takeaway
1530. 01:02:17 from this chapter for me.
1531. 01:02:18 I get the principle that he's talking about here.
1532. 01:02:22 He does introduce the idea of the Zeitgeber,
1533. 01:02:25 which isn't, I'm not sure if I'm saying that right,
1534. 01:02:27 but it's an environmental signal
1535. 01:02:29 that can synchronize the circadian clocks.
1536. 01:02:32 It's a German for time-giver.
1537. 01:02:35 That has me thinking about my environment
1538. 01:02:38 and the different things that I could do with it
1539. 01:02:41 to facilitate the structure that I want to have.
1540. 01:02:46 But I did think of a story here that is relevant for this
1541. 01:02:52 'cause he talks about how touch increases
1542. 01:02:54 cooperative behavior amongst teams.
1543. 01:02:57 Now you're not gonna go hug all your team members
1544. 01:02:59 all the time.
1545. 01:03:00 Like what does that actually look like?
1546. 01:03:02 And I played tennis in college and I played doubles.
1547. 01:03:08 So one of the things that we did as a doubles team,
1548. 01:03:12 you could basically at that level,
1549. 01:03:14 the difference between the teams that won
1550. 01:03:18 and the teams that didn't was basically
1551. 01:03:21 how well they worked together,
1552. 01:03:23 how well they communicated.
1553. 01:03:25 It wasn't, you know, this guy just always missed
1554. 01:03:27 the backhand volley so hit it to his backhand.
1555. 01:03:30 And one of the things that I was taught
1556. 01:03:34 was every single point, no matter what happens,
1557. 01:03:39 you go, you come together in the middle of the court,
1558. 01:03:42 you talk briefly, even if it's just a simple,
1559. 01:03:45 one line encouragement, hey, don't worry about that.
1560. 01:03:47 You got the next one.
1561. 01:03:49 And then you high five.
1562. 01:03:51 And just that coming together as a team
1563. 01:03:55 significantly increased how well you played together.
1564. 01:04:01 Which when you're talking about college doubles,
1565. 01:04:04 you really have to be in sync
1566. 01:04:05 because a lot of the points are over
1567. 01:04:06 within a couple of seconds.
1568. 01:04:07 The server serves to a specific place.
1569. 01:04:10 And then it's called poaching,
1570. 01:04:11 whether the person at the net is going to run across
1571. 01:04:14 as the person is about to hit their return.
1572. 01:04:17 You know, you need to time that right
1573. 01:04:19 if you're the person at the net.
1574. 01:04:20 And then if you're the server,
1575. 01:04:22 you have to run over to the other side
1576. 01:04:24 and protect the alley, the up the line
1577. 01:04:27 that your partner has left wide open.
1578. 01:04:30 But you don't want to move too soon.
1579. 01:04:32 You don't want to move too late.
1580. 01:04:33 You don't want to give anything away.
1581. 01:04:35 So that's immediately what I thought of.
1582. 01:04:39 And just a simple little thing,
1583. 01:04:40 like yeah, high five after every point,
1584. 01:04:42 how big of a difference that can make.
1585. 01:04:44 - Yeah, I think this one,
1586. 01:04:46 this chapter of any of them broke down a little bit for me
1587. 01:04:49 from the win theme, like the overall win theme.
1588. 01:04:52 I know what he's going for.
1589. 01:04:53 And I think he's accurate that you have to sink to the boss,
1590. 01:04:57 you have to sink to the other people that you work with
1591. 01:04:59 and you have to sink to the mission of the organization
1592. 01:05:00 that's happening at the time that it's happening.
1593. 01:05:03 Like I agree with that.
1594. 01:05:03 Like I think all of those are true.
1595. 01:05:05 This felt a little more general though to me
1596. 01:05:08 that like me sinking with the boss,
1597. 01:05:10 me sinking with the tribe,
1598. 01:05:11 me sinking with the heart, you know, of the organization,
1599. 01:05:14 those are just good practices, right?
1600. 01:05:16 Like if I'm not sinking,
1601. 01:05:17 whether it be timing or whether it just be thought
1602. 01:05:20 or whether it be motivation or what it might be,
1603. 01:05:23 like these are just general good practices
1604. 01:05:26 when it comes to working with others.
1605. 01:05:28 So this is where the overall theme,
1606. 01:05:31 I wasn't as worried about the win side of this one as much.
1607. 01:05:34 - Yeah, I agree.
1608. 01:05:35 It gets a little bit stretched at this part of the book.
1609. 01:05:39 In the Time Hackers Handbook,
1610. 01:05:40 he's got seven ways to find your sinkers high.
1611. 01:05:44 So different ways that you could sink with other people,
1612. 01:05:46 sink in a chorus, run together, row crew together,
1613. 01:05:50 which I've heard stories of people who have rowed.
1614. 01:05:54 I've never done that.
1615. 01:05:55 Have you ever been a part of a rowing team?
1616. 01:05:59 - I'm too big.
1617. 01:05:59 They don't want me on the boat.
1618. 01:06:00 - Yeah, I mean, I'm not like tall,
1619. 01:06:04 but I'm not a skinny little guy either.
1620. 01:06:06 So probably the same for me.
1621. 01:06:08 - I mean, just brass tacks of it.
1622. 01:06:10 Like my body fat percentage is too high.
1623. 01:06:12 Like they don't want me on the boat.
1624. 01:06:14 If you're gonna put mass on the boat,
1625. 01:06:16 you want the mass to be muscle.
1626. 01:06:17 Like that's all you want it to be, right?
1627. 01:06:19 - That's true, yeah.
1628. 01:06:20 - The most efficient muscle you can have and that doesn't.
1629. 01:06:23 I also never really had an opportunity to do that, so.
1630. 01:06:26 - Yeah.
1631. 01:06:27 Well, you could always dance, try to yoga class,
1632. 01:06:29 be a part of a flash mob or cooking tandem.
1633. 01:06:31 So there are other options.
1634. 01:06:34 - Most of those sound terrible to me.
1635. 01:06:36 - I know, me too.
1636. 01:06:37 - Most of those sound terrible.
1637. 01:06:39 - Me too, yeah.
1638. 01:06:40 So not a whole lot for me in terms of
1639. 01:06:43 what you actually do with this.
1640. 01:06:46 I guess it's just things to be aware of.
1641. 01:06:49 Ready to go to the last chapter?
1642. 01:06:51 - I am, yep, let's do it.
1643. 01:06:53 - Okay, so the last chapter is thinking intensives
1644. 01:06:57 and this really is just about how time can function
1645. 01:07:00 as a noun, an adjective or a verb.
1646. 01:07:04 I thought that was an interesting anecdote,
1647. 01:07:07 but also probably the weakest chapter of the book.
1648. 01:07:10 In my opinion, it's sort of functioning as the conclusion,
1649. 01:07:14 but it's still in this part three.
1650. 01:07:16 So, I don't know.
1651. 01:07:19 Interesting anecdote that only humans
1652. 01:07:22 can simulate the future in their minds.
1653. 01:07:27 I don't know what you'd do with that, I guess.
1654. 01:07:32 Think ahead more.
1655. 01:07:36 I did like the quote on page 218, though,
1656. 01:07:39 about writing, being an act of discovering
1657. 01:07:41 what you think and what you believe.
1658. 01:07:43 I literally did a webinar today
1659. 01:07:46 where I shared the Dawson-Trotman quote
1660. 01:07:48 that thoughts has entangled themselves,
1661. 01:07:50 your lips and pencil tips, and I always add
1662. 01:07:52 and also clicky keyboards.
1663. 01:07:55 I really do believe that you're right,
1664. 01:07:58 not because you have something to say,
1665. 01:08:00 you're right because that's the way you discover
1666. 01:08:02 what you have to say, whether or not
1667. 01:08:05 that gets published publicly, kind of doesn't even matter.
1668. 01:08:09 It's just part of the thinking
1669. 01:08:11 and the sense-making process.
1670. 01:08:13 So, but yeah, kind of a weird way
1671. 01:08:17 to wrap up this book, in my opinion.
1672. 01:08:19 - I would agree with you completely.
1673. 01:08:20 Like, I have very few notes in this chapter.
1674. 01:08:25 I didn't even, like as I reviewed them
1675. 01:08:28 prepping for the episode,
1676. 01:08:30 it's just not really like a huge takeaway.
1677. 01:08:32 Like, oh, the present's important.
1678. 01:08:34 The past is important.
1679. 01:08:35 Time matters, and I'm not, you know what I mean?
1680. 01:08:39 Like, I just didn't get a ton.
1681. 01:08:41 I didn't get a ton out of this chapter.
1682. 01:08:44 - And then also No Time Hacker's Handbook with this chapter.
1683. 01:08:47 - I agree, which I thought was weird.
1684. 01:08:49 Yeah, I thought that was weird too.
1685. 01:08:50 - Yeah.
1686. 01:08:51 I mean, I guess you can't have a part
1687. 01:08:53 that only has one chapter, but I don't know.
1688. 01:08:58 All right, time for action items.
1689. 01:09:02 So, I've got a couple here.
1690. 01:09:06 I've got one to take the assessment that no longer exists,
1691. 01:09:09 so maybe that'll come back and I'll be able to take that one.
1692. 01:09:13 The other two that I have are taking more caffeine naps.
1693. 01:09:17 And I guess, you know, since I have to do this regularly,
1694. 01:09:20 I should probably figure out the schedule
1695. 01:09:22 that I wanna take those on.
1696. 01:09:26 I don't have that yet,
1697. 01:09:28 but I'm gonna say specifically,
1698. 01:09:31 I want to have taken a caffeine nap on a day
1699. 01:09:33 other than Sunday.
1700. 01:09:35 We'll start there.
1701. 01:09:36 - Nice, nice.
1702. 01:09:38 I also want to redo the shutdown routine and make it happy.
1703. 01:09:42 And yeah, I guess specifically,
1704. 01:09:46 the thing I'd love for you to call me out on there
1705. 01:09:48 is whether I've got some sort of
1706. 01:09:50 like little celebration associated with that sparks joy.
1707. 01:09:54 - Okay, great.
1708. 01:09:56 So my two are taking actual lunch break,
1709. 01:09:58 so no phone away from work.
1710. 01:10:02 This is really hard for me to do.
1711. 01:10:04 It'll be easier for me to do in the summer
1712. 01:10:05 because I'm not in my normal work day.
1713. 01:10:08 But it'll be really hard for me to do,
1714. 01:10:10 especially once school starts back up.
1715. 01:10:12 And then my second one is figure out
1716. 01:10:13 a better ending to the work day.
1717. 01:10:15 So it's like I end and I have a commute
1718. 01:10:18 and you know, like I kind of do this,
1719. 01:10:20 but I think there's just a better ending to that day
1720. 01:10:23 that'll set me up better when I get home
1721. 01:10:25 to kind of walk in and turn into dad mode.
1722. 01:10:29 So I want to figure out what that might be.
1723. 01:10:31 I have no idea what that's gonna be,
1724. 01:10:32 but I want to figure out what that might be.
1725. 01:10:34 And then the last one that Mike and I both have,
1726. 01:10:36 which he's either gonna like me saying this
1727. 01:10:38 or not like me saying this,
1728. 01:10:39 is we're gonna make a plan to run a half marathon,
1729. 01:10:40 probably a night home.
1730. 01:10:42 So that's it, that's one of these.
1731. 01:10:44 - Well Idaho would be cool.
1732. 01:10:45 I mean, if you ever want to come to Wisconsin,
1733. 01:10:48 got a place for you to stay
1734. 01:10:49 for the Door County Half Marathon.
1735. 01:10:51 That's actually the one I just ran a couple of weeks ago.
1736. 01:10:55 I did it in an hour, 55 minutes, so.
1737. 01:10:59 - Nice.
1738. 01:11:00 - Some too, good work.
1739. 01:11:01 - 8.45 pace-ish, which is not my fastest,
1740. 01:11:06 but kind of didn't really care.
1741. 01:11:08 It was just for funsies, so.
1742. 01:11:10 - How'd you feel afterwards?
1743. 01:11:12 - I felt pretty good.
1744. 01:11:15 It's not like I took me days to recover or anything like that,
1745. 01:11:18 but was definitely sore the next day.
1746. 01:11:22 - We're getting old Mike.
1747. 01:11:23 - It's true, it's true, turns out.
1748. 01:11:25 That one's always fun though,
1749. 01:11:26 because it's through the big state park in Door County.
1750. 01:11:30 So it's really pretty.
1751. 01:11:32 Very hilly though.
1752. 01:11:34 So the Charlottesville, when we ran the Charlottesville one
1753. 01:11:37 in Virginia, there was a monster hill on that one
1754. 01:11:39 that was no fun.
1755. 01:11:42 All right, you ready to go style and rating?
1756. 01:11:45 - Let's do it.
1757. 01:11:46 All right, so my book, I will start.
1758. 01:11:50 We kind of talked quite a bit about the style already,
1759. 01:11:53 and I really like the style.
1760. 01:11:57 I wish there was a little bit more substance,
1761. 01:12:00 to be honest.
1762. 01:12:02 I think what he talks about is great,
1763. 01:12:05 and I love the flow of the part one and part two.
1764. 01:12:08 Part three, you definitely lost me.
1765. 01:12:09 It's kind of a weird way to end the book.
1766. 01:12:12 And he's the one who talks about how you end
1767. 01:12:15 is really important.
1768. 01:12:16 Endings alter our perceptions.
1769. 01:12:19 So actually, one thing we didn't talk about to my notes
1770. 01:12:22 is the James Dean effect,
1771. 01:12:23 where you're adding mildly pleasant years
1772. 01:12:25 to a very positive life does not enhance,
1773. 01:12:28 but decreases perception of the quality of life.
1774. 01:12:31 So what I'm gonna do here is kind of the James Dean effect
1775. 01:12:34 for this book, I feel.
1776. 01:12:37 Adding additional chapters, which are good,
1777. 01:12:40 but not stellar, decreases my rating on the overall material here.
1778. 01:12:47 And again, all of this to say he's way more successful
1779. 01:12:51 and a much better writer than I probably ever will be.
1780. 01:12:54 So part of this is who are you to criticize?
1781. 01:12:57 Daniel Pink for this sort of thing.
1782. 01:12:58 But I loved this book through the first two parts.
1783. 01:13:03 And then the third part hit, and it was like,
1784. 01:13:05 are we done yet?
1785. 01:13:08 - Yeah, I won't go as strong as that,
1786. 01:13:09 but I agree with you, it fizzled at the end.
1787. 01:13:11 - Yeah, and it was weird.
1788. 01:13:13 Like I got done and it was almost like it left a bad taste
1789. 01:13:17 in my mouth.
1790. 01:13:18 It wasn't a bad book, but he means it's definitely
1791. 01:13:21 still really enjoyed it.
1792. 01:13:23 I think I would recommend this one to just about anybody
1793. 01:13:26 in the bookworm audience.
1794. 01:13:28 But yeah, it was awkward to find myself thinking like,
1795. 01:13:34 I'm glad this book is over now.
1796. 01:13:36 What happened?
1797. 01:13:38 You know, when you're reading this two days ago,
1798. 01:13:40 this was like the best book you ever read.
1799. 01:13:43 So I'm gonna give it four stars.
1800. 01:13:46 Just because of the weird part three
1801. 01:13:49 and the weird conclusion.
1802. 01:13:51 But again, I'm very happy to have read it.
1803. 01:13:54 And I think I will definitely reference stuff
1804. 01:13:56 from parts one and two.
1805. 01:13:59 Those were absolute gold.
1806. 01:14:02 And I don't think that part three was necessarily
1807. 01:14:04 just tacked on 'cause he needed to have three parts
1808. 01:14:07 or the book wasn't long enough or anything like that.
1809. 01:14:09 But, you know, if you would have just taken
1810. 01:14:12 the first two parts, package that up and quit that page.
1811. 01:14:15 You know, I don't know where part three actually starts.
1812. 01:14:17 That would have been like ideal in my opinion.
1813. 01:14:23 You know, that's probably not ideal
1814. 01:14:25 from a publisher's perspective.
1815. 01:14:27 But yeah, absolutely phenomenal
1816. 01:14:29 for the first 150-ish pages
1817. 01:14:32 and then kind of let down a little bit at the end.
1818. 01:14:36 - Yeah, I'm gonna agree with you.
1819. 01:14:38 I think it was a four star book.
1820. 01:14:41 You know, wasn't by any means
1821. 01:14:43 my most outstanding favorite book that I've ever read
1822. 01:14:46 or that what I got like so, so, so, so, so much out of.
1823. 01:14:49 But at the same time, it wasn't also one of the ones
1824. 01:14:52 that would rank below a four.
1825. 01:14:54 So, I think I got a lot out of this one.
1826. 01:14:57 Thinking about, you know, just different things
1827. 01:14:59 from both a practical level through the Time Hackers Handbook
1828. 01:15:03 and from like a scientific, you know,
1829. 01:15:05 this is the research, you know, kind of a summary
1830. 01:15:07 of the research on these ideas level.
1831. 01:15:10 So, I liked that.
1832. 01:15:11 I liked the flow of the book.
1833. 01:15:13 I thought it flowed really, really well.
1834. 01:15:15 My, you know, chapter six and chapter seven,
1835. 01:15:19 kind of like you just described.
1836. 01:15:20 Like I got done with them and I was just kind of like,
1837. 01:15:21 okay, okay, you know, it's like, but like up until that,
1838. 01:15:25 I thought everything went, went really well.
1839. 01:15:28 Even in chapter six, like I, like the boss, the tribe
1840. 01:15:30 and the heart, I think those are good aspects.
1841. 01:15:33 I just think they're more broad than just
1842. 01:15:36 with the timing of things.
1843. 01:15:37 Like so, when you're going to call a book when
1844. 01:15:40 and you're going to talk about timing
1845. 01:15:41 and then you bring in these broader aspects to,
1846. 01:15:44 to those chapters, it's like, I just kind of had a,
1847. 01:15:46 a meh for the last part.
1848. 01:15:48 I would recommend this book to people.
1849. 01:15:50 Like I would totally tell them to read it.
1850. 01:15:53 And I, you know, I would not think twice about doing that
1851. 01:15:57 if they're thinking about things like this.
1852. 01:16:00 But I also don't think this is one of those must reads.
1853. 01:16:03 Right? Like that, I wouldn't throw this at somebody
1854. 01:16:05 and be like, listen, you have to read this book.
1855. 01:16:07 It is so good, you know, kind of a thing.
1856. 01:16:09 It just sits right there in a well produced good book,
1857. 01:16:13 little fizzle at the end, but otherwise, you know,
1858. 01:16:16 I think not only for the show, right?
1859. 01:16:18 I think it was a good book for the show,
1860. 01:16:19 but also just think it was a good book for me
1861. 01:16:21 to read personally and just generally.
1862. 01:16:23 So I was happy with it.
1863. 01:16:25 - Yeah, I agree.
1864. 01:16:27 This is a good one, just not to the,
1865. 01:16:31 to the level of one of the best that we've ever covered.
1866. 01:16:33 Although it definitely seemed like it was going to
1867. 01:16:36 hit that, that tear at the beginning.
1868. 01:16:40 All right, well, let's put a win on the shelf.
1869. 01:16:43 What's, what's next, Corey?
1870. 01:16:46 - All right, so I have the next book.
1871. 01:16:47 It is called The Confident Mind by Nate Zinser.
1872. 01:16:53 And Zinser is, is or was,
1873. 01:16:57 I didn't go and dig into the details,
1874. 01:16:59 a faculty member at West Point.
1875. 01:17:01 And basically, you know, as we're, as I'm looking through it,
1876. 01:17:05 it's his experiences working with primarily athletes,
1877. 01:17:09 but his experience working with people about confidence
1878. 01:17:11 and the way they're thinking about confidence.
1879. 01:17:14 So it's called The Confident Mind,
1880. 01:17:16 a battle tested guide to unshakeable performance.
1881. 01:17:20 So if you're gonna read along with us,
1882. 01:17:22 pick up The Confident Mind by Dr. Nate Zinser.
1883. 01:17:27 - Definitely have Inter-Excellence vibes with this one.
1884. 01:17:32 - I got the same thing as well.
1885. 01:17:34 If you write Inter-Excellence folks,
1886. 01:17:35 you're gonna get a similar thing.
1887. 01:17:37 And then Mike, you have our book after that, what's that?
1888. 01:17:40 - Yeah, the next book after that,
1889. 01:17:42 I honestly have no idea what this book is about.
1890. 01:17:46 I just have seen The Let Them Theory
1891. 01:17:48 by Mel Robbins showing up everywhere.
1892. 01:17:52 And it's consistently been at the top of the bestsellers list.
1893. 01:17:57 It looks like an interesting book from,
1894. 01:18:01 you know, what's interesting about this book
1895. 01:18:02 in particular for me,
1896. 01:18:04 at the top of the, like the New York Times bestsellers list,
1897. 01:18:07 they tend to be a bunch of white dudes
1898. 01:18:10 who are writing these books.
1899. 01:18:12 This is a woman who has written this book
1900. 01:18:13 and it has been at the top of those lists
1901. 01:18:15 for a very long time.
1902. 01:18:16 And I've heard enough people like mention this book
1903. 01:18:21 that it's actually been in my collection
1904. 01:18:23 I've had it now for quite a while.
1905. 01:18:24 And I remember buying it several months ago
1906. 01:18:27 and then just checking the list.
1907. 01:18:29 I'm like, it's still up there.
1908. 01:18:31 Seems like it's been up there for a while.
1909. 01:18:33 Like we should probably read this one.
1910. 01:18:35 So yeah, we're gonna cover The Let Them Theory
1911. 01:18:38 by Mel Robbins and for no other reason,
1912. 01:18:40 other than it just keeps popping up on my radar
1913. 01:18:44 and it feels like one that we should have read.
1914. 01:18:49 - Mike, it is a life-changing tool
1915. 01:18:50 that millions of people can't stop talking about.
1916. 01:18:53 - I know, and that sounds clickbaity
1917. 01:18:57 and like I won't like it, you know,
1918. 01:18:58 but at least we'll find out if I won't like it.
1919. 01:19:02 I mean, if you're up there by James Clear
1920. 01:19:05 and Atomic Habits for as long as she has been,
1921. 01:19:07 you know, there's gotta be some substance in there.
1922. 01:19:09 - Oh yeah, I would agree.
1923. 01:19:11 I would agree.
1924. 01:19:13 All right, kind of get books.
1925. 01:19:15 - So yes, we are planting a church.
1926. 01:19:21 So as part of the planting the church,
1927. 01:19:25 the senior pastor was like,
1928. 01:19:26 "Hey, would you read A Praying Church by Paul Miller?"
1929. 01:19:30 So if anybody is in the Christian community,
1930. 01:19:33 Paul Miller wrote a book called The Praying Life
1931. 01:19:36 or A Praying Life before that was really popular
1932. 01:19:40 about prayer and now it's A Praying Church.
1933. 01:19:42 I don't remember how new it is.
1934. 01:19:46 That's 2023.
1935. 01:19:47 So it's a fairly new book,
1936. 01:19:49 but that's gonna be one of the gap books that I read
1937. 01:19:52 in the time being.
1938. 01:19:53 I'm not gonna tell you I'm gonna get it done by the time we do.
1939. 01:19:57 'Cause is gap book has to be done before the next one?
1940. 01:20:01 - No, just basically what you're reading.
1941. 01:20:03 That's not bookworm related.
1942. 01:20:05 - Yeah, so that would be that one.
1943. 01:20:06 And just, I mean, spoiler alert for all the listeners,
1944. 01:20:09 pretty much all of my gap books
1945. 01:20:11 are either gonna be like work related
1946. 01:20:14 or church related and that's really where I'm gonna read
1947. 01:20:18 if I'm not reading bookworm type books.
1948. 01:20:19 - Yeah, that's cool.
1949. 01:20:22 I have a gap book which I'm not even sure
1950. 01:20:24 I'm gonna be able to read,
1951. 01:20:27 but this one came on my radar recently
1952. 01:20:30 and I was thinking through the live event.
1953. 01:20:35 The last several weeks, we talked at the beginning
1954. 01:20:37 about some of that experience
1955. 01:20:42 and I struggled really hard with that.
1956. 01:20:45 We didn't have no business running a live event.
1957. 01:20:48 We don't have a bunch of tickets pre-sold.
1958. 01:20:51 We should just cancel this thing
1959. 01:20:53 and who are you to do this?
1960. 01:20:54 So this book, I bought it several weeks ago
1961. 01:20:58 and I wanna go through it.
1962. 01:20:59 It's called You Can Just Do Things by Jeying.
1963. 01:21:03 I feel like maybe this is something that I need to hear.
1964. 01:21:05 Now we've gotten through the live event and it was great.
1965. 01:21:07 So, there's evidence there that we should do it again,
1966. 01:21:10 but I struggle with that imposter syndrome quite a bit.
1967. 01:21:13 And yeah, I think this will be a good one.
1968. 01:21:17 - Have I told you about a book called The Confident Mind,
1969. 01:21:20 right, that might help you with that?
1970. 01:21:21 (laughing)
1971. 01:21:22 - Yep, yeah, so that's the first one and that's a long one.
1972. 01:21:26 So that's why I'm not sure I'll get to this,
1973. 01:21:28 but it's like a couple other people mentioning this one
1974. 01:21:33 and there are quite a few books out there
1975. 01:21:35 that are titled You Can Just Do Things.
1976. 01:21:36 So this specifically is by Jeying and it's pretty short.
1977. 01:21:39 It's like 120 pages.
1978. 01:21:41 - Oh nice.
1979. 01:21:42 - So, so yeah, that's that.
1980. 01:21:45 And if you want to support us on our book reading journey,
1981. 01:21:50 we would love to have you do that.
1982. 01:21:52 You can go to patreon.com/bookwormfm
1983. 01:21:55 and I believe because of the Apple ruling now,
1984. 01:21:57 you don't even have to choose which option
1985. 01:22:00 if you're on your Apple device.
1986. 01:22:03 $7 a month to support the show.
1987. 01:22:06 You get access to a pro show,
1988. 01:22:09 which has no ads and a bonus segment.
1989. 01:22:12 Today we talked about my experiment
1990. 01:22:15 building a custom AI agent inside of my community.
1991. 01:22:20 You also get the bootleg feed,
1992. 01:22:22 which goes out right after we record this.
1993. 01:22:24 So generally about two weeks early,
1994. 01:22:26 our schedule's a little bit mixed up this time around,
1995. 01:22:29 but yeah, you get to hear all the mistakes that we made.
1996. 01:22:33 We get to hear us troubleshoot levels
1997. 01:22:37 with recording gear and all that fun stuff.
1998. 01:22:41 You get a bookworm wallpaper
1999. 01:22:43 and ultimately you get our appreciation
2000. 01:22:46 because that is, we don't have a ton of ads
2001. 01:22:48 and that is the thing that keeps the lights on here
2002. 01:22:52 for the bookworm podcast.
2003. 01:22:53 So thank you for everyone who throws a little bit of money
2004. 01:22:57 at the show.
2005. 01:22:58 We really appreciate it.
2006. 01:22:58 And if you want to join that amazing group of people,
2007. 01:23:01 you can do so at patreon.com/bookwormifm.
2008. 01:23:04 - Let me add one more thing.
2009. 01:23:06 Your appreciation is really the big one.
2010. 01:23:10 Thank you so much for doing that.
2011. 01:23:12 We have started to do it live stream as well.
2012. 01:23:14 - Ah, yes.
2013. 01:23:15 - So if you're interested in listening to us
2014. 01:23:18 talk about the book live,
2015. 01:23:19 we will throw that out through the Patreon feed
2016. 01:23:23 and you can watch it there as well.
2017. 01:23:24 So I just wanted to make sure we threw that in there too.
2018. 01:23:26 - Yeah, props to Corey for setting all that up.
2019. 01:23:29 All right, well, if you are reading along with us,
2020. 01:23:32 pick up Confident Mind by Dr. Nate Zinzer
2021. 01:23:35 and we will talk to you in a couple of weeks.