4: The Obstacle Is The Way by Ryan Holiday

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1. 00:00:00 To be honest, it's been on my list for a long time. I've actually had the book for a long time and
2. 00:00:04 I never got around to reading it. I started reading it and it was kind of dense and I put it down
3. 00:00:11 but I always knew that like I've heard so many people rave about this book that
4. 00:00:17 I knew I wanted to come back to it at some point and so I thought if Joe holds me accountable, I'll actually read it. Hey, there you go.
5. 00:00:24 I did.
6. 00:00:26 Nice. So for the listeners, we're talking about the obstacle is the way and
7. 00:00:31 this was actually very fitting, Mike, because I had this one on my list as well and
8. 00:00:35 I don't think I told you that but I have had this one
9. 00:00:40 According to my notes, it's been on my list for close to a year now
10. 00:00:45 But I don't know that I
11. 00:00:48 Guess I don't know why I wasn't bringing it up right away. It's something to read but
12. 00:00:56 I definitely think it's fitting as far as
13. 00:00:58 Seasons of life at least that I'm in right now. It was very
14. 00:01:03 very interesting, but the premise behind it is primarily
15. 00:01:08 You have a big obstacle in your life. There's a big roadblock that you've come up against and
16. 00:01:15 What do you do about it? Well, how do you how do you handle that and Ryan holiday the author?
17. 00:01:22 He takes us on this journey of how to see
18. 00:01:26 and
19. 00:01:27 Work with these obstacles and how to see those as the process and the direction that you should go
20. 00:01:33 Is that fair, Mike? Yeah, and this is
21. 00:01:37 Actually, I thought it was kind of funny on the cover of this book
22. 00:01:41 He's got a quote from Stephen Pressfield who wrote the War of Art
23. 00:01:45 Which is the last book that we talked about and I thought this book was very complementary to that one. Oh
24. 00:01:51 Yeah, easy it kind of felt
25. 00:01:55 I would say that the authors ob they between Stephen Pressfield and Ryan holiday. They have very different styles and
26. 00:02:02 with Ryan holiday
27. 00:02:06 it this particular one plays into the War of Art very well because
28. 00:02:11 Pressfield talks a lot about like we talked about last time of
29. 00:02:15 fighting resistance and
30. 00:02:18 basically forcing yourself to continue to create and
31. 00:02:23 then Ryan steps in here and is like, you know, that obstacle of fighting and
32. 00:02:29 Dealing with that resistance. That's the direction you should go. That's least that's the way I took it. It was interesting
33. 00:02:36 Yeah, so kind of like the War of Art. This one's broken down into very short chapters
34. 00:02:40 There's a couple sections just like the War of Art and the chapters are all basically a couple pages long revolving around a central idea
35. 00:02:47 But what I really liked about this book was all of the stories that he used to illustrate his points
36. 00:02:52 is a lot of in particular historical stories so people who aren't made up who actually live this stuff out and
37. 00:02:59 Most of the people that he talks about I have a good enough understanding of that
38. 00:03:05 It's not that you have to take him at his word when he says this is what's happening
39. 00:03:10 Like you know enough about the story to be like, yeah
40. 00:03:13 Yeah, that that makes sense
41. 00:03:14 I can totally see that because I know what happened and I I see that this is the technique that they leverage to
42. 00:03:20 overcome that obstacle so to speak
43. 00:03:22 Yeah, that was interesting. I meant you know, I didn't take a lot of notes on this as we were talking about earlier, but
44. 00:03:27 One of the things I did write down was that I loved the history that you brought into this because it wasn't just about
45. 00:03:34 like just explaining the concepts he at least showed examples of I
46. 00:03:40 guess the
47. 00:03:42 patriarchs of our past that have done some very difficult things like Rockefeller
48. 00:03:48 Ulysses Grant like there's just a lot of I
49. 00:03:50 Guess what would you say massive figures in in the past that have done some pretty amazing things and he was very good about showing
50. 00:03:59 each individual
51. 00:04:02 Aspect or he would bring out a story that showed a specific aspect that at least for me
52. 00:04:07 That helps me relate quite a bit so I was kind of interested in that it made me actually write down
53. 00:04:12 Some names that I wanted to go because there was a few of them like I'd heard of the names
54. 00:04:17 But I know a whole lot about them and that's probably my own ignorance and not paying attention in history class
55. 00:04:22 if I'm gonna confess that but
56. 00:04:25 It was interesting enough that I was trying to figure out if they were like biographies about some of these people because they were very
57. 00:04:32 Interesting and I wanted to know more about Rockefeller. I'm just curious what all he did right
58. 00:04:36 Yeah, Abraham Lincoln was another one that he mentioned like they're all names that you have at least heard of before
59. 00:04:43 You're a little bit familiar with even if you didn't pay attention to history class, which I'd have to confess
60. 00:04:47 I wasn't all great at either
61. 00:04:49 But the historical figures are interesting because right at the beginning of the book
62. 00:04:53 He talks about how and this is a quote. He says we live in the most prosperous time in history our obstacles are internal
63. 00:05:02 So a lot of the people that he talks about overcame
64. 00:05:06 External obstacles, but that really resonated with me
65. 00:05:09 We're not fighting a civil war to end slavery
66. 00:05:13 And we don't deal with a lot of the things that they they dealt with in history
67. 00:05:18 in the past
68. 00:05:21 But we all have this these struggles and these obstacles that we have to overcome
69. 00:05:26 He he said it this way another place. He says many of our problems come from having too much were soft and titled and scared of conflict
70. 00:05:34 Great times are great softeners. So that did two things for me
71. 00:05:39 one it first of all kicked me in the pants and
72. 00:05:42 Made me realize that's maybe some of the things that I think are obstacles or you know situations need to change
73. 00:05:47 It's really maybe not so bad
74. 00:05:49 Which that's a whole nother topic. He gets into that in the first section
75. 00:05:53 But the other thing was that yeah
76. 00:05:56 Our conflicts are internal if you have internal conflicts internal obstacles that you have to overcome that is normal
77. 00:06:04 You are normal you are okay. There's nothing wrong with you
78. 00:06:07 You just have to it's similar to what press he was getting at like we're we have this internal battle. Yep
79. 00:06:16 Let me just we just have to deal with ourselves right right and then
80. 00:06:20 He breaks down the book into the three
81. 00:06:24 Three sections, which is basically perception action and will you want to kind of go through these maybe one by one?
82. 00:06:30 Yeah, I think so because at least the first two
83. 00:06:34 specifically because
84. 00:06:36 It changed how I thought about things quite a bit. So the I'll just jump in there the the first one he talks about his perception and
85. 00:06:44 Essentially what he's getting at in that section is
86. 00:06:49 Choosing how you see an obstacle. So you have this trial that's come your way and
87. 00:06:55 your perception on that trial is
88. 00:06:59 Pretty important and it can dictate how you come at the trial for example
89. 00:07:06 if say up my car breaks down whenever I'm trying to go home after a long day at work
90. 00:07:11 That's really traumatic honestly because I wanted to get home and living in the Twin Cities traffic is never fun
91. 00:07:19 Which means you're gonna have people flying by you and it's a very dangerous situation. So it's very difficult to
92. 00:07:26 see that as anything positive and can be quite frightening honestly and
93. 00:07:33 That whole first section just made me stop and think about a lot of these
94. 00:07:37 Difficulties that we deal I mean we all have a lot of things that we deal with right now
95. 00:07:41 We're so busy
96. 00:07:42 There's it's hard to find somebody who doesn't have something going on that that they're dealing with in some form at least
97. 00:07:47 If they say they don't just keep asking questions, you'll eventually find it
98. 00:07:51 and I feel like if you
99. 00:07:54 Take a lot of what Ryan is getting at here
100. 00:07:57 He makes you stop and think about how
101. 00:08:01 How you perceive those difficulties and look for the positive side of those
102. 00:08:07 I don't know what the positive side would be of being stranded on the side of the road with a broken-down car
103. 00:08:12 but that's essentially what he's trying to help you do is
104. 00:08:15 Think about it in that way of looking for the positive
105. 00:08:19 Yeah, and he would he would even say that that's not a bad event
106. 00:08:25 He would say that there would be positive that could come up come of that
107. 00:08:28 That was the thing that I really got out of this first section was that things are
108. 00:08:34 What they are but looking at them as
109. 00:08:37 Events and not coloring them with a cognitive bias of being either good or bad
110. 00:08:44 Just this is the way things are let's deal with it because even like look at the terms
111. 00:08:48 I'm using whenever I explain that like it's frightening. It's a terrible thing that my car broke down. Well, that's me
112. 00:08:55 overlaying my
113. 00:08:57 Bad perception on top of that situation
114. 00:09:00 Yep, yeah, exactly and he uses some pretty crazy examples to illustrate people who kind of have this down
115. 00:09:09 I think one of them was the
116. 00:09:11 Ulysses Grant
117. 00:09:13 Example where he was getting his picture taken or something and then all right fell through the the window like right next to him
118. 00:09:19 From the roof almost killed him and he wasn't even phased by it. It didn't even move
119. 00:09:24 It's like I want to jump down on my chair like
120. 00:09:27 Yeah, and the term that he used for that reaction which I thought was awesome and I wrote it down was saying Freud
121. 00:09:36 I think is how you say it say ng F R O I D which is unflappable coolness under pressure
122. 00:09:43 That's one of my takeaways is to develop the ability to be saying Freud
123. 00:09:48 So you're gonna put that on your computer like on the screen so you can look at it all the time
124. 00:09:53 I think I'm gonna have to yeah, I love that word
125. 00:09:57 Are you one of these guys that puts like the post it's on the screens are you one of these?
126. 00:10:01 Occasionally I'll do post it you do okay?
127. 00:10:04 It drives me bonkers. I've seen some people that do that and it just I can't do it
128. 00:10:09 It's not normal usually if I if I want something that I want to be able to see all the time
129. 00:10:14 I'll I'll have it framed. I'll put it on my wall
130. 00:10:17 Yeah, yeah, I've got a couple things like that in my office
131. 00:10:22 But generally do not keep post it's on my monitor
132. 00:10:26 I used to work with a guy that did that and he he would put posts it's on the screen, but
133. 00:10:33 In my thinking if you're going to do that like if there's something like this that you want to keep around
134. 00:10:39 And you're going to stick something on your computer monitor like you do it at the bottom so it hangs off
135. 00:10:43 The bottom of the screen he was talking at the top
136. 00:10:47 So that they would be overlapping the screen so your answer could be gone behind
137. 00:10:52 Yes, or or like if it's a Mac you would miss your whole toolbar up there like the whole menu bar is gone
138. 00:10:57 I don't think I could use my computer without my menu bar. I'm not sure this is a good idea anyway
139. 00:11:03 It not to get us too far off track there
140. 00:11:05 But if there's something you want to keep around don't cover your computer screen, please
141. 00:11:10 Right, right, but saying Freud I may have to make an exception for because that's so cool
142. 00:11:16 We'll just don't write it on the screen itself, okay? All right
143. 00:11:19 But it was interesting that he had some of these historical stories were
144. 00:11:26 difficult things happen and
145. 00:11:29 Like Rockefeller just didn't care like okay. There's bad things going on great. How can I take advantage of that? Well?
146. 00:11:36 That's not the way I think I don't think that way
147. 00:11:39 It's like if something bad happens. I'm upset about it, and it's a difficulty, but
148. 00:11:45 Even saying that it's a bad thing
149. 00:11:47 Isn't correct. That's just my perception of the situation
150. 00:11:52 Yep, exactly. He said this can't harm me
151. 00:11:56 I might not have wanted it to happen, but I decided how it will affect me
152. 00:12:00 No one else has the right and I really liked his word choice right there
153. 00:12:04 I think that's really a really important distinction that you can only control what you can control and he talks about the I think it's the serenity prayer
154. 00:12:13 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah in the book
155. 00:12:15 But that's a really important thing is like realizing that there's some things that you just can't control
156. 00:12:21 So there's no use getting bent out of shape if that stuff happens
157. 00:12:25 control the things you can control and then the stuff that you can't control figure out how to leverage it
158. 00:12:30 there's this thing called the
159. 00:12:33 procrastination leads to blamies to victim thinking cycle and
160. 00:12:38 The basic idea and I think this applies to most people who don't intentionally try to break this
161. 00:12:43 I think this is kind of the default especially with our culture today
162. 00:12:47 It's like it's not your fault which that that may be maybe true, but it doesn't matter how you start he talks about that later
163. 00:12:52 I'm sure we'll talk about that later. What matters is what you do from this point forward
164. 00:12:56 so what most people will do is they'll procrastinate on something and
165. 00:13:01 then
166. 00:13:04 That will lead them to project blame when those things that happen. They can't control
167. 00:13:09 They'll they'll blame someone or something else for that resulting circumstance and then ultimately if they get holoconable
168. 00:13:18 They say I'm a victim and that's the whole victim thinking mentality
169. 00:13:23 But it starts with the procrastination a lot of times if we would just take action on the things that that we should be doing
170. 00:13:29 We can overcome the need to blame anybody we can overcome feeling like a victim
171. 00:13:34 We could conquer that obstacle just by taking a little bit of action
172. 00:13:38 So at agent efficiency we talk about solar flaring and I think we've maybe even mentioned that and one of our previous podcast
173. 00:13:44 But the idea that you take a little bit of action and that's gonna translate into more results than you think
174. 00:13:50 kind of leverages that the compound effect to
175. 00:13:54 Produce multiplied results and we have this use the word again kind of bias a lot of times. Oh something is so hard
176. 00:14:02 It's so impossible that giant is so big that obstacle is so big
177. 00:14:07 I'll never be able to overcome it when really when we finally must start the strength to run at it
178. 00:14:11 It's like oh that that wasn't so bad
179. 00:14:14 Yeah, cuz I think there's
180. 00:14:17 There's a lot of difficulty I think in that though be and that's why there's a book on it here is
181. 00:14:24 When we have something that's a challenge or something happens to us like you're saying with the victim
182. 00:14:29 thinking
183. 00:14:31 It's really easy to just focus on that and get upset about it
184. 00:14:35 I mean how just look at any sort of
185. 00:14:38 anybody can open Twitter or any sort of social media of any kind and finding people who are offended is just
186. 00:14:45 incredibly way too easy. Yeah, and
187. 00:14:48 When we get offended over things
188. 00:14:51 it's
189. 00:14:54 It's too easy to fall into that instead of getting offended about it and throwing a hissy fit and
190. 00:14:59 Just going on rants about it
191. 00:15:02 You know if you're in a celebrity, maybe that's a good thing because then you can drive
192. 00:15:06 publicity on something but for most of us that's not the case
193. 00:15:10 Instead we're better off
194. 00:15:13 Understanding that yes something bad is happening politics. Don't go the way I want them to it's just life and
195. 00:15:18 If I just understand that some of these difficult things happen
196. 00:15:23 And then decide to do something about it
197. 00:15:26 I mean that's the whole second part of this book is taking action on it and if you
198. 00:15:30 Take some of those difficult things and do something with it
199. 00:15:34 You can actually start to drive something positive out of it instead of just seeing it as a negative and getting upset about it
200. 00:15:40 Exactly and it may be something that is quote-unquote negative. It's not something you would have chosen to have happened
201. 00:15:47 But then
202. 00:15:48 What do you do from that point forward? You can't change what happened in the past?
203. 00:15:53 You just have to deal with it and overcome it. He says it this way
204. 00:15:57 So through our perception of events we are complicit in the creation as well as the destruction of every one of our obstacles
205. 00:16:04 I think a lot of times we create obstacles instead of destroy them
206. 00:16:09 Because we choose to play the victim card
207. 00:16:12 We choose to say old things didn't go exactly how I would have liked them to go
208. 00:16:17 But we talked about that when we I think when we talked about the willpower instinct about how people have this
209. 00:16:22 bias where they project that everything's gonna go perfectly and that's never the way it happens
210. 00:16:28 So there's always an opportunity to play that victim card
211. 00:16:32 there's always an opportunity to make an excuse for the obstacle that is in the way and this book really just
212. 00:16:39 Encouraged me to not take that view whenever I run into that obstacle first of all just slow down
213. 00:16:46 Recognize that it's that it's there don't judge it as good or bad and then okay
214. 00:16:50 What do we do with this thing because there is a way to overcome this and you just got to figure out what that is?
215. 00:16:55 Now one of the things I mentioned and I don't know if this was before we started recording or not Mike
216. 00:16:59 but was that I
217. 00:17:01 started reading this book at exactly the right time because I
218. 00:17:06 Recently as we're recording this I recently
219. 00:17:09 Made a fairly significant business decision now. I can't tell you what that is
220. 00:17:14 but
221. 00:17:15 it it essentially meant that I made the largest financial investment into an opportunity that I've ever made and
222. 00:17:22 It is kind of like a self-imposed
223. 00:17:25 obstacle in a self-imposed trial because
224. 00:17:29 It puts me in a spot
225. 00:17:32 financially not
226. 00:17:33 Bad but it means that I just have to hustle a little bit more and it's not like it's a difficult thing
227. 00:17:40 It just means I have to be conscious about it now I
228. 00:17:43 got to thinking about that and
229. 00:17:45 It kind of made me wonder if you know if that had happened say it wasn't an investment say it was you know
230. 00:17:52 Some markets tanked or something and I had my money in a bad spot if something happened and I just lost that money
231. 00:17:58 then
232. 00:18:01 Would I come at it differently and?
233. 00:18:03 Prior to this book I would probably say yeah, I would probably be a bit upset and
234. 00:18:08 Wallow in it for a few days and just
235. 00:18:11 waste a couple days I guess
236. 00:18:14 just worrying about what's gonna happen next and I can see how that can create a cycle and a
237. 00:18:21 hit of inaction and and just drive that whole victim mentality and
238. 00:18:26 This is perfect timing because I was probably halfway through this book whenever I was trying to make this decision to do it and
239. 00:18:33 Whenever I finally said yes, why are the money and go then?
240. 00:18:38 It was kind of a trigger at that point of okay. This is gonna be difficult. I need to work my tail off
241. 00:18:45 I need to do some things but
242. 00:18:47 Just sitting and trying to figure it out isn't gonna do anything
243. 00:18:51 So this is go all the way back to the first book. We read getting things done. What's the next action?
244. 00:18:56 and
245. 00:18:58 How do I bring myself and will myself through?
246. 00:19:01 self-control and and working through the resist I mean you can start to tie all these books that we've talked about into this and
247. 00:19:08 how do I drive myself to action and make that a habit and I think Ryan holiday does a great job here of
248. 00:19:17 kind of creating motivation instead of
249. 00:19:22 It's not like a scientific stance. I mean we've talked about scientific studies quite a bit here on the on the podcast already and
250. 00:19:28 He doesn't really get into that. He's using a lot of story to drive the point home
251. 00:19:34 And I think that's exactly what I needed right at this moment because it it's something that
252. 00:19:38 creates the the drive and the
253. 00:19:42 motivation I don't know a different word for it drives the motivation to get started on some things and
254. 00:19:48 even in a short amount of time that I've made that decision to try to to do that action it's paid off big already
255. 00:19:56 so
256. 00:19:57 It has been a perfect timing because even though there's a difficulty in front of me
257. 00:20:02 it's nice to have that motivation and understanding of okay just understand what's happening and
258. 00:20:10 Choose to see it as a positive thing and then get your button gear and get moving. Yeah
259. 00:20:17 No, that's that's that's really good and I would even add
260. 00:20:21 Not even necessarily choose to see it as a positive thing in your specifics instance that makes a lot of sense
261. 00:20:27 Because it's a it's a decision that you've you've made
262. 00:20:31 But another thing that I was thinking of when I was reading this book and you can cut this part out if you want
263. 00:20:36 I'm not trying to get political but
264. 00:20:38 Great Britain has just voted to leave the European Union. Okay, so I know a lot of people right?
265. 00:20:43 Yeah, you are in a real tough spot with their businesses now and
266. 00:20:46 The ones I would wager that are going to be successful are the ones who are
267. 00:20:54 Going to be able to look at this situation and figure out how do I make the best out of this because I'm sure I don't know
268. 00:21:00 All the politics. I don't know all the details, but my experience has been that when stuff like this happens
269. 00:21:06 There's usually opportunities there
270. 00:21:09 For the people that can see them and he kind of talks about that a little bit with I think he mentioned Rockefeller in in this in this book
271. 00:21:17 Yeah, that was the primary when it came to finances in an economic downturn
272. 00:21:21 That was the one he brought up. It was like right at the beginning to anything
273. 00:21:24 So real-life example of the importance of this stuff
274. 00:21:27 there are a whole bunch of people who literally overnight have to develop these skills and I
275. 00:21:32 Guess I would say you know for anybody who is thinking about reading the book pedal before the hill
276. 00:21:39 You know develop these skills develop this mindset before you get to that point where it's sink or swim
277. 00:21:45 He has a phrase in that I wrote down that I really like this is when you worry when you catch yourself worrying
278. 00:21:50 You should ask yourself. What am I choosing not to see right now?
279. 00:21:54 I think a lot of times we miss those opportunities because we're blinded we're jaded. We have that cognitive bias
280. 00:22:00 I'm probably gonna say that a lot. Hopefully not
281. 00:22:02 But but it's true like we choose to see things a certain way because of how we are feeling
282. 00:22:10 Right now and if we can just see it for what it is and figure out how to solve this puzzle make the most out of this particular
283. 00:22:17 Situation that's I can totally see how that is a very very valuable life skill
284. 00:22:22 Have you seen the movie hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy or read the book?
285. 00:22:26 I guess but the movie is the one that that kind of introduced me to to the book. I
286. 00:22:30 have not read the book and I
287. 00:22:35 I'm gonna confess here Mike. I have tried to watch it be about three times. Okay. Well, I'm
288. 00:22:41 It's not for me. I'm gonna say that I'm gonna make you watch it with me
289. 00:22:45 Because I thought I thought the same thing. Okay, book is really good, but they have a phrase in there
290. 00:22:52 Don't panic and that's what I thought the whole time I'm reading all this stuff. Don't panic
291. 00:22:57 Don't go anywhere without your wonderful. Yeah
292. 00:23:03 It's interesting you bring up the whole
293. 00:23:05 Brexit thing because
294. 00:23:10 it's a situation where a lot of people freak out and you know think of the economic downturn in 2008 that that was very
295. 00:23:19 traumatic from a national standpoint, but
296. 00:23:23 There were at the time and I wasn't in a place to do this, but I had some people around me who
297. 00:23:30 were seeking a lot of financial advice from professional financial advisors and a lot of people were talking about how to pull money out and
298. 00:23:38 I had a couple
299. 00:23:40 who I would call sages a couple of these mentors that were in my life at the time that
300. 00:23:47 we're dumping money into the markets left and right and it just made zero sense to me at the time and
301. 00:23:53 Now I'm sitting here looking at it thinking you guys are
302. 00:23:56 Geniuses like that was awesome
303. 00:23:59 and I
304. 00:24:01 Look back to like my grandfather did something similar in the 80s with farm ground and
305. 00:24:06 it was a scenario where a
306. 00:24:09 lot of people freak out a lot of people
307. 00:24:11 Just get really emotional and they see it as a very bad thing, but if you've prepared for difficult times
308. 00:24:18 it's a lot easier to
309. 00:24:20 In this whole scenario and this the book has a lot of references to stoicism and
310. 00:24:26 I'm no expert on stoicism, but from what I read here. I can resonate with a lot of it, but
311. 00:24:32 There's a lot of instances especially when you get to finances because I think that's the one piece of this that a lot of people can really
312. 00:24:39 relate to but
313. 00:24:42 There are instances where massive economic
314. 00:24:45 Not failure, but downturns happen and if you're ready for them then you can
315. 00:24:52 Analyze those rationally instead of emotionally that was a lot of what I got out of the book here Mike is that there's an awful lot of
316. 00:24:59 Think about it rationally and don't get emotional. Yeah, if you can see that correlation
317. 00:25:05 Yep, absolutely opportunities are everywhere
318. 00:25:08 What also was interesting about this is like he talks about Rockefeller
319. 00:25:12 But he talks about where Rockefeller started before he was Rockefeller before he had billions of dollars or whatever right?
320. 00:25:18 you know
321. 00:25:20 he made the point that most people actually start from a disadvantaged situation and so
322. 00:25:27 like Rockefeller
323. 00:25:30 He could have looked at his situation. He could have looked at the
324. 00:25:34 the
325. 00:25:35 circumstances of where he was at the at that time and
326. 00:25:38 Said, you know, I it's just not gonna happen for me. It's not in the cards
327. 00:25:43 But that's not obviously what what happened and I think that's really important
328. 00:25:49 He also talked about Steve Jobs had a called the reality distortion field
329. 00:25:53 Where you're tuning out all of the things that don't matter and you're focusing in on the things that that do matter
330. 00:26:02 He said that where the head goes the body will follow perception proceeds action right action follows the right perspective and
331. 00:26:10 That was the big thing for me was
332. 00:26:14 Make sure that you are seeing things right because when you're seeing things right the right actions are kind of a natural progression from that
333. 00:26:21 I think that it becomes pretty obvious what the right thing to do is when you see the thing right a
334. 00:26:27 Lot of times we don't see the thing right and that's why it's valuable to have people that you can bounce stuff off of
335. 00:26:33 other perspectives
336. 00:26:35 You know people can show you you know, you're blind spots
337. 00:26:38 So you what you're missing in a particular situation, but then the ability to sort all of that stuff out
338. 00:26:44 Away all the different criteria all the different inputs and see what's actually happening and then
339. 00:26:50 When you see what's actually happening. I believe like he's the title of the book the obstacle is the way the way then becomes clear
340. 00:26:58 Because this and maybe we can kind of transition into the next section here
341. 00:27:02 He says that action is commonplace a lot of people will react to a specific situation or circumstance
342. 00:27:09 But it might not be the right thing
343. 00:27:10 So action is commonplace right action is not and I think it all really comes down to how you see that event because as he said
344. 00:27:18 The worst thing that can happen is not the event
345. 00:27:21 It's even if it's the worst thing that you can think of the worst thing you can that could actually happen is not that particular event
346. 00:27:27 It's that event happening plus you losing your head and not being able to see things the way that they are
347. 00:27:33 It's true. It's true. I mean you think about any scenario you've had in life when
348. 00:27:37 something happened and you really didn't want it to happen and
349. 00:27:42 it causes you to lose your head and
350. 00:27:46 Time it's all sudden done. You've made it worse and
351. 00:27:51 there are a lot of instances I can think of growing up whenever I've done this and
352. 00:27:56 It's only it's funny how kids will sometimes take that out of you
353. 00:28:00 It's chaos in the house and yet you're able to
354. 00:28:05 Sometimes not always see through that and see what on earth is going on here and then try to figure out
355. 00:28:11 What did you guys just do like I what were you thinking and to us? It's just
356. 00:28:15 second nature sometimes to
357. 00:28:18 See something that happened and it was like okay what happened and then what needs to happen next whereas so many times
358. 00:28:24 especially with little kids
359. 00:28:26 something happens, you know the
360. 00:28:29 toy breaks and
361. 00:28:31 It's the end of the world like
362. 00:28:33 Everyone is gonna stop everything and come listen to how bad this is for me well
363. 00:28:40 You have to grow up at some point and get past that there's a lot of that mentality that sticks around
364. 00:28:45 which is kind of sad honestly and I think that if we
365. 00:28:52 can see situations
366. 00:28:54 Realize that they don't like like our perception on them
367. 00:28:58 can dictate how we act on them and
368. 00:29:01 choosing to do it the right way and
369. 00:29:04 Keep going and not just get something started and then just let it drop off
370. 00:29:09 I
371. 00:29:10 Think that's where a lot of the real power in our decisions comes from because there's a lot of
372. 00:29:16 Opportunity to drive towards things that could make you more successful
373. 00:29:20 you pick your own definition of what successful means there, but there's a lot of instances where
374. 00:29:26 something happens and I
375. 00:29:28 Know how I want to react. I think an email like you get an email I hate email and or something that's like
376. 00:29:35 I don't want that and
377. 00:29:37 There's always my response that I can type out immediately and I want to hit send
378. 00:29:42 But I know how many times do people tell us a way tonight like sleep on it before you send it and
379. 00:29:48 There's a lot of value in that and I think that's the mindset that
380. 00:29:51 The book is driving at is you know take some time?
381. 00:29:55 Think about it think through your actions and don't don't just react because
382. 00:30:01 At least for me my reaction in most cases is gonna be a negative
383. 00:30:06 Action instead of the right action to use his terms. Yep, and right action is gonna lead you to your future
384. 00:30:14 Your desired end that you really want he has a really good story about Teddy Roosevelt
385. 00:30:19 Do you remember that one? I
386. 00:30:22 Am attempting to recall it at the second. Okay. Well, basically Teddy Roosevelt was born into a wealthy family
387. 00:30:29 But when he was 12 years old he had asthma so bad that he would
388. 00:30:34 Have an attacker or something like that his body was so weak basically that he would he would get sick for weeks at a time and not be able to do anything
389. 00:30:43 And his father
390. 00:30:45 Basically built him a gym at their house. He said I can show you what to do
391. 00:30:52 but you have to make your body and
392. 00:30:55 Teddy Roosevelt at 12 years old actually responded by saying I'm gonna make my body and so he
393. 00:31:03 Worked out basically until he overcame not only asthma
394. 00:31:07 But if you study his story more than what is in this particular book
395. 00:31:12 It talks he's he went on to become like a a really good boxer. He was a
396. 00:31:18 Naturalist so he was outside doing stuff all the time all these things that at 12 years old
397. 00:31:23 Doctors said there's no way you're gonna be able to do any of that, but
398. 00:31:28 It's a really good example of how it's not really where you start
399. 00:31:32 It's it's how you are how you start, but how you finish?
400. 00:31:37 So he has a phrase he uses is that we take weakness for granted we take our current situation the fact that we can't do a certain thing for granted
401. 00:31:44 And then we assume that the way that we're born is simply the way we are and that our disadvantages are permanent
402. 00:31:49 and then we atrophy from there and
403. 00:31:51 the Teddy Roosevelt example just really was a great example of the complete opposite of that I thought where
404. 00:32:01 He started in a very disadvantaged situation, but instead of atrophy and he was intentionally focused on doing the right things and
405. 00:32:08 he
406. 00:32:10 Didn't waste his crisis so to speak like Ryan holiday talks about don't waste your crisis use it to create action
407. 00:32:16 He created action and then he has another concept. He says think progress not perfection. So
408. 00:32:23 We know where we want to go we have a goal
409. 00:32:27 Yeah, even after we've developed the ability to perceive things. Well, it's still not gonna happen overnight
410. 00:32:33 It's not gonna happen with this snap of a snap of your fingers. You have to do those little things right?
411. 00:32:38 It's the habit. It's the rituals that you create. It's the compound effect
412. 00:32:42 but that constant progress is
413. 00:32:45 Really really important and he had a couple stories in there that really illustrated that which I thought was really really good
414. 00:32:52 and was really encouraging for
415. 00:32:54 Anybody who is gonna pick this book up and read it you're gonna probably look at yourself and say well
416. 00:33:00 I can't do what this other person is doing because of X
417. 00:33:03 You know, I don't have this particular skill. I don't have this particular tool. I don't have
418. 00:33:09 you know fill in the blank, but
419. 00:33:12 this whole book is about taking that particular situation and
420. 00:33:17 Overcoming it no matter what it looks like no matter what the obstacle is like that was a cool thing about this
421. 00:33:23 To me is I know at the beginning he talks about how a lot of our obstacles now are our internal, but I saw I
422. 00:33:30 saw a lot of general
423. 00:33:33 Application of the stuff that he was talking about but yet it still seemed like he was speaking directly to my specific situation if that makes sense
424. 00:33:41 Yeah, it's very true. And if you think and maybe
425. 00:33:44 if you think about the book in some of the tips and
426. 00:33:50 Tid bits that he had throughout it. There's a lot of like productivity stuff. Yeah, I don't know if you caught on to that a lot
427. 00:33:57 but there's a lot of
428. 00:33:59 Develop this habit do a little bit every day. Yeah, my favorite keep the process going
429. 00:34:04 Yeah, my favorite thing
430. 00:34:05 I think in the entire book was replace fear with the process which I interpreted to to mean create a system for overcoming your obstacle
431. 00:34:14 Whatever it is. Yeah
432. 00:34:16 But there's just a lot of that there's
433. 00:34:19 at one point he was talking about mourning rituals and how that was used to overcome things and there's bringing up and
434. 00:34:26 developing this
435. 00:34:29 recurring practice of
436. 00:34:31 What do I want to say how I don't other than have its recurring actions that help you to beat this obstacle
437. 00:34:39 Just keep pounding away at it. There's stories about that in there and then
438. 00:34:43 the iteration process of get something out there and then
439. 00:34:47 Continue to tweak it and alter it until it's overcoming the trial that you're dealing with and there's a lot of that that
440. 00:34:54 you know you and I work in this productivity space pretty heavily and
441. 00:34:57 Within that there's a lot of let's be highly effective. Let's work on the right things
442. 00:35:02 Let's take on the correct projects and there's so much of this focus and
443. 00:35:09 chip away at it
444. 00:35:11 mindset and
445. 00:35:13 That's the mindset he's talking about and it's easy for you and I to talk about and write about it
446. 00:35:18 And I don't know about you, but it's just a constant battle
447. 00:35:21 to
448. 00:35:22 Continue to do the habits and continue working on things every day because you get tired of them you do get tired of it and
449. 00:35:28 It seems like even with
450. 00:35:32 As a writer and someone who writes for a blog in that productivity space
451. 00:35:38 Sometimes it's hard to keep coming up with something different because I have people that write to me and tell me that
452. 00:35:43 that they're looking for the
453. 00:35:45 Extra big extra awesome tip that helps them achieve an extra 20 minutes in a day
454. 00:35:50 like I have people asking me this stuff and it's it that's not the point
455. 00:35:54 like that's not that's not the idea here the idea is to make sure that whenever you do have that 20 minutes that you're
456. 00:36:02 spending it on the right thing and
457. 00:36:04 Just trying to find an extra 20 minutes. That doesn't that doesn't get you anything like you still have other obstacles to overcome
458. 00:36:10 Exactly and actually at Asian efficiency one of the things we get all the time is
459. 00:36:16 The the right tool or the right app and the right to the right app isn't gonna make any difference because you don't have the system in place to use it correctly
460. 00:36:25 Yeah, absolutely people people think that that is the magic bullet if I just knew this one trick
461. 00:36:30 If I just had this one app if I just had this one tool then everything is gonna be easier
462. 00:36:35 And I guess that's why this book resonated with me so much is it articulated very well better than I could ever have done it myself
463. 00:36:42 But it was in line with a lot of my belief systems that those things aren't gonna make the difference
464. 00:36:47 What's gonna make the difference is what you decide first of all how you see this obstacle that you're trying to overcome and then what you're going to do about it
465. 00:36:55 because I think everybody can relate to the
466. 00:36:59 To the the feeling that I can't do this thing that so-and-so is doing because of
467. 00:37:05 Fill in the blank. There's always going to be those excuses
468. 00:37:08 Uh, and he says in the book he says nobody is born with a steel backbone. We have to forge that ourselves
469. 00:37:16 We have to overcome those feelings of inadequacy
470. 00:37:19 We have to do the things that probably those people did in the first place
471. 00:37:23 You know, they they showed up and they blogged every day and they built that audience
472. 00:37:27 That doesn't mean that we can't do the same thing
473. 00:37:29 but
474. 00:37:31 You'll have far better luck toughening yourself up than trying to take the teeth out of a world that is at best
475. 00:37:37 Indifferent to your existence. I absolutely love that quote from the from the book
476. 00:37:42 And it's so true a lot of times we look for the universe
477. 00:37:46 To just create a way the heavens to open the illumination to come
478. 00:37:51 This is the way to go all you've got to do is this
479. 00:37:54 And that's why those those those tips those tools those apps those are always the most
480. 00:37:59 popular
481. 00:38:01 Post
482. 00:38:02 Is because people are looking for that one thing. It's much more than one thing
483. 00:38:07 but it's also
484. 00:38:09 A lot simpler than learning how to use a new tool. It's
485. 00:38:13 It's simple, but it's not easy if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, this book really
486. 00:38:21 It's it's to get the core ideas. It's longer than it needs to be
487. 00:38:25 I wouldn't argue that it's too long. I absolutely loved reading it
488. 00:38:28 but really it comes down to
489. 00:38:30 the
490. 00:38:31 perception the action in the will if you understand those basic ideas
491. 00:38:35 and actually apply them
492. 00:38:38 then
493. 00:38:39 You'll get their results, but I think that it almost when you first when you first presents it in the first section of the book
494. 00:38:45 He's like this is how I'm gonna lay this out. I'm gonna lay it down in these three sections
495. 00:38:48 That section alone is really all of the core content that you would need to apply
496. 00:38:53 But the rest of the authors wouldn't do that
497. 00:38:55 Well, tell me what you're gonna do just do it
498. 00:38:58 I generally would agree
499. 00:39:00 But I feel like the rest of this book
500. 00:39:02 And even with the title the obstacles the way I think that's part of the reason I had trouble picking it up and reading it is like
501. 00:39:07 I don't want to read about obstacles like yeah
502. 00:39:10 Why do I want to why do I want to be reminded of how hard things are
503. 00:39:13 But then the rest of the book I feel like he does a really really good job of
504. 00:39:17 It's almost like a pep rally. It's it's encouraging you to
505. 00:39:21 Go ahead and try this stuff because it does actually look look it worked for Rockefeller
506. 00:39:25 It worked for Teddy Roosevelt. It worked for Ulysses Grant. It worked for all these other people. It will work for you
507. 00:39:31 so
508. 00:39:33 I don't know. I really I really like it, but he really the son the whole
509. 00:39:37 Thing can kind of be encapsulated. I believe
510. 00:39:41 And another quote that he had in the books is the path of least resistance is a terrible teacher
511. 00:39:46 I've heard it said another way resist the path of least resistance. Yeah, because it's it's not going to lead you anywhere that obstacle
512. 00:39:52 Is the way that's the way to the future that you want
513. 00:39:55 I want to come back to the parallel of the productivity apps because
514. 00:40:01 for example, I'm a heavy omnifocus user and
515. 00:40:06 That particular tool is one that I write about quite a bit
516. 00:40:11 And like you mentioned those articles are always the heavy ones that as far as hits go and
517. 00:40:16 With my blog that's no different if I write about omnifocus or a productivity tool of any kind then
518. 00:40:22 It's easily three and four times a number of clicks that come in on that
519. 00:40:25 It's just the way it works and I think some of that has to do with
520. 00:40:30 people that are looking for
521. 00:40:33 a solution
522. 00:40:35 to a
523. 00:40:36 Problem that they don't want to define
524. 00:40:39 what I what I mean by that is that there's
525. 00:40:45 An issue at stake in that they need to make a decision on how they want to operate and they need to decide
526. 00:40:52 How do you want to use a task manager?
527. 00:40:55 That's not an easy thing to answer. Right and it's not simple to
528. 00:40:59 Just decide that I want a list maker and I want to be able to look at a list in
529. 00:41:05 context form like
530. 00:41:07 if that's all you want then
531. 00:41:10 You don't need omnifocus and today I've told three people that they should not buy omnifocus
532. 00:41:15 I'm sorry omnifocus, but it's just the way it works because
533. 00:41:18 They are new to gtd and they're new to list making in a digital format
534. 00:41:25 They don't need on that. It's a different mindset. You can't handle that level of
535. 00:41:31 Complexity in that it's definitely a power user tool
536. 00:41:36 And if you don't have the mindset to work with something on that level then it doesn't work a lot of this
537. 00:41:42 obstacle mindset is the same in that
538. 00:41:45 You really have to make the decision
539. 00:41:48 to see obstacles
540. 00:41:50 as they are and not as
541. 00:41:52 Doom and gloom like you have to make the decision to have the mindset like you have to understand
542. 00:41:58 That this is a way of thinking you need to see it as
543. 00:42:03 What it is make a decision to act on it and then keep going like don't let up like just keep pressing on
544. 00:42:09 He gives the the story of
545. 00:42:12 Abraham Lincoln and how
546. 00:42:14 He dealt with all kinds of depression and constant internal struggles
547. 00:42:18 You know, we've talked a lot about
548. 00:42:19 These guys who had all the external stuff
549. 00:42:22 I think he was the one that he brought up that had a lot of the internal that
550. 00:42:25 I'd really resonated with not because I've dealt with the same things
551. 00:42:29 But it just made a lot of sense to me from a mental and mindset standpoint, but
552. 00:42:34 Abe Lincoln dealt with an awful lot. We have
553. 00:42:37 created a legend out of him, but he
554. 00:42:41 dealt with an awful lot of internal struggles between the depression and being ridiculed and there was a lot of that that he
555. 00:42:48 Saw as highly negative and he took that and used it to his advantage when he was president
556. 00:42:55 Because a lot of really bad things happened while he was president
557. 00:42:58 And he didn't really freak out because he's like, oh, it's just this is this is how you deal with it
558. 00:43:03 Like this is what's going on and yeah, what I need to do isn't going to be a good thing like there is no
559. 00:43:08 good thing to do here
560. 00:43:10 but he's essentially picking between two bads and
561. 00:43:14 He had dealt with that so much that he was a pro at it as
562. 00:43:19 Morbid is that is but he he was able to deal with it because he was used to that internal
563. 00:43:26 struggle and I think there's a lot of that decision of
564. 00:43:29 Let's just decide that I'm going to see things this way
565. 00:43:32 Much the same way we need to make decisions on a lot of the other deals going on our lives with you know, clear down to what after you use
566. 00:43:39 You just have to make a decision on what you want to do with the situation up front and then act on that and not get too
567. 00:43:46 Ben out of shape over it
568. 00:43:48 Yeah, and the abraham lincoln thing is really interesting because it's pretty well documented all of the failures that he had
569. 00:43:55 But right it was really cool about this book was like you mentioned the focus on the fact that he had to deal with the depression as well
570. 00:44:02 So in addition to all the external things he also had to come overcome a bunch of internal things
571. 00:44:08 So I thought that was
572. 00:44:11 That was really
573. 00:44:12 Really brought new light to a little bit of that I knew about
574. 00:44:16 Abraham Abraham Lincoln and gave me a ton more respect for
575. 00:44:21 how he overcame his his circumstances
576. 00:44:23 To become you know a history would call one of the greatest presidents of the united states in in history
577. 00:44:30 Yeah, so
578. 00:44:32 What did you because I struggle with this question mike someone to make you answer first
579. 00:44:36 Action items what?
580. 00:44:39 When you were going through this, what did you see that stood out with to you that you needed to take action on?
581. 00:44:46 Well, the number one thing and this is kind of hard for me to admit
582. 00:44:51 but when things happen that are outside of the
583. 00:44:56 schedule or the system I
584. 00:44:59 Am going to try my hardest
585. 00:45:02 to not look at those things as negative
586. 00:45:06 Uh, I'm a fairly passionate person by nature not extroverted at all, but definitely passionate
587. 00:45:13 And so when stuff happens that I don't like I can quickly become emotional and then
588. 00:45:18 Once the emotions kick in it's kind of downhill from there
589. 00:45:22 Uh, I I make it sound like I've got a huge problem with this
590. 00:45:26 I think I do a fairly decent job of reeling it in but I
591. 00:45:29 Realize that that stuff does happen to me and it's kind of my default
592. 00:45:33 um
593. 00:45:35 My default reaction when things happen even if it doesn't escalate to the point where I actually do something that I regret
594. 00:45:42 Or I waste a bunch of time feeling a certain way
595. 00:45:44 I recognize that this does happen more often than I want it to so
596. 00:45:48 My big takeaway from this is to really try to whenever anything happens
597. 00:45:53 Just tell myself this is this is okay. Let's let's look at this for what it really is and find the opportunity
598. 00:46:00 In this situation to move things forward
599. 00:46:03 I like that and that's not easy to do
600. 00:46:07 To just change the way you think of things
601. 00:46:10 Definitely not this is going to be a process. So if you ask me next time what the follow-up is
602. 00:46:14 Probably still going to be struggling with this one. That's why I struggled with action items on this because it's like, okay
603. 00:46:19 Here you go think this way
604. 00:46:21 well
605. 00:46:23 Okay
606. 00:46:25 All right, I'll get on that and
607. 00:46:28 I really came at this with
608. 00:46:31 uh, I was trying to be humble with it because I know that I really really struggle with this of
609. 00:46:38 Taking the time to think it through because I I operate off of my intuition a lot and
610. 00:46:44 Just kind of run with my feelings on things because I've
611. 00:46:48 Kind of devi- I've intentionally developed that over time
612. 00:46:51 so that I can make quick decisions and
613. 00:46:54 That's only going to play out even more with some of the business decisions. I'm making here recently because it's going to put me in a spot where
614. 00:47:02 I need to make
615. 00:47:05 Very big business decisions very very quickly and that's a good thing for me in the long run
616. 00:47:11 But at the same time it means that
617. 00:47:13 Uh, I'm going to need to learn to pause a little bit because there's a lot of these things that can become very big obstacles as
618. 00:47:19 Ryan is spelling out here. So the the thing that I want to take away from this is pausing
619. 00:47:25 Because I move so darn fast that it's too fast in a lot of cases
620. 00:47:32 As far as work goes, it's a very good thing but outside of that I know that I tend to
621. 00:47:37 Do things way too quick
622. 00:47:40 So the the thing that I want to try to do and I'm like you this is going to be a challenge
623. 00:47:45 I'm going to fail at this a lot
624. 00:47:47 Is whenever something happens and I would normally
625. 00:47:51 react negatively is trying to pause and take a few seconds to think it through before something comes out of my mouth
626. 00:48:00 So as my attempt here is to
627. 00:48:02 Use that pause situation before I act on it so that I can think it through and see
628. 00:48:08 What are can I see this in a positive light?
629. 00:48:11 Can I look for the positive less lessons out of this and then get going on it in
630. 00:48:15 A better way than I normally would have in my immediate reaction
631. 00:48:20 if
632. 00:48:22 That can be related to it all
633. 00:48:24 Yeah, I like uh, I like your term for that pausing that makes makes a lot of sense
634. 00:48:29 So
635. 00:48:30 Rating, how would you rate this mic?
636. 00:48:32 Oh easy five stars
637. 00:48:35 Yeah, this is uh, this is in my opinion
638. 00:48:38 and maybe just because of where I am and
639. 00:48:41 Uh, in my particular situation, but this book really spoke to me and I actually read the whole thing
640. 00:48:48 In one day. I just could not put this all down. So it's one of my favorite books of all time
641. 00:48:53 Nice. Nice. I was not
642. 00:48:57 that
643. 00:48:57 Quick with it, but I did go through it in about four days, which I don't read that fast. So
644. 00:49:03 That'll tell you something, but
645. 00:49:05 Uh, as far as rating on my end, I was gonna give it a four
646. 00:49:09 That's where I was gonna land on it and the only reason I'm not going
647. 00:49:12 Five on it because I felt like it did get a bit long and there were parts in it that I felt like he was beating a dead horse
648. 00:49:18 It's like come on. Let's go on. Let's keep going. So I felt like there were some situations that he could have
649. 00:49:24 shortened and
650. 00:49:26 It it was kind of difficult to keep going in some places. So that's purely my preference
651. 00:49:32 So I would still highly recommend it because I think that his style is very
652. 00:49:37 Relatable and I think he's very easy to read it. Just for me personally
653. 00:49:42 I wanted him to slow down and well not slow down but to get through things a little bit quicker
654. 00:49:46 So that's the only reason I'm giving it a four out of five. Yeah, that's that's fair and to be honest
655. 00:49:51 That's kind of what I anticipated. I would do when I picked this book
656. 00:49:55 I was completely blown away and very pleasantly surprised by this book. So
657. 00:50:00 This is really like five plus plus plus stars for me
658. 00:50:04 To say
659. 00:50:05 Well you can also tell me how about that
660. 00:50:07 Yeah, sure that that works
661. 00:50:10 But uh, but yeah, this this was uh
662. 00:50:12 A great book for for me. So definitely five stars for me
663. 00:50:16 cool
664. 00:50:18 So books coming up
665. 00:50:20 we're gonna step into
666. 00:50:23 Essentialism by Greg
667. 00:50:25 McYown
668. 00:50:27 McYown
669. 00:50:28 Have we figured out how to say it yet? No, we probably should by next time
670. 00:50:31 It's true. Well, it's called i'm Greg. Okay. So it's by Greg
671. 00:50:35 If you look up essentialism by Greg, I'm sure you'll get there
672. 00:50:39 Uh, or he just click the link in the show notes
673. 00:50:41 That'd be the easier way to do it
674. 00:50:43 And then what did you have you picked a book for after that so that he did you did threw it through it on there
675. 00:50:49 Uh, this is one that I recently found out about but I am really really interested in
676. 00:50:54 The more of less by Joshua Becker
677. 00:50:57 That'll be a good follow-up to essentialism
678. 00:51:00 Yeah, because I feel like those two might be somewhat
679. 00:51:03 So i'm not gonna lie. I just finished reading essentialism. I couldn't help myself. So I got to start so
680. 00:51:09 We could record that one right now if you want
681. 00:51:12 Like I might read it first
682. 00:51:15 Okay, that'd be good
683. 00:51:16 But no, that'll be a good follow-up. So that'll be
684. 00:51:19 The following so we're doing essentialism next and then the more of less following that
685. 00:51:25 So by the end of the next two podcast episodes, we'll both have a hundred items or less in our possession and live in tiny houses, right?
686. 00:51:31 Nope
687. 00:51:34 I have too many books. I want to keep around for that. That's true. That's true. Okay, fair enough
688. 00:51:40 We should probably we should probably do that at some point a
689. 00:51:42 Show on how we read books because I have a feeling they're
690. 00:51:46 Because there's a lot of ways to do that. There's not like you don't just sit down and read a book like it doesn't work that way
691. 00:51:50 True. Yeah, we should definitely do that
692. 00:51:52 So not that would deviate a little bit from what we normally do, but that would be interesting at least
693. 00:51:58 So for the listeners if you're interested in that let us know and we'll see what we can do about that