249: What You're Made For by George Raveling

Click any line to jump to that moment.

1. 00:00:00 This episode of Bookworm is brought to you by the St. Louis Pen Show, June 25th through June 28th.
2. 00:00:05 Find out more and get your ticket now at stlpenshow.com.
3. 00:00:11 All right, Corey, let's do some follow-up.
4. 00:00:13 You've got a couple of them here, and I know we don't have to get into specifics,
5. 00:00:18 but I do want to give you the public forum to declare your victory in doing these action items, so...
6. 00:00:27 Mike, I did all of my action items, but not...
7. 00:00:30 I didn't just do them.
8. 00:00:32 Here's the value of this, right?
9. 00:00:33 Like, here's the great thing is...
10. 00:00:36 I didn't just do them, okay?
11. 00:00:40 I did them successfully.
12. 00:00:43 Like, I got something out of them.
13. 00:00:45 Like, I feel so good about having done them, and that was the text I sent to you.
14. 00:00:50 To the point of my focus question, right?
15. 00:00:54 So, the authors of the last book were saying, "How to live a meaningful life."
16. 00:01:01 What the authors of "How to live a meaningful life" were saying was, "Who am I becoming?"
17. 00:01:04 Your focus question should be, "Who am I becoming?"
18. 00:01:07 So, I say, "I am becoming someone who pours into others to help them know the Lord,
19. 00:01:11 love the Lord, and advance his kingdom."
20. 00:01:13 And it's like, done.
21. 00:01:14 Like, it came so naturally, it was just there.
22. 00:01:18 Like, it was 100% there, and I was like, "Oh, this is it."
23. 00:01:23 Like, done.
24. 00:01:24 Like, this is fantastic, and that felt really, really good.
25. 00:01:27 So, I'm pretty happy about that one.
26. 00:01:29 I feel really good about that one.
27. 00:01:31 The second one is, "Is there a formative community that needs to be developed?"
28. 00:01:35 What I'm encouraged by on this one is, yes, I'm excited about it.
29. 00:01:40 There's actually two in my mind, and the question is, figure out which one, which one's the
30. 00:01:44 one that needs to be developed in now, and that's the exciting part.
31. 00:01:49 And that's the one I'm not going to go into details on.
32. 00:01:52 But it's like, yes, there are two that are very, very valuable, low hanging fruit.
33. 00:01:57 We should do those tomorrow, and I'm excited about this.
34. 00:02:01 Nice.
35. 00:02:02 Yeah.
36. 00:02:03 How about you?
37. 00:02:04 Mine was to consider how to make the library a more formative community.
38. 00:02:09 And this was never going to be completed within a week.
39. 00:02:13 But I would say, if we're going to give ourselves a grade, this is a green check mark, and it
40. 00:02:17 is done because this is something that I have been turning over and over in my head for
41. 00:02:21 a long time.
42. 00:02:23 It was actually sort of the genesis of the pro show today, where you gave me some feedback
43. 00:02:27 on a signature framework that I'm developing, which is broader than just teach people how
44. 00:02:32 to use Obsidian.
45. 00:02:33 I've been really thinking through, like, what am I actually trying to help people do that's
46. 00:02:38 important, not just use an app better, but what's the outcome they're trying to achieve?
47. 00:02:43 I feel like I'm getting closer to that.
48. 00:02:45 But also the whole idea of the formative community led me down a rabbit trail where
49. 00:02:52 it actually is influenced by the book I'm going to pick next for Bookworm.
50. 00:02:58 And so I'm not going to share exactly what that is, but I will share that there was a
51. 00:03:02 podcast episode.
52. 00:03:03 And I'll put the link in the show notes for people who are interested in this.
53. 00:03:07 But there's a Nathan Berry show episode where he's talking to the author and his business
54. 00:03:14 partner from this book that we're going to cover in the future.
55. 00:03:17 And they're telling all these stories about how they're just blowing people's minds with
56. 00:03:22 surprise and delight.
57. 00:03:24 And that really got me thinking about the library is my community, right?
58. 00:03:29 So how do I make it a more formative community?
59. 00:03:31 I have to first of all, I feel get clear on who am I really trying to attract to the
60. 00:03:36 library?
61. 00:03:37 What outcome am I trying to help them achieve?
62. 00:03:40 Once I get clear on that and I'm making progress on that, then it becomes what's the absolute
63. 00:03:44 best version of that that I can deliver to people, regardless of the cost, regardless
64. 00:03:49 of what scales, yada, yada, yada.
65. 00:03:51 And that's exciting to think about, to be honest.
66. 00:03:54 So I've got a lot more work to do with this, but we're making progress.
67. 00:03:59 Nice.
68. 00:04:00 That's awesome.
69. 00:04:01 Yeah, that's exciting to hear.
70. 00:04:02 All right.
71. 00:04:03 I guess that's it for follow up.
72. 00:04:05 So let's get into the book.
73. 00:04:08 The book today is an interesting one.
74. 00:04:10 What you were made for by George Raveling, have you ever heard of this book before I
75. 00:04:15 picked it?
76. 00:04:16 Okay.
77. 00:04:17 The only very, very slight thing I had seen was something come across Instagram on Ryan
78. 00:04:22 Holiday's Instagram feed that basically said, George Raveling's going to write a book or
79. 00:04:26 he wrote a book and it's coming out soon.
80. 00:04:29 And that's it.
81. 00:04:30 And I was like, who the heck's George Raveling?
82. 00:04:31 Like I have no idea who this guy is.
83. 00:04:32 And I don't even know, I just knew he was associated with basketball.
84. 00:04:38 That's all I knew.
85. 00:04:39 I had no idea anything else.
86. 00:04:41 And it wasn't interesting enough for me to like go research more.
87. 00:04:44 So I was like, okay, whatever, Ryan Holiday thinks this guy's good, which Ryan Holiday
88. 00:04:48 wrote the forward, which I now understand, you know, was it was it the forward or did
89. 00:04:53 he just write a blurb for it?
90. 00:04:54 I can't remember.
91. 00:04:55 I don't think he wrote the forward.
92. 00:04:56 Okay.
93. 00:04:57 There's some other famous person who wrote the.
94. 00:04:58 Oh, Michael Jordan wrote the book.
95. 00:04:59 Yeah.
96. 00:05:00 Michael Jordan wrote the book.
97. 00:05:01 So Ryan Holiday just just gave a blurb about the book.
98. 00:05:05 Ryan Holiday helped publish this book and so I'm probably going to mess up this part of
99. 00:05:12 the story, but it goes something along the lines of George Raveling got introduced to
100. 00:05:19 Ryan Holiday because Ryan gave a talk to like the San Antonio Spurs or something and
101. 00:05:25 George Raveling was associated with the coaching staff there, not that he was like on the staff,
102. 00:05:32 but someone's like, hey, you got to meet this guy.
103. 00:05:34 He's awesome.
104. 00:05:35 So Ryan's like, okay.
105. 00:05:36 And then he meets him and just incredible person has all these crazy stories and all
106. 00:05:41 his wisdom to share and Ryan's like, we need to get this written down.
107. 00:05:45 This needs to exist in the world.
108. 00:05:47 So helped him publish this book.
109. 00:05:49 Nice.
110. 00:05:50 And I'm very glad that he did that.
111. 00:05:52 There are some crazy stories in here, which we'll probably talk about a couple of them.
112. 00:05:58 There's too many chapters to go through everything here.
113. 00:06:01 So let me just talk briefly about the format of the book.
114. 00:06:04 It's actually under 200 pages.
115. 00:06:06 So it's not super long, but there's a forward.
116. 00:06:09 There's an introduction.
117. 00:06:11 And then there are basically a whole bunch of smaller chapters that are some form of two
118. 00:06:18 fill in the blank.
119. 00:06:20 So what you're made for these are like answers to that question to be a trailblazer to listen
120. 00:06:24 and learn to seek out wisdom, et cetera.
121. 00:06:26 There's a whole bunch of these.
122. 00:06:28 And then it ends with one called to live.
123. 00:06:32 And so we're going to hit on the for the introduction and to live because that is a kind of a standard
124. 00:06:39 conclusion format chapter.
125. 00:06:42 But then the other ones, we're going to pick and choose the ones that we really want to
126. 00:06:46 talk about for the podcast here.
127. 00:06:48 So all kind of formatted the same way, George shares some crazy story, breaks out the nugget
128. 00:06:54 of wisdom from that and talks about how you can apply it to your own life, ends with a
129. 00:06:57 little bit of an inspirational thing.
130. 00:06:59 And then the one line, you know, to study books, for example, that's like how he studies, how
131. 00:07:05 he ends that particular chapter before you move on to the next one.
132. 00:07:08 Yeah.
133. 00:07:09 I mean, I, I, we've done books like this before where it's like these little nuggets pop nuggets
134. 00:07:16 pop.
135. 00:07:17 I thought this was a good balance of them in terms of there weren't too many.
136. 00:07:22 The chapters actually had some like meat in them, but at the same time, they were not
137. 00:07:29 like huge and long and, you know, boring either.
138. 00:07:32 So I thought he did a really good job balancing them.
139. 00:07:36 Some of them hit better than others or some of the hit more than others as you're going
140. 00:07:39 to tell by the fact that Mike and I chose the ones that are, I want to say most interesting
141. 00:07:44 to us, but the ones we, we're, we're good to talk about here and maybe we're most interesting
142. 00:07:48 to us.
143. 00:07:49 But overall, like I thought the, the structure of the book worked well and made sense.
144. 00:07:55 Awesome.
145. 00:07:56 Let's start with the forward.
146. 00:07:59 This was written, as you mentioned by Michael Jordan.
147. 00:08:04 And the story behind why Michael Jordan was selected to do this, George is one of those
148. 00:08:10 people who has a significant impact in the lives of a lot of different people.
149. 00:08:16 And probably could have picked any number of famous people to write this forward.
150. 00:08:23 Michael Jordan is the one that is interesting in this particular case because argument could
151. 00:08:30 be made that he is the best basketball player of all time.
152. 00:08:32 I would argue he is maybe some of the young ins would would say LeBron is something.
153. 00:08:38 I don't know.
154. 00:08:39 That's probably a good chance to say this, Mike.
155. 00:08:41 I know I might, I maybe should hold this to style and rating.
156. 00:08:44 Dear listener, I don't care about basketball at all.
157. 00:08:49 Like zero care about basketball.
158. 00:08:50 Like I'm interested in people who do athletic accomplishments and feats and all that stuff.
159. 00:08:55 Like I think that's really interesting.
160. 00:08:57 I will follow sports just to follow sports.
161. 00:08:59 I could care less about basketball.
162. 00:09:01 Do not let that stop you from reading this book.
163. 00:09:04 Right.
164. 00:09:05 That's true.
165. 00:09:06 That's true.
166. 00:09:07 That's true.
167. 00:09:08 I don't really care if Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball player ever.
168. 00:09:11 He was the one of my generation.
169. 00:09:13 So I think he was awesome.
170. 00:09:14 But I don't know.
171. 00:09:15 Like I don't know stats.
172. 00:09:16 I don't know like how they measure these things.
173. 00:09:18 All I can tell you is really good.
174. 00:09:20 And don't let don't let the fact that because traveling was a basketball coach and because
175. 00:09:24 he's so integrated into the basketball world, don't let that pull away from what potentially
176. 00:09:29 you could get out of this book.
177. 00:09:30 There's a really there's some really good nuggets in there.
178. 00:09:33 So sorry, Mike.
179. 00:09:34 I'll go back.
180. 00:09:35 Jordan really is just interesting because it's Michael Jordan who signed his name to
181. 00:09:39 it.
182. 00:09:40 A couple anecdotes there that were I guess interesting, but like nothing really of substance
183. 00:09:46 that doesn't get extrapolated on later.
184. 00:09:50 Michael shares that George was kind of the bridge between coach Bobby Knight for the 1984
185. 00:09:55 USA gold medal winning basketball team and all of the players who really couldn't stand
186. 00:10:00 him.
187. 00:10:01 Sounds like.
188. 00:10:03 So he's sort of a people person and then also mentions that George is the person who convinced
189. 00:10:08 him to listen to the pitch from Nike.
190. 00:10:10 That's actually one of the chapters I want to talk about later.
191. 00:10:12 So we won't get too much into that.
192. 00:10:14 But there is an alternate universe where the whole Air Jordan thing does not happen.
193. 00:10:19 Yeah.
194. 00:10:20 And he was traveling was directly responsible for that.
195. 00:10:22 Not because, hey, come sign for my company.
196. 00:10:24 But yeah, for reasons you'll find out about as we discuss the book.
197. 00:10:26 Yeah.
198. 00:10:27 And it was like, it was Michael wanted to do like a deed is really bad or something.
199. 00:10:30 Wasn't it?
200. 00:10:31 Yeah, which is crazy.
201. 00:10:32 So super cool story is I mean, it's almost like rambling was in at least in the background,
202. 00:10:39 if not in the foreground of some really, really major things happening in the in the basketball
203. 00:10:46 college and pro and sports marketing world, which is just sports either.
204. 00:10:50 Yeah.
205. 00:10:51 That's true.
206. 00:10:52 Yeah, that's true.
207. 00:10:53 Yeah.
208. 00:10:54 Yeah, there's there's some stuff we'll share about in a little bit, but yeah, that's the
209. 00:10:57 forward.
210. 00:10:58 I don't know.
211. 00:10:59 Anything else you want to say about that for your tea introduction?
212. 00:11:00 No, that's great.
213. 00:11:01 Okay.
214. 00:11:02 So the introduction is next and this he talks about a little bit about his personal situation,
215. 00:11:11 basically.
216. 00:11:12 So he was born in 1937.
217. 00:11:14 The life expectancy for black males at the time was 48 years old, his dad passed away
218. 00:11:21 when he was nine of a heart attack.
219. 00:11:24 And he considers himself an educator, not a basketball coach, which is an important distinction.
220. 00:11:29 This book is an exploration of purpose and meaning.
221. 00:11:32 It's not supposed to be like, this is exactly how you do it.
222. 00:11:35 But the big thing that I think is worth taking away, even from the introduction, even before
223. 00:11:39 we get into the content of the book itself is that you have to be willing to dream big.
224. 00:11:43 We've got a whole week devoted to that in the life theme cohort, but he's got a different
225. 00:11:49 flavor of that.
226. 00:11:50 And it was cool to hear him talk about that.
227. 00:11:52 And encourages us to truly listen because truly listening can unlock doors.
228. 00:11:56 You never knew existed.
229. 00:11:58 All great stuff, great setup for the rest of the book, in my opinion.
230. 00:12:02 Yeah, I think one of the things that caught me so off guard is he's not, he's not a braggard.
231. 00:12:09 Right?
232. 00:12:10 I mean, he's been part of all this other stuff and he's just seemed so level and so humble.
233. 00:12:15 And, you know, like, I mean, he'll tell you a story that's like, my goodness, that is
234. 00:12:18 a wild story.
235. 00:12:19 Like, I cannot believe you were part of that.
236. 00:12:22 But like, it's the thing to teach you the thing he wants to teach you, right?
237. 00:12:25 So this idea of the fact that he's an educator, it read it in my direction, George Raveling,
238. 00:12:30 educator.
239. 00:12:31 Like, that's what he had known as, um, his like placard outside of his office.
240. 00:12:35 And I'm like, man, this guy's like, he's legitimate.
241. 00:12:38 Like, this is the way he thinks about it.
242. 00:12:40 Like, do you remember, I think he's 87, 83, 87 at the time of writing, I have to look
243. 00:12:46 up if he is still with us or if he's passed on.
244. 00:12:50 I want to say, I heard that he died recently, but I don't know that for sure.
245. 00:12:55 Okay.
246. 00:12:56 Regardless, he was getting up there and that's why they wrote the book is like, we got to
247. 00:12:59 capture this.
248. 00:13:00 So we have something because so much good stuff in here.
249. 00:13:03 Yep.
250. 00:13:04 All right.
251. 00:13:05 I'm ready to move on.
252. 00:13:06 Okay.
253. 00:13:07 So the first official chapter is one that I wanted to cover and that is to be a trailblazer.
254. 00:13:16 And this is where he shares a little bit about his experience growing up.
255. 00:13:21 He, I mean, we shared a little bit from the introduction in terms of like context where
256. 00:13:26 he came from, but basically his ticket out was that he was pretty good at basketball.
257. 00:13:34 So that's what he did.
258. 00:13:37 He played basketball.
259. 00:13:38 He got a college scholarship.
260. 00:13:41 His grandma who was raising him at the time was like, don't trust them because doesn't
261. 00:13:45 seem like you should be able to go to college for free just for playing a game.
262. 00:13:49 But that's what he did.
263. 00:13:51 When he got there, he realized that there are a lot of people who are really good.
264. 00:13:55 I can't rely on my talent anymore.
265. 00:13:58 I need to become really great at something.
266. 00:14:02 So he looked around and he saw people on the team who were really great at shooting, really
267. 00:14:07 great at dribbling, really great at defense, whatever he, but he noticed no one was really
268. 00:14:11 working on rebounding.
269. 00:14:13 So he's like, I'm going to become the best rebounder on the team.
270. 00:14:16 So it's making up all these crazy drills.
271. 00:14:18 People are like, who taught you that drill?
272. 00:14:20 And he's like, I just made it up.
273. 00:14:22 Yep.
274. 00:14:23 I think it's really interesting.
275. 00:14:24 And the takeaway from this chapter is to find your unique path, your special contribution,
276. 00:14:29 give it your all.
277. 00:14:31 And he kind of frames it through this lens of the well trodden paths have already been
278. 00:14:36 carved out by other people.
279. 00:14:37 And I thought that was, that was great.
280. 00:14:40 This is interesting too because it's also right at the intersection of like the follow
281. 00:14:45 your passions sort of thing, that's not what he says, but I can see how it gets twisted
282. 00:14:49 that way a little bit.
283. 00:14:50 So I don't know.
284. 00:14:52 This is kind of interesting to me because I agree with what he's saying here, but I can
285. 00:14:56 also see how like, well, just do the thing that you're really good at.
286. 00:14:59 Like that's not what he's, what he's saying here.
287. 00:15:03 He says in life, it doesn't matter why you get an opportunity, only what you do with it.
288. 00:15:06 So I think that's the clarification there is you got to recognize where those opportunities
289. 00:15:10 are, recognize that the universe doesn't really owe you anything.
290. 00:15:13 In fact, he'll talk later about how you should be asking what you can give back, what you
291. 00:15:17 owe the world, that sort of thing kind of Victor Franklish.
292. 00:15:22 But yeah, keep moving, keep exploring and don't be afraid to carve your own path.
293. 00:15:26 Yeah, I think one of the things I see out of this is clearly a trailblazer.
294. 00:15:30 You talked about the rebounding right where it's that idea of like, okay, basketball is
295. 00:15:34 going to be my thing.
296. 00:15:35 And then I'm going to find the way to trailblaze within basketball.
297. 00:15:38 Oh, rebounding is the way to do that or is a way to do that.
298. 00:15:41 And I'm going to, I'm going to go hard on that.
299. 00:15:43 The other piece that was cool out of this is other people's impact in your trailblazing,
300. 00:15:49 right?
301. 00:15:50 Like, so there was a nun at the, the school that he went to in high school who would work
302. 00:15:55 with him on basketball and she's like, George, you should be playing basketball.
303. 00:15:59 You need to be playing more basketball.
304. 00:16:00 I will take you to the gym and we can play basketball all the time.
305. 00:16:03 You know, like in, in like that idea of somebody else pouring into all of these, not all of
306. 00:16:10 them, but like a lot of trailblazers is like, okay.
307. 00:16:13 There are other people that are involved in this.
308. 00:16:15 He had a unique talent, but it, it also took some activation by some others, right?
309. 00:16:20 And if we look at this from both a, you know, me being a trailblazer, like me personally
310. 00:16:25 being a trailblazer versus me enabling somebody else to be a trailblazer and like identifying
311. 00:16:30 their skill, their opportunity and encouraging and pushing and encouraging and pushing.
312. 00:16:35 It's just a really, like it's a, it's a really cool story about his early life and how it
313. 00:16:41 kind of encourages us to, to, you know, do that less trodden path and move forward.
314. 00:16:46 So I thought that was a good way to start the book.
315. 00:16:48 Yeah.
316. 00:16:49 And that is a common theme throughout a lot of the chapters is that you're not a self-made
317. 00:16:55 person.
318. 00:16:56 There've been a lot of people who have helped you.
319. 00:16:58 Yeah.
320. 00:16:59 For sure.
321. 00:17:00 Okay.
322. 00:17:01 Mine's next.
323. 00:17:02 If you're ready.
324. 00:17:03 Yep.
325. 00:17:04 All right.
326. 00:17:05 So then the next one we're going to talk about is called to listen and to learn.
327. 00:17:08 And he talks about his, his grandma encouraging him.
328. 00:17:13 And I can't remember.
329. 00:17:14 What did he, what was her nickname?
330. 00:17:16 Mike, do you remember off top your head?
331. 00:17:19 Was it deer?
332. 00:17:20 Yeah.
333. 00:17:21 Deer.
334. 00:17:22 Great.
335. 00:17:23 Yeah.
336. 00:17:24 Deer.
337. 00:17:25 I think, and any else.
338. 00:17:26 So very endearing, like kind of a thing where he talks about his grandma, but I was taught
339. 00:17:29 that listening is an active and not a passive act.
340. 00:17:32 And she would basically quiz him.
341. 00:17:33 So he would come out of these different conversations.
342. 00:17:35 So he would sit there and listen to his grandma and the other ladies talk.
343. 00:17:39 And then she would quiz him afterwards and about how valuable it was to actively listen
344. 00:17:45 into a situation.
345. 00:17:46 I think one of the things I like about this is we are so, and I, like I'll say this personally,
346. 00:17:53 right?
347. 00:17:54 Like we are so prone to talk and want to get our opinion in there and want to be a voice
348. 00:17:58 inside of whatever's happening.
349. 00:18:00 And just the value of actively listening, taking that time to think to process, to stew,
350. 00:18:07 and how much value that can, that can have.
351. 00:18:09 And then if we extend this out to, you talked about like echo chambers at one point in,
352. 00:18:15 in this chapter where, especially online, we get into these, these echo chambers and
353. 00:18:21 we aren't often listening to the story that's being told.
354. 00:18:24 And I think sometimes if we listen to the story, it's being told, we'd be like, man,
355. 00:18:27 this is crazy.
356. 00:18:28 Like what?
357. 00:18:29 Like, why is anybody in this?
358. 00:18:30 These people are, are, are crazy.
359. 00:18:32 And I think we need to be more aware of that.
360. 00:18:34 And how do we listen better?
361. 00:18:36 How do we make sure that, you know, what we're saying is appropriate and timely and, and
362. 00:18:44 in those, in those right places.
363. 00:18:46 Last one, he states as he ends the chapter out is we need to remember that wisdom often
364. 00:18:50 comes in whispers, not shouts.
365. 00:18:51 And I think that's just a really, really good line to kind of wrap that up.
366. 00:18:56 So listening and learning.
367. 00:18:57 Yeah, he's got a statistic, says it, he seeks to listen 80% of the time and talk 20% of
368. 00:19:03 the time, which I think is a good, good ratio there.
369. 00:19:06 Yeah.
370. 00:19:07 He also tells a story in this chapter about getting hired by Wilt Chamberlain to be his
371. 00:19:12 shoulders driving around to speak at all these basketball camps, which is pretty cool.
372. 00:19:17 And it fits with this to listen and to learn because he said on those, those drives, will
373. 00:19:21 to ask him these questions and they end up talking about basketball strategy and things
374. 00:19:27 like that.
375. 00:19:28 So that's pretty cool, like to be a fly on the wall and hear some of those conversations,
376. 00:19:32 how much you could learn from stuff like that, that's, that's pretty cool.
377. 00:19:36 From that he mentions that champions have a different way of thinking about what's possible
378. 00:19:41 and what they expect.
379. 00:19:43 And I feel like that's not only cool that he had that opportunity, but also there's a
380. 00:19:49 practical takeaway there for us, I think, you know, who are we surrounding ourselves?
381. 00:19:53 Who are we allowing to speak into our lives?
382. 00:19:56 You got to get around people who are going to encourage you to, to think bigger.
383. 00:20:00 And when you have people in your life who can help reinforce that belief, like it's crazy
384. 00:20:07 what, what you may end up doing as, as the rest of his life is, is evidence of.
385. 00:20:12 Well, in addition, like, if we are constantly in an environment where we're listening to
386. 00:20:16 garbage and we're listening to bad things, think about what that does to, you know, what
387. 00:20:21 we're, what we're kind of learning by osmosis or learning through that listening, we need
388. 00:20:25 to be around, you know, what's the saying, like, you're, you're the image or you're the
389. 00:20:30 resemblance of the five people you hang around with the most or whatever that is.
390. 00:20:33 Yep.
391. 00:20:34 Yeah, the average, right?
392. 00:20:35 And it's like, man, if we think about this combined with that idea, well, if I'm around
393. 00:20:39 the right people, you know, like they're going to, they're going to make me better and
394. 00:20:43 they're going to help me, you know, teach me how to be better.
395. 00:20:46 So that's, that's just cool.
396. 00:20:47 All right, let's talk about books.
397. 00:20:51 The next one I want to talk about is to seek out wisdom, actually books and masterminds.
398. 00:20:57 He hits on both of them.
399. 00:20:58 Yep.
400. 00:20:59 Yep.
401. 00:21:00 So he talks about how wisdom is a team sport.
402. 00:21:03 And he got introduced to the topic of a mastermind when he was 83 years old, which is sort of
403. 00:21:11 astounding to me.
404. 00:21:12 It's amazing.
405. 00:21:13 I love mastermind groups, and I love the idea of masterminds.
406. 00:21:17 And I know some people push back on the term mastermind and I don't really get why because
407. 00:21:24 I don't think it has to be this super exclusive thing.
408. 00:21:30 Masterminds, he defines as a group of like minded individuals coming together to share
409. 00:21:35 knowledge, challenge each other and accelerate their personal and professional growth.
410. 00:21:40 So yes, sign me up.
411. 00:21:42 That is where I want to be and the fact that he did this when he was 83, he's attending
412. 00:21:46 this mastermind dinner with these people who are half the age that he is.
413. 00:21:50 And so I think that there's probably a scenario like that where he's pretty intimidated to
414. 00:21:54 be in that, that room because these are super successful people and they're just moving
415. 00:21:59 faster than maybe when you're that age you feel like you can, you can keep up.
416. 00:22:04 But that's not him.
417. 00:22:05 He's like, no, I'm going to put myself in that uncomfortable situation because it's going
418. 00:22:08 to force me to grow.
419. 00:22:09 Like that's this guy in a nutshell.
420. 00:22:12 I know, I absolutely love it.
421. 00:22:17 You want everything you want to say about the masterminds before we get to the stuff about
422. 00:22:20 the bookstores?
423. 00:22:21 No, other than, I mean, the only thing I could think of is like, I am, I am Jones and to
424. 00:22:27 find the right mastermind group and get involved in it and it's like, I just need to figure
425. 00:22:31 out what it is.
426. 00:22:32 Like, I don't know exactly what it is.
427. 00:22:35 And then I think it's going to have to be one that I have, I have to create.
428. 00:22:38 Like, I don't think there's, there might be one out there.
429. 00:22:41 But it's like, I think it's going to be one I have to create and now I've got to figure
430. 00:22:44 out how to do that and put it together and do all that stuff.
431. 00:22:47 But thankfully our last book helped me figure out, you know, a way to do that, you know,
432. 00:22:52 structure, at least a loose structure to do that.
433. 00:22:54 Yeah.
434. 00:22:55 Those formative communities.
435. 00:22:56 That's right.
436. 00:22:57 Um, another thing he shares in this chapter, which of course we need to talk about this.
437. 00:23:01 He mentions he likes to visit bookstores.
438. 00:23:04 Do you remember how often he visits bookstores?
439. 00:23:06 Uh, I, I don't remember, but it was a lot.
440. 00:23:09 That's all I can tell you.
441. 00:23:11 Eight to 10 times per week.
442. 00:23:13 Yeah.
443. 00:23:14 He is in bookstores and he's got a quote, which I need to share books in this way are wonderful
444. 00:23:21 friends.
445. 00:23:22 They're always there.
446. 00:23:23 They speak wisdom, but offer their advice quietly.
447. 00:23:25 They have an unlimited capacity for listening.
448. 00:23:28 They offer so much and ask for essentially nothing in return, but they won't come to you.
449. 00:23:33 You have to go out and find them, open their pages and let their wisdom into your life.
450. 00:23:38 I mean, this guy, I want to sit down and just talk to him for like an hour.
451. 00:23:43 Yeah.
452. 00:23:44 He mentions that he has 2,500 books all over his house.
453. 00:23:49 Do you think you have more than that?
454. 00:23:50 I was thinking about that.
455. 00:23:51 I'm probably pretty close.
456. 00:23:53 Yeah.
457. 00:23:54 We were at like 1,800 when Toby stopped, uh, adding stuff to the, the tracker because
458. 00:23:58 it was just too much to keep up with.
459. 00:24:00 I've definitely gotten at least a couple hundred since then.
460. 00:24:03 I'm, yeah, I'm pretty close.
461. 00:24:05 And so number one, this is validation for me.
462. 00:24:08 Yes.
463. 00:24:09 We'll continue to stick books all over my house.
464. 00:24:10 I'm happy for you.
465. 00:24:11 I'm happy for you.
466. 00:24:12 I really liked, uh, the description of going to these bookstores and just being around
467. 00:24:17 the books.
468. 00:24:18 Like you don't have to go to a bookstore for that.
469. 00:24:19 You can also go to a library.
470. 00:24:21 I've actually been doing that recently, not to browse the, the collections, which I think
471. 00:24:26 is probably what he would be doing there, but there is something just about being around
472. 00:24:30 all the books.
473. 00:24:31 There's a library local to us that has these rooms that you can reserve for free and they've
474. 00:24:37 got these great big glassboards in them.
475. 00:24:39 So grab my markers, storming my backpack, a book, a two hour brainstorming session.
476. 00:24:46 You know, it's, it's great.
477. 00:24:47 I absolutely love it.
478. 00:24:49 And I do think that just being in that environment kind of changes the way that I think about
479. 00:24:54 things.
480. 00:24:55 I think about whatever I'm struggling with, uh, in that particular scenario, not like
481. 00:25:00 struggling, oh, this is a problem that's got to be solved, but just like trying to figure
482. 00:25:03 out what to do with this thing for work.
483. 00:25:05 I've been working on it in my basement office with no windows and I get stuck.
484. 00:25:11 You know, if I go to the library and just start sitting out at the whiteboard, um, natural
485. 00:25:17 light, difference, different, uh, environment, all those books around, like I think about
486. 00:25:21 the thing differently.
487. 00:25:22 I noticed that my thinking goes up a level when I, I change the environment like that.
488. 00:25:26 So do you think your kids have the same experience?
489. 00:25:29 Like if you took Toby or you took your, you know, whoever else like to the library, do
490. 00:25:34 you think they would get the same experience?
491. 00:25:35 Cause I have the exact same experience you do.
492. 00:25:37 Like I can remember sitting in libraries from a very young age and thinking like this is
493. 00:25:41 just cool.
494. 00:25:42 Like this just feels cool.
495. 00:25:43 Like I, I like the feel of all of this, uh, or bookstores or whatever.
496. 00:25:47 Do you think our, our kids have the same feeling?
497. 00:25:50 Um, well, my kids are probably not a representative sample, but yes, my kids do to answer your
498. 00:25:57 question directly because for a long time we're like, Hey, let's go do something fun
499. 00:26:02 as a family.
500. 00:26:03 Let's go to the library.
501. 00:26:04 Like we've been doing this for years and we max out the library card.
502. 00:26:08 Each one will come back with like 30 books.
503. 00:26:10 I mean, it's, it's not just books at this point.
504. 00:26:13 Uh, Joshua got the new Donkey Kong game for the Nintendo switch from the library.
505. 00:26:19 Like, uh, there's a, there's a slang definition for a library.
506. 00:26:24 And I forget what it is.
507. 00:26:25 Urban dictionary.com and I came across it one time and it was like a really cool place
508. 00:26:29 where you can get basically anything for free.
509. 00:26:31 Yeah.
510. 00:26:32 Yeah.
511. 00:26:33 That's like, yes.
512. 00:26:34 Yeah.
513. 00:26:35 Libraries are awesome.
514. 00:26:36 Um, but yeah, I think maybe they are a little bit of a undiscovered treasure for, uh, for
515. 00:26:41 a lot of people, but we've kind of, you know, if you take your kids to, to the environment,
516. 00:26:45 I think it does naturally happen to the point where we're doing all these, these college
517. 00:26:49 visits and stuff and one of the things that I noticed Toby, uh, kind of keys in on is like,
518. 00:26:55 how's their library?
519. 00:26:57 Well, well, you probably not going to spend a whole lot of time in that library anyways,
520. 00:27:03 but yes, you know, uh, this one is kind of junky and those, it leaves a bad taste in
521. 00:27:09 your mouth.
522. 00:27:10 Like they're, they're changing too.
523. 00:27:11 So we don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but they're changing in terms
524. 00:27:14 of like storing books and an offsite warehouse and then having like a shuttle system to get
525. 00:27:19 those books here because physical space on a university campus or a high school campus
526. 00:27:24 is so valuable that like those being used as a, as different spaces, not housing a
527. 00:27:30 bunch of books and I can remember at Penn State, I mean, goodness gracious, you get lost in
528. 00:27:33 the library.
529. 00:27:34 Like you, I mean, you could go down there and nobody knows where you went for three days
530. 00:27:37 and so where is he at?
531. 00:27:38 Oh, he's in the bottom corner of the library.
532. 00:27:39 It's like, Oh geez, you know, okay, we should move.
533. 00:27:43 All right.
534. 00:27:44 Next one.
535. 00:27:45 Uh, yes.
536. 00:27:46 So the next one is mine and it's to keep hope alive.
537. 00:27:50 This one is a very powerful one that is actually significantly less about basketball.
538. 00:27:57 And it's basically, he finds himself.
539. 00:28:01 So and I'm going to let Mike fill in a bunch of details about this because I know Mike's
540. 00:28:04 excited about it.
541. 00:28:05 He finds himself as a security guard in Washington, D.C. when Martin Luther King, Jr. is going
542. 00:28:13 to give his, I have a dream speech.
543. 00:28:16 And then I'll let Mike tell the exciting part of, of that story.
544. 00:28:19 Okay.
545. 00:28:20 So really the whole context for this is important to the story because this is kind of how he
546. 00:28:24 tells his stories.
547. 00:28:25 Like, yeah, this is the thing that happened, but there's an element of humility here where
548. 00:28:29 like this is just who he is.
549. 00:28:30 So he wasn't like, I got to be there, there's this historic event that's going on.
550. 00:28:35 He was not planning on going to the march.
551. 00:28:38 Okay.
552. 00:28:39 But he was with a friend and he named the friend Warren Wilson.
553. 00:28:44 And his dad basically was like, are you guys going to the, to the, the march?
554. 00:28:49 And they're like, Oh, well, no, we don't have any money for a hotel room.
555. 00:28:52 We don't have a car to get there, like they're coming with the excuses.
556. 00:28:56 And he's, he says, just take the car, I'll give you some money, but just go.
557. 00:29:01 Okay.
558. 00:29:02 So they go and they get there at the day before and they're walking around on the grounds
559. 00:29:08 and some big wig in charge finds them and is, and says basically, what are you doing
560. 00:29:14 here?
561. 00:29:15 Oh, we're here for the thing tomorrow.
562. 00:29:16 Oh, well, you're both big.
563. 00:29:18 They were like six foot four.
564. 00:29:19 Like you want to be on the security detail?
565. 00:29:20 Yeah.
566. 00:29:21 Yep.
567. 00:29:22 Okay.
568. 00:29:23 Sure.
569. 00:29:24 So they have no real briefing, no training on this is what happens if this goes down,
570. 00:29:31 but he ends up being right by the stage.
571. 00:29:35 So he recounts the whole interaction where Martin Luther King, Jr. is up there.
572. 00:29:40 And then somebody in the audience, I want to say, Mahalia Jackson yells out, tell them
573. 00:29:48 about the dream, Martin, and then he goes into the thing that he's, he's got prepared.
574. 00:29:55 You know, I have a dream, the speech that everybody knows.
575. 00:29:58 And as he's walking off the stage, he walks right by George Raveling.
576. 00:30:04 And in that moment, George somehow has the, the, uh, wherewithal to ask Martin Luther
577. 00:30:11 King before anybody else is there, can I have your notes from that speech?
578. 00:30:16 So he gives him the piece of paper, immediately he's swamped by all the big wigs and doesn't
579. 00:30:20 see him again, but he has the, the, the original copy of, I have a dream speech.
580. 00:30:27 Yeah.
581. 00:30:28 That's, and it's just a series of fortunate events, I guess, that he was in that place
582. 00:30:35 at that time very easily could have not been there and how would have it, how would his
583. 00:30:40 life have looked different after that?
584. 00:30:42 But so crazy and such a cool, such a cool story.
585. 00:30:46 And I think one of the coolest parts of it too is what he does with it when he's older,
586. 00:30:51 where he's got the speech, he's got the speech and he could, he could auction it off and make
587. 00:30:56 probably millions of dollars, right, from, from that.
588. 00:30:59 And I forget where he donated it to, but he gave it to a library.
589. 00:31:03 He gave it to them.
590. 00:31:04 Yeah.
591. 00:31:05 It's like a university or something.
592. 00:31:06 Yeah.
593. 00:31:07 So they've got the, they've got the original version of it and they can bring it out, add
594. 00:31:11 their collections, whatever, at one point, Charles Barkley is like, I'm going to beat
595. 00:31:13 up George and take the copy of that.
596. 00:31:16 Exactly.
597. 00:31:17 But he never does.
598. 00:31:18 Yeah.
599. 00:31:19 That's awesome.
600. 00:31:20 Now, and, and I think then he, he ends the chapter or he kind of, he, he gives you the
601. 00:31:25 motivator of the chapter is basically like, Hey, every day you've got 86,400 seconds.
602. 00:31:30 And how are you going to use those 86,400 seconds to keep up alive, to push somebody,
603. 00:31:36 to encourage somebody?
604. 00:31:37 And like his examples are so simple.
605. 00:31:40 They thank you, share a smile, pat somebody on the back, right?
606. 00:31:43 Like they're not like, go save the world, go, you know, world peace, go, you know, make
607. 00:31:49 a bajillion dollars.
608. 00:31:50 It's like, just be, just be a nice person and just do good things for other people.
609. 00:31:54 I don't know.
610. 00:31:55 Like, he, he wins my heart in like a thousand different ways in this book.
611. 00:31:59 And that's just one of them.
612. 00:32:02 I agree.
613. 00:32:03 It's a incredible chapter.
614. 00:32:06 And really the main point is that everybody's a work in progress.
615. 00:32:09 The world needs people who are going to keep up alive.
616. 00:32:11 And that's really the content of Martin Luther King Jr's speech and just the story that he's
617. 00:32:16 able to tell the personal story to anchor to this idea just so incredible is it really
618. 00:32:24 is.
619. 00:32:25 All right.
620. 00:32:26 So now we're going to go back a little bit because this isn't actually an order but to
621. 00:32:30 go back and forth in terms of picking things.
622. 00:32:33 I have to talk about the chapter on to study books.
623. 00:32:39 All right.
624. 00:32:40 We did the one on, on getting wisdom, right?
625. 00:32:42 But there's another one on to study books specifically.
626. 00:32:46 So this is where he talks about exploring the library, wandering the aisles.
627. 00:32:51 And I know what that's like.
628. 00:32:52 I just mentioned I've been going to the library a lot lately but how it started before I was
629. 00:32:56 buying any of the books on the bookshelf behind me because I couldn't afford them is
630. 00:33:00 I was just going to the library looking in the business self help section finding the
631. 00:33:05 ones that looked interesting and checking them out and reading them like steal like an artist
632. 00:33:09 like Austin Cleon.
633. 00:33:10 You have talked about how influential that book was that was a library book.
634. 00:33:14 All that kind of stuff.
635. 00:33:15 So I get what he's talking about here.
636. 00:33:20 And then he uses that as like the foundation for all the arguments that he makes in this
637. 00:33:23 chapter about how each book you read expands your world.
638. 00:33:28 And this is where he gets into kind of his method for reading books, which I fascinating.
639. 00:33:32 He says, if a book doesn't connect, drop it and say, this book doesn't want me right
640. 00:33:35 now.
641. 00:33:36 Maybe it will later.
642. 00:33:37 I love that.
643. 00:33:38 And then he's got his whole system for studying books and he actually gets pretty specific
644. 00:33:42 about this.
645. 00:33:43 So he's got a version of the Mortimer Adler, how to read a book thing.
646. 00:33:49 And I've got a YouTube video, which I will put the link in the show notes about my digital
647. 00:33:55 adaptation to Mortimer Adler's thing from the 1940s or whenever he wrote that.
648. 00:34:02 But George's system for studying books is to circle anything that he wants to research
649. 00:34:08 later to draw horizontal lines next to important paragraphs to use different color highlighters
650. 00:34:13 for quotes, concepts, et cetera.
651. 00:34:16 That's basically what I do with my emoji coding system.
652. 00:34:19 Fill empty pages with summaries, notes, reflections, et cetera.
653. 00:34:23 I guess I just capture the things that resonate and have my own opinion notes.
654. 00:34:27 And then after finishing, he transfers those important insights into learning journals.
655. 00:34:31 I would love to see what those learning journals look like, but that's basically my obsidian
656. 00:34:35 vault.
657. 00:34:36 Yeah.
658. 00:34:37 Which by the way, I should mention, I've got a free version of the collection of the book
659. 00:34:42 notes that I've taken as like 200 books in it.
660. 00:34:44 So I'll put the link to that in the show notes as well if people want to download those book
661. 00:34:48 notes and see what it looks like, but the thing I would encourage people who are listening
662. 00:34:53 here to do is to figure out how you can get more out of these books that you read.
663. 00:34:59 Don't read a book because I want to master a topic.
664. 00:35:03 Don't read a book because I'm going to apply everything that this person talks about to
665. 00:35:08 my life.
666. 00:35:09 Grab a book because you think it's interesting or you're excited to read it because you think
667. 00:35:13 it's going to solve a problem that you're facing and then look for what resonates and
668. 00:35:20 spit out the sticks.
669. 00:35:21 He mentions in this chapter something that I think is very profound.
670. 00:35:25 Books teach you how to think, not what to think, but they only do that if you approach
671. 00:35:31 them the right way as having a discussion with the author and trying to figure out what
672. 00:35:35 are the things that I can glean from this and apply to my own life, not well, this person's
673. 00:35:40 successful.
674. 00:35:41 Do this, this, this, this, this, add those things to my action items list and my task
675. 00:35:45 list and nominee focus because you're just going to get overwhelmed that way.
676. 00:35:49 You made the point that was the key point I wanted to make here is that how to think,
677. 00:35:53 not what to think.
678. 00:35:55 He contrasts it with the educational system that the educational system wants to teach
679. 00:36:00 you what to think, not as much how to think and the fact that he calls it books or the
680. 00:36:06 path to liberation, the ability to lifelong learning and continue to grow and to really
681. 00:36:13 that, that how to think thing and it's like, man, what a, what a powerful concept, what
682. 00:36:18 a powerful idea just to show everybody or to kind of bring this home about how important
683. 00:36:24 he thinks it is.
684. 00:36:25 I came to see reading as a moral duty to not read, to remain ignorant was not only to be
685. 00:36:31 weak, it was to ignore the people who had fought so hard, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
686. 00:36:34 I mean, like he really, really, really, and then I think Mike, doesn't he talk about
687. 00:36:39 the fact that he's always carrying around a book, like that he's always got a book in
688. 00:36:42 his hand?
689. 00:36:43 Yes.
690. 00:36:44 Yeah.
691. 00:36:45 Me too.
692. 00:36:46 That's how I got into reading.
693. 00:36:47 I carried a physical book everywhere.
694. 00:36:48 You don't learn to read more by carrying a Kindle.
695. 00:36:49 Yeah.
696. 00:36:50 Sorry.
697. 00:36:51 Yeah.
698. 00:36:52 You're going to read more by carrying a book and this is, this is the one area.
699. 00:36:56 So you all know this by now.
700. 00:36:57 If you're new to the show, you may not know this, but like Mike and I have this, I read
701. 00:37:02 digitally, he reads physically, like we have this divide here, but this is an area where
702. 00:37:06 I completely agree with him.
703. 00:37:07 Like when it comes down to carrying the physical book, I think that is incredibly valuable,
704. 00:37:14 incredibly valuable.
705. 00:37:15 And then taking notes in the margins too.
706. 00:37:16 Like I think actually handwriting the notes in the margins is incredibly valuable as well.
707. 00:37:20 Like those are weaknesses that I guarantee that I'm missing out on something with, but
708. 00:37:25 I take that as a hit and as a loss.
709. 00:37:27 And let me just, let me just clarify, because my thinking on this is evolving a little bit.
710. 00:37:31 I still don't, I still don't love audio books, but I also think that if you're going to listen
711. 00:37:39 to audio books as a supplementary way of reading books, totally fine.
712. 00:37:44 If you are choosing to use a Kindle and take it on the plane with you because you don't
713. 00:37:50 want to carry the big heavy books and you're reading off of that instead, totally fine.
714. 00:37:55 But I really just encourage people to do is consider the basics first, right?
715. 00:38:02 If this is a habit you are trying to get into, don't try to, oh, I haven't found the right
716. 00:38:08 tool yet or I haven't found the medium.
717. 00:38:10 The right medium has existed for hundreds of years.
718. 00:38:14 You pick up the book and you read it.
719. 00:38:16 And the more that you do that, the more you develop a taste for it.
720. 00:38:20 And once you have a taste for it, then it can, then you can try the other, the other
721. 00:38:24 format.
722. 00:38:25 I don't know.
723. 00:38:26 I don't think I would, I don't think I would say at this point I don't consider audio books
724. 00:38:29 to be reading.
725. 00:38:30 If that's the only form of reading you, you do, I would argue you're not really reading.
726. 00:38:34 But if you're doing that in conjunction with picking up the books and reading them or reading
727. 00:38:39 them on the Kindle, that's fine.
728. 00:38:41 We can still be friends.
729. 00:38:43 And I would agree with you completely.
730. 00:38:44 If you're trying to develop a reading habit, don't do it with your phone or a Kindle.
731. 00:38:49 Do it with a physical book that you carry around.
732. 00:38:52 Like I completely agree with you, could not agree with you more on that.
733. 00:38:55 No, like I knew you were going to love this chapter.
734. 00:38:57 I knew you were going to be like, yes, this is, I mean, everything from him telling you
735. 00:39:00 his, his method, you know, to basically saying, hey, if you don't do this, you're, you're
736. 00:39:06 a silly fool.
737. 00:39:07 And, and that's, and that's a problem.
738. 00:39:09 So don't be a silly fool.
739. 00:39:12 I knew you'd love this chapter.
740. 00:39:14 It's a good one.
741. 00:39:16 This episode of Bookworm is brought to you by the St. Louis Pen Show.
742. 00:39:19 If you love the feel of cursive writing with a fountain pen or documenting your thoughts
743. 00:39:23 and ideas through journaling, or even just doodling, the 2026 St. Louis Pen Show is the
744. 00:39:28 place for you.
745. 00:39:30 It's Thursday, June 25th through Sunday, June 28th and they're featuring special appearances
746. 00:39:34 by Brad Dowdy and Scott Jones and emphasizing the central location of meeting in the middle.
747. 00:39:40 There will be 102 vendors from across 25 states and Canada, including artists and pens
748. 00:39:45 and pencils, vintage pen dealers, nibmeisters, pen repairmen, ink, journals, paper, stationary
749. 00:39:50 clothing vendors, and much more.
750. 00:39:53 The Thursday is Trader Day.
751. 00:39:55 Friday is open to the public with an evening event, a vintage pen panel and pen tasting,
752. 00:40:00 followed by a free dessert party.
753. 00:40:02 Saturday and Sunday are also open to the public again with an evening pen show after dark
754. 00:40:06 on Saturday night.
755. 00:40:07 There are 26 classes over those three days, including calligraphy, bookbinding, stampmaking
756. 00:40:12 and card design, and there are lots of additional activities this year, including a silent auction,
757. 00:40:17 scavenger hunts for kids and adults, journal meetup corner, limited edition stamp and sticker
758. 00:40:21 collection booklets, and much more.
759. 00:40:24 There's so much to see and do this year at St. Louis Pen Show, so how do you get there?
760. 00:40:28 The St. Louis Pen Show is at the Sheraton Westport Lakeside Chelee on the beautiful Westport
761. 00:40:34 Plaza.
762. 00:40:35 There's plenty of free parking, loads of restaurants, and it's just 10 minutes from the airport.
763. 00:40:39 You can also get a special pen show room rate of $155, breakfast included.
764. 00:40:45 So check out the St. Louis Pen Show website at stlpenshow.com.
765. 00:40:49 You can buy your tickets at $10 per day admission, $20 for a weekend pass, or $30 for a trader
766. 00:40:55 pass for all show access.
767. 00:40:58 You can find vendor information, sign up to classes, and get your ticket now on the website
768. 00:41:02 by going to stlpenshow.com.
769. 00:41:05 Or thanks to St. Louis Pen Show for their support of the Bookworm Podcast.
770. 00:41:10 Am I up?
771. 00:41:11 Yep.
772. 00:41:12 All right.
773. 00:41:13 So my next one is called to tell the truth.
774. 00:41:16 And what I like here is he kind of shifts into this idea of leadership, and he shifts
775. 00:41:20 into this idea of the fact that you need to develop the ability to tell other people
776. 00:41:25 the truth and to tell them that compassionately because they will respect you more.
777. 00:41:33 It's more authentic.
778. 00:41:34 It's better for everybody involved if you are honest with other people, and if that
779. 00:41:40 honesty goes two ways in terms of what they're doing.
780. 00:41:43 So Mike and I in the pro show, we kind of showed a version of this, right?
781. 00:41:46 Mike throws his framework at me, and I'm telling him, this is what I truly think about this.
782. 00:41:52 Now, on any level, am I trying to hurt Mike?
783. 00:41:54 No.
784. 00:41:55 I don't want to hurt him.
785. 00:41:56 I don't want to make him feel bad about any of the stuff he's doing.
786. 00:41:58 But at the same time, if I have an opportunity to help him make something better, and I'm
787. 00:42:02 giving him my honest opinion, my honest feedback, and I'm doing it compassionately, that's wonderful.
788. 00:42:08 So he makes a statement here, the most caring thing you can do for someone is to tell them
789. 00:42:11 the truth, even when it's not the truth they want to hear.
790. 00:42:15 And I could not agree with that more.
791. 00:42:16 I think that's a very authentic and a very true statement that it's like, you may not
792. 00:42:22 like this, but here's my honest statement.
793. 00:42:26 He calls it a personal virtue.
794. 00:42:29 So this is actually a virtue that we should strive to is always being able to tell each
795. 00:42:35 other the truth in a compassionate way.
796. 00:42:38 And for sure, you can do this in the wrong way.
797. 00:42:40 I've got a son in my house right now who is very much on the truth side, but not on
798. 00:42:46 the compassion side.
799. 00:42:47 And I'm trying to teach him what you said is accurate.
800. 00:42:50 There's nothing wrong with what you said, but you said it with a sledgehammer, and you
801. 00:42:54 can't say it with a sledgehammer, but it just makes people feel bad, and they'll receive
802. 00:42:58 it completely differently if you soften that stuff and that up a little bit.
803. 00:43:02 So I got to understand radical candor and not to be an obnoxious jerk.
804. 00:43:06 Exactly.
805. 00:43:07 And at a young age, like that makes sense.
806. 00:43:09 But like, I think we've all experienced this person in our life growing up who never grew
807. 00:43:14 out of that, that, you know, like the ability to tell you what they were thinking, but not
808. 00:43:20 do it in the way that you go, man, that was horrible.
809. 00:43:24 Like I can't believe that that person did it.
810. 00:43:25 And that's what I try to, I try to teach my students that a lot.
811. 00:43:27 So that's my, like I thought this chapter, again, as I've said a bunch of times, I just
812. 00:43:32 think he does a really good job presenting truths for lack of a better way to put it,
813. 00:43:39 but presenting these words of wisdom in a very, very tangible and applicable way.
814. 00:43:44 Yeah, I think this is the chapter where he tells the story about how he needed to tell
815. 00:43:50 Charles Barkley that he was not going to make the US basketball team.
816. 00:43:56 Yep, you're absolutely right.
817. 00:43:57 And he was far and away, one of the more talented players that was there.
818. 00:44:03 And George wasn't the head coach of that team.
819. 00:44:06 He was an assistant coach.
820. 00:44:07 I forget if it was Bobby Knight who told him that you have to go tell Charles this thing.
821. 00:44:13 And so there's a lot of nuance in that story, which backs up the points that you were making
822. 00:44:18 there where Charles kind of had this reputation being aggressive, emotional.
823. 00:44:25 And so George was, I'm not, I don't want to say scared, but he was a little bit worried
824. 00:44:31 about the way that Charles was going to, to receive this.
825. 00:44:37 And I didn't write down the specifics here, but I do remember reading that story and Charles
826. 00:44:41 basically saying like, thank you for telling me the, the truth and recognizing that he had
827. 00:44:48 room to grow as a person and as a player based on the way that George did it.
828. 00:44:54 And I feel like that's the big lesson to be learned here.
829. 00:44:58 It kind of ties to some other stuff that he talks about later too, because you can tell
830. 00:45:02 the truth and just not care about the, the person.
831. 00:45:05 It's not exactly the way that you were describing it, but it's also one of the ways that that
832. 00:45:10 can manifest.
833. 00:45:13 If you don't care about the person, you really don't care about how it lands.
834. 00:45:16 You don't care if you come off as a jerk, but you can still care about the person and say
835. 00:45:20 stuff the, the wrong way.
836. 00:45:22 I don't know.
837. 00:45:23 It's like what's very clear in all the stories that he shares, but especially the one in
838. 00:45:28 this chapter is that he's so concerned about what this is going to do to the other person,
839. 00:45:34 how it's going to help or hurt them and what he can do to set them up for success.
840. 00:45:41 You know, that is kind of brilliant in, I mean, the whole book is brilliant.
841. 00:45:47 And I'm trying to, trying to figure out the way to, to explain this, but there's so much
842. 00:45:52 that's gleaned from the way he says things, not even the specifics of what he says, but
843. 00:45:58 just the way that he communicates it, you're like, oh, I get it now.
844. 00:46:02 Like, so you talk about, um, how to think not what to think.
845. 00:46:07 And he demonstrates that in the writing of this book, right?
846. 00:46:09 Like, like the way he words things, I would have never been able to get here until, until
847. 00:46:13 you said that the way he words thing, it's like, oh, that's how he thinks about that.
848. 00:46:18 Like he thinks about it differently.
849. 00:46:19 Like, it was, uh, it's really good.
850. 00:46:22 That's a really good point.
851. 00:46:23 Right.
852. 00:46:24 Cool.
853. 00:46:25 Um, I added one in here.
854. 00:46:26 If you're cool, because of a, you've got a little bit more time than I thought we would.
855. 00:46:31 That's great.
856. 00:46:32 Um, okay.
857. 00:46:33 So I wanted to talk about, to build your team, because this is one of the ones that I did
858. 00:46:37 take a bunch of notes on, but when I was trying to, to keep the outline a little bit short,
859. 00:46:42 I actually cut this one.
860. 00:46:44 So he's talking about building a team in terms of a coach.
861. 00:46:47 He obviously applies this to the family dynamic as well.
862. 00:46:51 But um, I think there's just so much of what we were just talking about that is evidenced
863. 00:46:58 in this particular chapter.
864. 00:47:01 So I don't know, I'll start, I guess with the quote that he shared with by Winston Churchill,
865. 00:47:06 which is kind of a funny quote.
866. 00:47:08 He says that my most brilliant achievement was my ability to be able to persuade my wife
867. 00:47:12 to marry me.
868. 00:47:13 And then he talks about how your family is your most important team.
869. 00:47:18 The most important ingredient in the marriage is forgiveness.
870. 00:47:21 So there's like some standard relationship advice stuff here, uh, talks about how it's
871. 00:47:27 easy to focus on what's wrong and let minor disagreements fester into major conflicts.
872. 00:47:33 But the thing that this chapter got me thinking about is, you know, I have no trouble thinking
873. 00:47:38 about building my family, and then he's obviously talking about building a sports team.
874. 00:47:44 And I don't have any action items from this book, frankly, but the way that this, uh, the
875. 00:47:53 mental thread that this is tugging on to my brain is what are the other teams that I
876. 00:47:59 can build?
877. 00:48:00 Yeah.
878. 00:48:01 You know, like there's a small group that I lead at my church and I'm absolutely inspired
879. 00:48:08 by reading this.
880. 00:48:09 Like, how can I show up better for, for those guys?
881. 00:48:12 We talked about the library and the formative community building.
882. 00:48:15 You know, I feel like that's an element of this.
883. 00:48:19 Any sort of friend group that you're a part of, I feel like it's natural to read this
884. 00:48:23 and be like, how do I be a better friend?
885. 00:48:26 How do I better serve those people?
886. 00:48:28 Even if that's not the purpose of the group, feel like it's impossible to read this and
887. 00:48:33 not be thinking that way at least.
888. 00:48:35 Yeah.
889. 00:48:36 I agree.
890. 00:48:37 Yeah.
891. 00:48:38 I mean, like I'm glad you added this chapter back in.
892. 00:48:40 I took a lot of this on this chapter two and what I like about this chapter is how much
893. 00:48:47 he doesn't talk about sports teams that like he could just talk about sports teams the
894. 00:48:53 entire chapter and talk about, you know, building a team in terms of him coaching him
895. 00:48:57 being on a team, like the Olympics and, you know, the team at Nike and all that stuff.
896. 00:49:02 But like he doesn't, it's mainly about like the general takeaways of, you know, forgiveness
897. 00:49:08 and the general takeaways of accepting the good and the bad and, you know, being in that
898. 00:49:12 relationship and being committed to that relationship.
899. 00:49:15 I mean, I just think like, I, again, I just think there's so much wisdom in what he says
900. 00:49:21 and how he says it and he presents it in such a relatable way.
901. 00:49:27 Yeah.
902. 00:49:28 I'm just really, really a big fan, as you all are listening and hearing us and like
903. 00:49:33 can I say, you know, like I'm just a really big fan of the way he approached this book
904. 00:49:38 and I'm really glad you had us read this one.
905. 00:49:40 Yeah.
906. 00:49:41 You mentioned, you know, when you commit to a relationship, you're accepting the best
907. 00:49:44 and worst parts of them.
908. 00:49:45 That's something that he calls out from this chapter.
909. 00:49:48 And if you just apply that in the marriage context, it maybe is a little bit straightforward.
910. 00:49:53 If you just apply that in a coaching context, maybe it's a little bit more of a stretch,
911. 00:49:57 but you can, it makes sense.
912. 00:49:59 But when you think about that, in terms of any of the groups that you're a part of, it's
913. 00:50:04 sort of transformational, I feel.
914. 00:50:07 Because like when we agree to do this podcast, right, I'm not just saying Corey can be the
915. 00:50:13 co-host because of all the positive traits that you bring to the show.
916. 00:50:17 I got to deal with all the other stuff too.
917. 00:50:19 And likewise, in fact, there's probably, it's probably unbalanced the other way.
918. 00:50:23 That's not, frankly, frankly, this week, you know, I, I texted you.
919. 00:50:27 The day before we were going to record because it was a week and I was like, I just am overwhelmed
920. 00:50:32 right now.
921. 00:50:33 I can do this.
922. 00:50:34 Can we pick another time?
923. 00:50:35 And it's the week before finals probably for you at school.
924. 00:50:38 So throwing a monkey wrench this week is not, you know, that's not easy to roll with the
925. 00:50:44 punches there for you either, I'm sure, but like, that's part of the deal.
926. 00:50:49 And when you recognize that for better or for worse, essentially, that's the agreement,
927. 00:50:56 whether there's a contractual obligation here or not is sort of irrelevant.
928. 00:51:00 It changes how you show up for people because it's no longer about like, well, I'm going
929. 00:51:03 to continue to put up with you as long as I like what you're doing for me.
930. 00:51:07 It's not about what I can get.
931. 00:51:09 It's about what I can give, how I can help, how we're better together that changes everything.
932. 00:51:15 Yeah.
933. 00:51:16 I completely agree.
934. 00:51:17 Like, like, when you think about it this way in any context, it's like, oh, okay, the
935. 00:51:21 two-person team, a four-person team, a six-person team, or whatever it is, and you go, everybody's
936. 00:51:26 going to have good and bad.
937. 00:51:28 Let's go.
938. 00:51:29 Like here we go.
939. 00:51:30 And it just changes the way you think about the entire relationship and it makes you more
940. 00:51:35 willing to talk about, communicate, accept, and work through those things that are inevitably
941. 00:51:43 going to come up.
942. 00:51:44 And I try to teach this to my students all the time.
943. 00:51:46 There is no perfect team.
944. 00:51:48 There is no like, there is no team where there's no bad and it's like, just get over that
945. 00:51:52 now and just be ready for it.
946. 00:51:54 And when it comes, talk about it, fix it, figure it out.
947. 00:51:57 Now things can get too bad and like, then you got to start to have those conversations.
948. 00:52:01 Those truth, those honest, compassionate conversations where you go, hey, listen, man, you got to
949. 00:52:05 stop doing this because you're killing me.
950. 00:52:07 Like, like every time you do this, you kill, but like, when you're, if you both come into
951. 00:52:13 it with that right mindset and Mike, you would come to me and you'd say, Corey, like, you
952. 00:52:17 really have to stop doing this thing because it's messing up the show this way or it's
953. 00:52:23 completely revamping my schedule and it's stressing me out.
954. 00:52:26 I'm going to go, oh, yeah, I can see how that would work, how that would do that to you.
955. 00:52:30 Let's figure out a way to fix that.
956. 00:52:31 Like, we should probably fix that, you know, like, it just changes the way you think about
957. 00:52:34 it.
958. 00:52:35 So I'm, I'm a big fan of the way he thinks about teams.
959. 00:52:38 Awesome.
960. 00:52:39 All right.
961. 00:52:40 Next one's yours.
962. 00:52:41 All right.
963. 00:52:42 Next one's mine to win the day.
964. 00:52:43 So to win the day is what it sounds like, I mean, this is not a new concept, especially
965. 00:52:48 for us in, in the bookworm world, but basically it's this idea of, you know, like, it's not,
966. 00:52:55 he calls it.
967. 00:52:56 This is the way he talks about it.
968. 00:52:57 It's not a single victory or a big moment.
969. 00:52:58 It's about showing up, doing the work, making those small daily choices that add up to something
970. 00:53:03 great over time.
971. 00:53:05 And I just think the more we can instill this into our brain and the more we can live a
972. 00:53:10 daily life where we do this, hey, sometimes I'm going to hit the home run, sometimes I'm
973. 00:53:16 just going to try to hit the ball, but like the goal is I wake up every day and I just
974. 00:53:19 try to hit the ball.
975. 00:53:20 I just try to hit the ball.
976. 00:53:21 I just try to hit the ball.
977. 00:53:22 And like this gets to time blocking, this gets into the weekly planning.
978. 00:53:27 This gets into those small steps, the intentional calls, the, the everything we do, right?
979. 00:53:33 Like, is, are we going towards what Mike would say vision and values, right?
980. 00:53:39 Do we have alignment in, in those things that are we, are we doing those things?
981. 00:53:42 And I can tell you personally, I don't have to have the greatest day ever where the most
982. 00:53:48 immaculate thing happened in the world and like, oh my gosh, I'm riding on cloud nine
983. 00:53:53 to feel like I've had a successful day, but I can tell you on the days when I wake up
984. 00:53:57 and I'm like, dang it, I just didn't do it right.
985. 00:53:59 Like I was distracted here.
986. 00:54:01 I wanted to get these three little things done and I only got one of them done because
987. 00:54:05 because I was distracted or lazy or, you know, I wasn't doing it, right?
988. 00:54:11 Like I didn't show up and win the day.
989. 00:54:12 Those are the days I get frustrated.
990. 00:54:14 It's not the days where I don't, I don't hit the home runner.
991. 00:54:16 I don't like, you know, makes immaculate progress on this project.
992. 00:54:20 And I think that's, you know, that's where, where he, he really wins me on this.
993. 00:54:25 He talks about a quote from Winifred Gallagher, which I had never heard of Winifred Gallagher
994. 00:54:29 before.
995. 00:54:30 But in, in their book wrapped your life.
996. 00:54:34 Love that book.
997. 00:54:35 Yeah.
998. 00:54:36 So I've never read it.
999. 00:54:37 So I didn't know anything about this, but your life, who you are, what you think, feel
1000. 00:54:40 and do, what you love is the sum of what you focus on.
1001. 00:54:43 And it's this idea, like Mike has in his framework, vision and values, right?
1002. 00:54:47 Like it's that vision and values.
1003. 00:54:48 What are you focused on?
1004. 00:54:50 Are you aligned?
1005. 00:54:51 And then that'll drive the rest of this.
1006. 00:54:53 And I just think it's a really good, really good takeaway from this chapter.
1007. 00:54:56 Yeah.
1008. 00:54:57 You mentioned that our focus shapes not just our experiences, but our identity and he talks
1009. 00:55:01 about the four areas of focus that he calls key pillars, I maybe would nitpick these a
1010. 00:55:05 little bit, but I think they're pretty solid energy management, time management, environmental
1011. 00:55:09 management, which is interesting and then productivity, I feel like productivity is kind
1012. 00:55:13 of all of those wrapped up.
1013. 00:55:17 But I think I know what he's, he's talking about with the productivity stuff.
1014. 00:55:21 The big idea here though, that challenged me is the be better today than you were yesterday.
1015. 00:55:28 You know, the 1% better, kind of like what you're talking about, but he says the true
1016. 00:55:32 test of greatness is finding ways to push yourself to keep growing and evolving.
1017. 00:55:37 So I've got this saying, probably mentioned it on this podcast, keep going and keep growing,
1018. 00:55:41 right?
1019. 00:55:42 That's sort of a personal mantra, but then he gave additional context to that when he talked
1020. 00:55:48 about Kobe Bryant and the Mamba mentality.
1021. 00:55:50 I'm not sure if you've heard that term before.
1022. 00:55:51 I have heard of it, but I had to be reminded as he described it.
1023. 00:55:56 Yeah, so Kobe's nickname when he was playing was the Black Mamba.
1024. 00:56:01 And so that was his thing, his Mamba mentality.
1025. 00:56:03 And basically what it meant was do whatever it takes to be great.
1026. 00:56:09 So get up early, do the workouts, all those kinds of things.
1027. 00:56:14 George shares in this chapter, he defines it as you have to work hard in the dark to
1028. 00:56:19 shine in the light, but that's oversimplifying it.
1029. 00:56:22 I feel like because I'm a basketball fan and I am familiar with Kobe Bryant, that that
1030. 00:56:29 gives me more context to this.
1031. 00:56:32 If you know who Kobe is, you can also see that this was not just a basketball thing.
1032. 00:56:39 Because again, what he shares, maybe you don't really grock it until you understand the way
1033. 00:56:46 that he shares it or you see the way that he shares it.
1034. 00:56:49 So he mentions, because Kobe, he retired and then a few years after he retired, he died
1035. 00:56:56 in that helicopter crash.
1036. 00:56:58 I forget how old he was when he died, but he was pretty young and he told George directly
1037. 00:57:06 at one point, the story shared in this chapter is that he said he was going to get better
1038. 00:57:12 at business than he was at basketball.
1039. 00:57:14 Yeah.
1040. 00:57:15 If you understand his approach to the game of basketball, you have no doubt that absolutely
1041. 00:57:20 he was going to do that.
1042. 00:57:22 And that's the thing that's inspiring to me.
1043. 00:57:24 I mean, coupled with the fact that he died in a freak helicopter crash, none of us are
1044. 00:57:29 guaranteed tomorrow.
1045. 00:57:30 What if it all ended?
1046. 00:57:31 You know, can you say you left it all all on the field?
1047. 00:57:36 That's what I want to be able to do.
1048. 00:57:38 So it's really easy to go into this chapter thinking, you know, I'm just really busy.
1049. 00:57:43 You've got all this stuff going on and then you walk out of this and you're like, I am
1050. 00:57:46 such a slacker.
1051. 00:57:47 I need to just get my act together.
1052. 00:57:50 Part of that is the focusing piece.
1053. 00:57:51 Why do the things that really aren't hitting the mark?
1054. 00:57:54 And when you read this chapter specifically, I feel like you get an understanding or maybe
1055. 00:58:00 a renewed understanding of the fact that I don't have time to waste.
1056. 00:58:05 I really got to focus on the things that matter.
1057. 00:58:08 All right, Mike, you're up next.
1058. 00:58:10 I am up next.
1059. 00:58:12 Let's see.
1060. 00:58:13 The one that I've got next is to be a good steward.
1061. 00:58:18 Ah, yes.
1062. 00:58:19 I love the term to be a good steward and we're skipping a whole bunch of great chapters,
1063. 00:58:23 by the way.
1064. 00:58:24 We are.
1065. 00:58:25 We really are.
1066. 00:58:26 Yeah, we really are.
1067. 00:58:27 But to be a good steward, this is where we get the story of Michael Jordan and signing
1068. 00:58:31 with Nike.
1069. 00:58:32 But I just need to back up a little bit on that term steward because kind of the thing
1070. 00:58:36 that got me into what I am doing today was me going through Bible college and then just
1071. 00:58:46 for funsies, I got a Bible college degree, not because I want to be a pastor or anything
1072. 00:58:49 like that.
1073. 00:58:50 I just enjoyed learning and my church had a satellite campus and I'm like, cool, let's
1074. 00:58:54 do this.
1075. 00:58:55 So I got the degree and then a couple of years after that, I was asked to teach the personal
1076. 00:59:00 management class and I'm studying for that and I'm just getting this revelation that
1077. 00:59:08 productivity matters to God.
1078. 00:59:12 And then the biblical term for it is stewardship.
1079. 00:59:14 Stewardship.
1080. 00:59:15 What are you doing with what you are entrusted with?
1081. 00:59:17 Okay.
1082. 00:59:18 So that's kind of the framing of to be a good steward.
1083. 00:59:23 Okay.
1084. 00:59:24 So that, oh, I guess to finish the story, you know, I got that revelation.
1085. 00:59:28 I started writing, I self published a book that led me to get connected with all the
1086. 00:59:31 people that I got connected with online and led ultimately to me doing the thing that
1087. 00:59:35 I am today, which is totally different than the family business stuff that I was doing
1088. 00:59:39 previously.
1089. 00:59:40 So it's not an overstatement to say my world was completely changed by this stewardship
1090. 00:59:46 idea.
1091. 00:59:47 Yeah.
1092. 00:59:48 Okay.
1093. 00:59:49 So now he, the story here is about convincing Michael Jordan to sign with Nike and that he
1094. 00:59:57 alludes to this story multiple times throughout the book, but this is where he gets into the
1095. 01:00:01 details.
1096. 01:00:02 And he kind of mentions that if you've seen this movie, I forget the name of the movie.
1097. 01:00:06 Is it air?
1098. 01:00:07 Which is like the story?
1099. 01:00:08 Yeah.
1100. 01:00:09 Okay.
1101. 01:00:10 Let's put a link to that in the show notes for people who want to check this out.
1102. 01:00:12 But he, he says that that movie kind of gets the details wrong.
1103. 01:00:15 Here's what actually happened.
1104. 01:00:16 Like that's how he frames this, this story.
1105. 01:00:20 So he's on the board at Nike or, you know, working there.
1106. 01:00:25 And so he's, he's not unbiased in this, but he is every time he's around Michael Jordan,
1107. 01:00:32 trying to convince him, just go listen to their pitch, Michael.
1108. 01:00:35 And Michael's like, I'm not going to do it.
1109. 01:00:36 I'm going to sign with Adidas.
1110. 01:00:38 So at one point, George says, you know, just come meet with the guy at this place at this
1111. 01:00:45 time.
1112. 01:00:46 And if you decide that this isn't for you, then I'll never bring it up again.
1113. 01:00:50 Yep.
1114. 01:00:51 Okay, I'm going to go just because I don't want to hear you bring this up ever again.
1115. 01:00:57 Right.
1116. 01:00:58 So he goes, they go to a Tony Roma's steakhouse or something.
1117. 01:01:03 And what they do in their presentation is they offer to have a signature shoe developed
1118. 01:01:10 for Michael, which was kind of revolutionary at the time.
1119. 01:01:13 So Michael's thinking, I'm going to sign up the Adidas.
1120. 01:01:15 They're going to give me some X amount of money.
1121. 01:01:18 He says, I'm going to, if I'm going to go there, I'm absolutely going to give Adidas
1122. 01:01:21 a chance to match this.
1123. 01:01:23 So they get the, you know, what Mikey's going to do for him.
1124. 01:01:26 He goes back to Adidas, gives him a chance to match, but they were all focused on a dollar
1125. 01:01:31 amount.
1126. 01:01:32 They were like a signature shoe.
1127. 01:01:34 We don't know.
1128. 01:01:36 We don't know how to do that.
1129. 01:01:37 So Michael signs with Nike, the first Air Jordans sell $126 million by the end of the
1130. 01:01:43 year and the rest as they say is history.
1131. 01:01:46 So I, I love this story because it's easy to leave out some of the details and be like,
1132. 01:01:54 well, George worked for Nike.
1133. 01:01:56 Of course, you know, he's trying to get Michael to be their client.
1134. 01:02:00 But in this chapter, he talks about the stewardship aspect of this and how he really felt an obligation
1135. 01:02:07 and you can take this at surface value and believe him or you can be like, no, obviously
1136. 01:02:11 he's, he's biased.
1137. 01:02:12 I choose to believe him based on everything else that he's shared in the so far, but he
1138. 01:02:16 mentions how stewardship goes beyond just serving others in the moment.
1139. 01:02:20 It's not about control.
1140. 01:02:21 It's not about taking credit.
1141. 01:02:22 He just really believed that this would set up Michael Jordan for success in a way that
1142. 01:02:29 he would not get if you signed with Adidas or Converse was the other one that was the
1143. 01:02:34 big one back in the day.
1144. 01:02:36 So he just wanted to make the introduction, you know, let the chips fall where they may
1145. 01:02:40 like my, it's Michael's decision.
1146. 01:02:42 He can do whatever he wants, but it was like he had this, this gut feel that this was the
1147. 01:02:49 right thing for, for Michael and ultimately it was obviously the right thing for Nike.
1148. 01:02:55 Yeah.
1149. 01:02:56 But that's why he pushed on it.
1150. 01:02:57 It's like, I just feel like this is supposed to happen.
1151. 01:02:59 And so that's inspiring to me because it's not about what he can get out of it.
1152. 01:03:04 But if I'm honest and I use that as a template, I can recognize those moments in my life where
1153. 01:03:10 it's like, I really think you're supposed to do this now, just with my kids, although
1154. 01:03:16 that's probably one place that this gets played out.
1155. 01:03:19 But do I have the guts to care enough about somebody else to be in their situation, to
1156. 01:03:23 see their situation be like, I really think you're supposed to do this and to push a little
1157. 01:03:28 bit harder maybe in that situation, not because of what I want to get out of it, but because
1158. 01:03:32 I want to see the potential in someone get realized.
1159. 01:03:38 That's, that's a big ask, a big, big challenge, but ultimately I feel like it's, it's inspiring
1160. 01:03:44 to me.
1161. 01:03:45 Yeah.
1162. 01:03:46 I'm challenged by this every, like every year, but especially as seniors start rolling out
1163. 01:03:50 of CCU, where it's like, you know, he defines it as the profound responsibility of being
1164. 01:03:57 entrusted with the care and development of another person's well being growth and potential.
1165. 01:04:01 And like, I mean, I think about that the entire time that students are in at CCU and in the
1166. 01:04:06 engineering program, but really, especially as they're starting to graduate, it's like,
1167. 01:04:10 how do I advise you well?
1168. 01:04:13 How do I, you know, like, okay, are you going to go take this job or you're going to go
1169. 01:04:17 take that job?
1170. 01:04:18 Are you going to go into ministry or you're going to go into this other, you know, this
1171. 01:04:21 engineering profession?
1172. 01:04:23 And it's like, the real answer is nobody knows, right?
1173. 01:04:26 Like, nobody knows what the best decision is for you and for the next two years, three
1174. 01:04:29 years, four years, five years.
1175. 01:04:31 Like, man, like the stewardship of the advising of this, of this individual, of the mentoring
1176. 01:04:37 of this individual, and it's fun, like it's, it's a great responsibility.
1177. 01:04:41 But at the same time, you know, it's a lot of fun.
1178. 01:04:44 So I really liked that he hit on this and basically was trying to let people know you
1179. 01:04:52 have this influence in people in your life, you know, like be a good steward of that.
1180. 01:04:57 Like don't just flippantly be like, ah, you should go to this other thing and not like
1181. 01:05:01 actually pay attention to it, actually advise them well.
1182. 01:05:04 And if you tie this into the other principles, tell the truth, listen well, like, you know,
1183. 01:05:08 like all of these things start to compound on each other and it just because really powerful
1184. 01:05:14 becomes really, really powerful.
1185. 01:05:16 100% agree.
1186. 01:05:17 You want to kick off the last chapter?
1187. 01:05:20 Yep.
1188. 01:05:21 Okay.
1189. 01:05:22 So as Mike said, we're going to roll into the last chapter here, but there are like so
1190. 01:05:26 many other good to whatever chapters, I mean, like, you know, like, ta-da-da-da-da-da chapters.
1191. 01:05:33 And we're going to hit the to live chapter, which is the very last chapter.
1192. 01:05:37 But basically, you know, as he gets older, he realizes that life's not about achievements
1193. 01:05:41 and accolades.
1194. 01:05:43 It's about the impact of others.
1195. 01:05:44 And we've seen this in quite a few different things.
1196. 01:05:48 The most relevant one would be how to live a meaningful life, which we just did, you know,
1197. 01:05:54 hosted last, last episode, but then there's the second mountain, right?
1198. 01:05:59 There's, you know, from strength to strength, like there's a bunch of these different books
1199. 01:06:05 that have this idea of, okay, in the first part of your life, most people are dedicated
1200. 01:06:10 towards achievement, accolades, jobs, status, money, family, like all these other things.
1201. 01:06:16 And then you go, well, shoot, what do I do now?
1202. 01:06:20 And then you go, oh, impact on others.
1203. 01:06:23 How do I pour into other people?
1204. 01:06:24 How do I pour into their life?
1205. 01:06:26 And then he asked the direct question, how will I use the remaining time?
1206. 01:06:29 How will I ensure these last minutes are played with purpose and impact?
1207. 01:06:34 And he's basically saying, hey, embrace the moment, have purpose around that moment, appreciate
1208. 01:06:41 that moment, impact other people's lives, go out there and like, I mean, he goes through
1209. 01:06:46 this and I don't want to read all 10 of them, but like, here are some steps you can take
1210. 01:06:50 right now to live more fully.
1211. 01:06:51 So I'll just talk a couple of things.
1212. 01:06:52 But I like them.
1213. 01:06:53 Do you have the list?
1214. 01:06:54 Because I have it.
1215. 01:06:55 Yeah, I have the list.
1216. 01:06:56 I have the list right in front of me.
1217. 01:06:57 Okay.
1218. 01:06:58 So number one, reflect on your values.
1219. 01:07:00 What matters most to you?
1220. 01:07:02 What do you want your, what do you want your life to, to stand for?
1221. 01:07:06 Number two, set meaningful goals, not just career goals, but personal goals.
1222. 01:07:10 How do you want to improve as a person?
1223. 01:07:11 Step three, practice gratitude.
1224. 01:07:13 Take the time each day to appreciate the good in your life.
1225. 01:07:17 Number four, serve others.
1226. 01:07:18 Look for ways to make a positive impact on those around you.
1227. 01:07:21 Number five, keep learning, read widely, seek out new experiences.
1228. 01:07:25 Stay curious about the world.
1229. 01:07:26 Number six, build relationships, invest time and energy into people that matter to you.
1230. 01:07:31 Step seven, take, take care of yourself.
1231. 01:07:33 Your physical and mental health are crucial to living a full life.
1232. 01:07:36 Eight, embrace challenges, see difficulties as opportunities for growth, nine, live with
1233. 01:07:40 integrity, let your actions align with your values, 10, leave a legacy.
1234. 01:07:45 Think about how you want to be remembered and start living that way now.
1235. 01:07:47 I mean, they're gold, like they're absolute gold, which is why I had to read them because
1236. 01:07:53 this is, this is brilliant, like, yeah, you can read them and kind of lose the, it's easy
1237. 01:08:02 to undervalue what he shares with you right there.
1238. 01:08:08 But if you, if all you did was take that list of 10 things and every single day, ask yourself,
1239. 01:08:14 how do I execute these things to the best of my ability, you will absolutely upgrade
1240. 01:08:22 your life.
1241. 01:08:23 Yep.
1242. 01:08:24 And, and then he, he, I don't remember how close to the end of the book this is, but
1243. 01:08:27 like I, I've also acknowledged this other one.
1244. 01:08:31 We won't be measured in metrics like wins and losses, successes and failures, but what,
1245. 01:08:36 were you a good person?
1246. 01:08:37 Were you kind, positive difference on people around you, unique path and resilience?
1247. 01:08:42 Were you in, you have integrity, you know, like, it's like, I think about this and I
1248. 01:08:47 think my goodness, if it 87, I'm this grounded, like, I, I just hope I'm this grounded.
1249. 01:08:54 I hope I'm like, this is the way in my life.
1250. 01:08:56 And this is a guy who had crazy success is a basketball player as a college coach, as
1251. 01:09:01 a Nike executive, right?
1252. 01:09:02 Like, I mean, all of the ways he could be like, look at what I did.
1253. 01:09:06 Look how amazing I am.
1254. 01:09:07 Like you should be my, you should be like me and have all the relationships I have.
1255. 01:09:10 But that's nothing of what he says in this book.
1256. 01:09:13 He said, Hey, were you a person of integrity?
1257. 01:09:16 Did you keep your word?
1258. 01:09:17 Did you tell the truth?
1259. 01:09:18 Right?
1260. 01:09:19 Like, dad, go on it.
1261. 01:09:20 Like, what a, what a great way to end the book.
1262. 01:09:22 Yeah.
1263. 01:09:23 One of the things that illustrates how important that was to him, it's a story from a chapter
1264. 01:09:27 we didn't really even unpack, but when he was, was it in college playing against Jerry
1265. 01:09:34 West?
1266. 01:09:35 Oh, yeah.
1267. 01:09:36 Jerry West is the logo for the NBA.
1268. 01:09:38 That's Jerry West.
1269. 01:09:40 So he's, he's playing his, his, George's team is playing Jerry West's team.
1270. 01:09:47 I can't remember if it was high school or college, but bottom line, George's team had
1271. 01:09:53 was an African American team or they had African American players and Jerry's team, like they
1272. 01:09:59 had never played against an African American before.
1273. 01:10:01 So in the middle of the racial tension, and there's one particular play where George goes
1274. 01:10:06 up to block a shot or something and he comes down on the golden boy, like he lands on Jerry
1275. 01:10:12 West and everybody's just ready to, to storm the court, you know, and Jerry gets up and
1276. 01:10:19 he holds out his hand and he helps George up and he said that in that moment it completely
1277. 01:10:23 diffused all of the tension.
1278. 01:10:25 They become great friends.
1279. 01:10:26 And in this chapter, he talks about how much it impacted him when Jerry West passed away
1280. 01:10:31 and how he couldn't talk to anybody for a couple of days.
1281. 01:10:34 But the other thing that is powerful about this, this chapter, because remember at the
1282. 01:10:38 beginning, he mentioned that when he was born, the average life expectancy, black males,
1283. 01:10:43 48 years old.
1284. 01:10:44 So he's like almost double that now.
1285. 01:10:46 And then he tells the story of how he's, uh, near the end of his coaching career, but
1286. 01:10:51 he's at, he's 57 and he's driving through LA and he gets side swiped and he really bad
1287. 01:10:56 car accident.
1288. 01:10:57 The cops who respond tell him, you are lucky to be alive.
1289. 01:11:01 So basically he survives this accident that by all accounts, most people would have died
1290. 01:11:07 from it.
1291. 01:11:08 He's like, I shouldn't be alive right now.
1292. 01:11:11 So he talks about how after that accident, he realizes not only is it has he lived longer
1293. 01:11:17 than, than the, his dad did, but literally it can change in a moment out of nowhere.
1294. 01:11:24 He's living on borrowed time and he needs to figure out what he's going to do with the
1295. 01:11:28 rest of his life after coaching.
1296. 01:11:30 And then that's the framing for the statement that life is not about achievements or act
1297. 01:11:34 away.
1298. 01:11:35 It's about the impact that we have in the lives of other people.
1299. 01:11:38 I mean, okay, yes, you are qualified to say that.
1300. 01:11:43 Yep.
1301. 01:11:44 Yep.
1302. 01:11:45 Yep.
1303. 01:11:46 And then the big takeaway really is just we got to live with urgency because we don't know
1304. 01:11:49 when it's all going to be over.
1305. 01:11:51 I mean, if you read this last chapter and you are not inspired, what is wrong with you?
1306. 01:11:55 Yeah.
1307. 01:11:56 Yeah.
1308. 01:11:57 It's, it's, it's just a beautiful, beautiful, you know, capstone to, to a great book.
1309. 01:12:04 Yep.
1310. 01:12:05 All right.
1311. 01:12:07 So we made it through the book, uh, action items.
1312. 01:12:10 As I mentioned earlier, I don't have any zero making a zero on the video also.
1313. 01:12:16 So no action items, which is kind of weird, I think, for this book.
1314. 01:12:24 But I guess that's just a testament to the format of the book and how it's more of an
1315. 01:12:29 inspirational book than it is a tactical here's how you do stuff.
1316. 01:12:33 I do think there are lots of, there's lots of possibilities still for action items.
1317. 01:12:39 Even talking through it, I feel like there were a couple places where I was like, oh,
1318. 01:12:43 that's almost an action item, but I don't have anything written down.
1319. 01:12:45 I don't know if I really want to do that.
1320. 01:12:46 There wasn't anything that crossed the line for me, but I do think that it is quite possible
1321. 01:12:50 to be inspired to do something specific from this book because he does share a lot of specifics
1322. 01:12:55 about the way that he thinks about things and the way that he does things.
1323. 01:12:59 This is related to an action item, like I can very much see this as being a book that
1324. 01:13:03 I gift to people.
1325. 01:13:04 Ah, yeah.
1326. 01:13:05 You know, like I won't call it an action item because I don't have a person in my mind
1327. 01:13:09 right now, but like, hey, like, hey, young man who's in my life, like go read this book.
1328. 01:13:15 Like this guy's got it figured out.
1329. 01:13:17 He's 87 years old.
1330. 01:13:18 He's got it figured out.
1331. 01:13:19 I pay attention to the basketball stuff.
1332. 01:13:20 Like those are just good stories, right?
1333. 01:13:22 Like, just listen to listen to the wisdom, like coming out of this book.
1334. 01:13:26 I think that is the closest thing I have to an action item out of this book.
1335. 01:13:29 Okay.
1336. 01:13:30 So I'm going to give us both an action item if you're cool that let's find somebody to
1337. 01:13:32 give this book to.
1338. 01:13:33 Yeah.
1339. 01:13:34 Okay.
1340. 01:13:35 That's a good one.
1341. 01:13:36 Yeah.
1342. 01:13:37 That's a good one.
1343. 01:13:38 Yeah.
1344. 01:13:39 All right.
1345. 01:13:40 Then style and rating.
1346. 01:13:41 It should be abundantly clear if you have listened to this point that I really like the
1347. 01:13:46 style of this book.
1348. 01:13:48 I do think that the Ryan Holiday influence comes through in the formatting of the chapters,
1349. 01:13:54 the fact that they're also short because that's kind of how he does it.
1350. 01:13:57 Yeah.
1351. 01:13:58 There's no, there's no three parts, but there's definitely the, the story principal arc here
1352. 01:14:04 with, uh, with these chapters.
1353. 01:14:07 What makes this unique and makes it not feel like a Ryan Holiday book at all is just the
1354. 01:14:13 amount of lived experience and the amount of wisdom that George Raveling had, personal
1355. 01:14:20 wisdom, George Raveling has, that definitely comes through.
1356. 01:14:23 So Ryan, well done, mission accomplished because I think Ryan would say, I don't want this
1357. 01:14:29 to be, uh, I don't want people to see me in this.
1358. 01:14:32 I just want to amplify George's story.
1359. 01:14:35 Yeah.
1360. 01:14:36 And I'm putting words in Ryan Holiday's mouth.
1361. 01:14:38 So maybe that's not the case, but I, that's what I recall, uh, hearing and that is absolutely
1362. 01:14:45 what happened here.
1363. 01:14:46 This is a George Raveling book other than saying, and Ryan Holiday on the front, you will not
1364. 01:14:52 know it.
1365. 01:14:53 There's no discussion of stoic philosophy.
1366. 01:14:55 There's just a guy with some crazy experiences and some awesome life lessons to share.
1367. 01:15:00 So I, this book is five stars, a hundred percent, uh, this is an amazing man.
1368. 01:15:08 It's some amazing stories and the premise behind this book is almost perfect.
1369. 01:15:14 Personal story.
1370. 01:15:15 A couple of years ago, my dad got diagnosed with, with cancer.
1371. 01:15:19 And right before that, we had, I had made the decision that I don't know, my dad's getting
1372. 01:15:23 older.
1373. 01:15:24 I don't know how much time I got left with him.
1374. 01:15:25 So we're going to start meeting more regularly for coffee just to hang out.
1375. 01:15:28 Now I've worked in the family business.
1376. 01:15:30 So almost every conversation, lengthy one on one conversation that I have ever had with
1377. 01:15:34 my dad tends to wind back to business.
1378. 01:15:38 Okay.
1379. 01:15:39 So we started meeting and it was just, let's talk.
1380. 01:15:42 Let me hear some of your stories.
1381. 01:15:44 And he was telling me some crazy stories, not as crazy as some of the ones that George shares
1382. 01:15:48 in this, this book, but I would definitely encourage people to take that approach.
1383. 01:15:53 If there is an older family member or mentor in your life, they have wisdom to share.
1384. 01:16:00 So give them the platform to share it.
1385. 01:16:03 And amazing things will happen.
1386. 01:16:05 That is exactly what Ryan did with this book.
1387. 01:16:08 And this is, this is beautiful.
1388. 01:16:10 Like you said, it doesn't matter if you're a basketball fan or not.
1389. 01:16:13 I think if you are a basketball fan, you've got a little bit more context, maybe for some
1390. 01:16:18 of these stories, but you do not need to understand basketball, the NBA, any of that, in order
1391. 01:16:24 to benefit from reading this book.
1392. 01:16:27 And it is a short, easy read, there is no fluff, there is nothing wasted.
1393. 01:16:32 There's nothing where it's like, oh, I wish you would just get to the point already.
1394. 01:16:35 I was sad when this one was over.
1395. 01:16:38 I wish there was a volume two.
1396. 01:16:40 Yep.
1397. 01:16:41 Absolutely pick this one up, absolutely read it.
1398. 01:16:44 Everybody in the bookworm audience, I don't think there has been an easier blanket recommendation
1399. 01:16:49 for me than this book because it has nothing to do with what problem are you trying to
1400. 01:16:55 solve right now in your life or business.
1401. 01:16:57 It's really just, you want to learn something from someone who has some really crazy stories,
1402. 01:17:03 then pick this one up because that's what you get.
1403. 01:17:07 You get a conversation with your grandpa in front of the fire and he's just riffing and
1404. 01:17:13 you're just like, wow, I wish I would have been there.
1405. 01:17:16 Yep.
1406. 01:17:17 Mike, I hate to do this.
1407. 01:17:19 I really hate to do this.
1408. 01:17:21 I don't know if I can add much value to what you just said.
1409. 01:17:24 I completely agree with everything you said.
1410. 01:17:26 Even the idea of grandpa at the end, because that's what I'm thinking about is I'm like,
1411. 01:17:31 man, this guy just wrote the, hey, I'm your grandpa and this is what I want to tell you
1412. 01:17:37 before I die.
1413. 01:17:39 I'm going to wrap it in a bunch of really cool stories.
1414. 01:17:41 Yep.
1415. 01:17:42 I mean, I absolutely love it.
1416. 01:17:45 It's a five star book.
1417. 01:17:47 This will tell you, I mean, there are 1,000, 2,000, 10,000, 100,000 books that are out there
1418. 01:17:54 that like the idea of repeating a read to me is just craziness, right?
1419. 01:17:59 Because there's so many good books out there.
1420. 01:18:00 There's so many other books to read.
1421. 01:18:02 This is one of those ones that I'm like, I should probably reread this at some point,
1422. 01:18:06 right?
1423. 01:18:07 Like I should probably like put this in the calendar for like a year or two from now and
1424. 01:18:09 just like, hey, reread that George Ravelling book because it's good and like, and it's
1425. 01:18:13 one of those ones that's going to have an impact on you or like bring this into your
1426. 01:18:17 mastermind group or bring this into your whatever group and just be like, let's just talk about
1427. 01:18:21 this one.
1428. 01:18:22 This one's a good book. I can't say anything other than that five star book. You did it
1429. 01:18:26 great. It perfects like, if you haven't read this one, pick it up. I hate basketball.
1430. 01:18:30 What's I? I don't hate basketball. I'm not a big fan of basketball. I could care less
1431. 01:18:34 about basketball.
1432. 01:18:35 Super good read.
1433. 01:18:36 It was, it was awesome.
1434. 01:18:37 Yeah.
1435. 01:18:38 Awesome.
1436. 01:18:39 This one was a pleasant surprise, I will say.
1437. 01:18:42 Yeah.
1438. 01:18:43 So good. Good work. I'm glad you brought this to our, to our show and to my reading list.
1439. 01:18:48 Awesome. All right. Well, let's put what you're made for on the shelf. What's next, Corey?
1440. 01:18:56 So the next book is called design love in how to unleash the most powerful force in
1441. 01:19:02 business. So it's very much a business book that incorporates the idea of like bringing
1442. 01:19:07 love into the structure of your business. It's by Marcus Buckingham, which Mike has read
1443. 01:19:13 a Marcus Buckingham book before. I have not. I'm a couple chapters into this one so far
1444. 01:19:19 doing okay. So if you're reading along with us, I mean, we're basically going to think
1445. 01:19:23 about like, the way I'm thinking about it is like the secret sauce of business. What
1446. 01:19:27 Marcus Buckingham think is that things is the secret sauce of business, that if we do
1447. 01:19:31 it right, business is better. If we don't do it right, business is worse. So pick it
1448. 01:19:36 up. Design love in by Marcus Buckingham. After that, what are we doing Mike? After that,
1449. 01:19:43 we are doing unreasonable hospitality by Will Gidara. I'm not sure if I'm saying that name
1450. 01:19:48 correctly, but this I actually have two copies of this book. One I bought from Amazon, one
1451. 01:19:56 I picked up at half price books. And so it's been recommended. And I forgot I had it, whatever
1452. 01:20:04 looked interesting enough, someone recommended it enough that I actually bought it twice.
1453. 01:20:09 And I hadn't been, hadn't been tempted to pick it up and choose it for bookworm until
1454. 01:20:15 I came across that Nathan Barry episode with Will and then his business partner. They shared
1455. 01:20:20 some really cool stories in that podcast episode about the things that they do in their business
1456. 01:20:25 that's just don't scale and give surprising delight to people. As I mentioned, way at
1457. 01:20:30 the beginning, that's really been influencing my thinking about the formative community
1458. 01:20:34 that I want to build in the library. And I think this is probably going to be more relevant
1459. 01:20:41 than I originally thought. So when I read it, or when I first came across it, I kind of
1460. 01:20:46 thought it was like a business book. And how do you apply this like a service based business?
1461. 01:20:50 Because they have a restaurant. And so maybe that was one of the reasons that I kept putting
1462. 01:20:54 this one off or, you know, not picking it up. But after that podcast episode, I can't wait
1463. 01:21:00 to read this one. And this and this was on my list as well. So I'm glad you, I'm glad
1464. 01:21:05 you picked this one up. I just hadn't made it to it yet. Nice. Got any gap books? So
1465. 01:21:10 I do. I'm doing a gap book right now called How to Lead Your Family by Joel R. beak. So
1466. 01:21:16 it's very much in the Christian sphere. But how to lead your family by Joel beak. How
1467. 01:21:23 about you? I do not. I am trying to survive the graduation week. Yep. I've got some travel
1468. 01:21:30 coming up to. So I'm hoping to get some more reading done, but don't have a gap book yet.
1469. 01:21:36 Okay. All right. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for supporting the show.
1470. 01:21:42 Thank you specifically to our pro members. If you want to become a bookworm pro member,
1471. 01:21:47 get a longer ad free version of the show, get the bootleg released right after the recording.
1472. 01:21:52 So typically one to two weeks early, get a 4K wallpaper access to my reading masterclass.
1473. 01:21:58 You can get all of that for $7 a month. Go to bookworm.fm/pro. And if you're reading along
1474. 01:22:07 with us, pick up design love in by Marcus Buckingham. And we'll talk to you next time.