51: Great at Work by Morten Hansen

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1. 00:00:00 So big question of the day Mike
2. 00:00:02 Who won the draft? I haven't looked oh good question last time I looked I was I was ahead of you, but barely show results
3. 00:00:11 Oh, you beat me by one vote did I that's not even fair?
4. 00:00:17 One vote. I don't believe I voted by the way. You didn't know I abstained. Oh, so you're gonna beat me by two votes
5. 00:00:25 Well, I didn't I didn't know what the official rules were to vote for yourself. Well, I suppose you could vote for me
6. 00:00:31 You know that would that would make it a tie I
7. 00:00:33 Don't have it so where you can see who voted maybe if the minus the end of absence maybe
8. 00:00:41 I'll just take my my crown as the 2018 bookworm literary champion and
9. 00:00:47 Leave the margin of victory to your imagination. Well, thanks everybody for voting. That was a fun episode
10. 00:00:54 We got some pretty good feedback on that and I was really happy with the way it turned out
11. 00:00:59 I was nervous about doing it because it was a different format than what we normally do and I was concerned by condensing the books down into such a
12. 00:01:06 short synopsis we were gonna
13. 00:01:08 lose some of the
14. 00:01:10 magic of bookworm but
15. 00:01:12 Based on what people have told me anyways, it sounds like that's wasn't the case that they still got a lot out of it
16. 00:01:18 Which is awesome. Yeah, I have a few friends that
17. 00:01:21 they are loyal bookworm listeners and
18. 00:01:24 We're pretty excited about it just because they felt like they could get a quick overview of a whole bunch of books all at once so
19. 00:01:31 Hopefully I mean that was our goal. So hopefully it worked out that way. That's that's the intent anyway
20. 00:01:37 How are we doing on the bookworm?
21. 00:01:39 Shirts they are officially going to print I think as of yesterday. They were 20 of them sold the goal was 12
22. 00:01:45 Which is pretty good. I was looking at Austin Clean the author of steal like an artist. You feel like at his profile
23. 00:01:51 It's like New York Times best-selling author of three different books
24. 00:01:53 He had a campaign that was going and it ended as we're recording this a couple days ago
25. 00:01:58 So it overlapped a thar is a little bit and if you scroll down to the bottom you would see because of the tag books that
26. 00:02:04 His was one of the suggested other shirts that you could support. Yeah, and he ended up getting like
27. 00:02:09 36 total shirts that he sold and it's not the only time he's released this shirt
28. 00:02:14 So when you go to it now you'll see the total number that he's ever sold
29. 00:02:18 But when I saw that I was like we got to be at Austin Clean
30. 00:02:21 36
31. 00:02:24 And I think we'll get there
32. 00:02:25 I mean we've got almost two weeks left as we're recording this right on the campaign we gave out a free shirt to
33. 00:02:32 a club member and
34. 00:02:35 When we hit 25 we'll get another free code. So
35. 00:02:37 Help us help us reach that that milestone also at 25 we get paid
36. 00:02:44 A percentage of the proceeds. So it's not gonna be a lot
37. 00:02:49 I know but that's really not the point. I just wanted a bookworm shirt, which is kind of why I did it
38. 00:02:53 But the link will be in the show notes. It's a bookworm dot FM slash shirt, right? That's the re-rekt. Yes
39. 00:02:59 So bookworm dot FM slash shirt. Yep. Cool. Yep. So you can go there and you can get your shirts prior to July 26th
40. 00:03:06 I believe and
41. 00:03:08 Yeah, you'll be supporting bookworm. You'll be building your nerd cred and you'll be the coolest cat in your local library
42. 00:03:14 Paul was the winner of the raffle congratulations Paul. What else we got here you so okay?
43. 00:03:21 So we didn't talk about this last time. I don't remember if
44. 00:03:25 This had actually happened yet or not as of the recording date
45. 00:03:30 So we didn't talk about it
46. 00:03:32 but for bookworm listeners, you know, we now have a celebrity on this show and
47. 00:03:39 Depending on how you look at it, but Mike is now on he's a part of the relay FM family
48. 00:03:45 He is now the co-host of free agents. I was I was pretty excited whenever I found out you were gonna be doing this
49. 00:03:51 It seems like it'd be a great fit for you Mike. So
50. 00:03:53 Mike is now on relay. That's still amazing to me. I am a quote-unquote professional podcaster. I guess
51. 00:04:00 Yeah, so
52. 00:04:03 Kind of a long story, but I got hooked up with David Sparks and I obviously knew who David was
53. 00:04:09 He kind of discovered me through bookworm, which is kind of cool. I was on Mac power users a couple months ago and
54. 00:04:15 Yeah, he Jason Snell the former co-host of free agents
55. 00:04:21 Basically said everything he wanted to say on the topic David and I were going back and forth about
56. 00:04:26 Working on some some project and some form in the future and then he said that you know
57. 00:04:32 There's an opening on free agents. I think you might be a good fit you interested and I said yes
58. 00:04:37 But I'm not technically a quote-unquote free agent. I mean I work for a company
59. 00:04:42 I got some different side stuff that I do, but I'm not your traditional
60. 00:04:46 freelancer type person who's
61. 00:04:48 Completely in control of everything that they do. I mean there's there's people that I report to and stuff like that
62. 00:04:55 but
63. 00:04:56 It's actually been really interesting because I love I love the show I've been listening to it forever
64. 00:05:00 I'm excited to contribute to it and I was talking to you before we hop on the call here
65. 00:05:05 there's a
66. 00:05:07 Discourse form which is part of the Mac power users form that you put together
67. 00:05:10 and there's a whole section and they're devoted to the free agents podcast and somebody who listened to the show put together a poll and the
68. 00:05:16 options were I'm a free agent I want to be a free agent or I'm completely happy working for the man and
69. 00:05:22 as it was just they put it up yesterday I think as we're recording this and
70. 00:05:27 When I last checked it like 50% of the responses where I'm completely happy working for the man
71. 00:05:33 And a lot of people were chiming in with stuff like you know the things that you talk about on free agents
72. 00:05:37 I can apply to my situation even though I'm not looking to quote unquote become a a free agent
73. 00:05:42 Necessarily which I think is really cool. I think that's really the whole idea behind the show is
74. 00:05:46 Designing your life the way that you want it so that you have control over the things that you want to control
75. 00:05:52 And so if you find yourself in a situation where you're working for a boss that you don't like
76. 00:05:56 Maybe that maybe that manifests as I need to make that leap
77. 00:06:00 I need to become a quote-unquote free agent just so I can I can bet on myself now it was the title of the first episode
78. 00:06:06 I did
79. 00:06:07 But also
80. 00:06:07 I mean you could be in a situation where things are going pretty good
81. 00:06:10 And there's just a few things that you want to tweak and I think that there's definitely a lot in that show that
82. 00:06:14 It could apply to that person as well
83. 00:06:16 So it's been cool to see the the feedback that I've gotten people seem to be happy with me as the the new co-host
84. 00:06:22 I try to ignore the people who are unhappy that I'm not Jason Snell or Casey West who everybody
85. 00:06:28 I guess thought was gonna be the the logical choice for the co-host
86. 00:06:31 But yeah, it's it's a lot of fun and it's a it's a thrill to be on relay
87. 00:06:35 It's a thrill to work with with David who's long been you know, I've called him my inner one of my internet heroes
88. 00:06:40 So it's a lot of fun. Yeah, I've I've been a longtime listener of free agents
89. 00:06:45 I remember when it first came out and David was sharing it on all of his respective, you know media outlets and
90. 00:06:53 tuned in right away and have been listening, I don't think I've caught every episode, but I've caught a lot of them and
91. 00:06:59 That has a lot to do with
92. 00:07:02 You know it coming out at about the time that I was becoming a free agent or
93. 00:07:06 you know, it was was neck deep in it at that point and
94. 00:07:10 It's been a pretty inspiring show. It's taught me a lot and I'm excited to see you
95. 00:07:16 Join that. I know you don't really think of yourself as a a free agent, but you definitely set your own
96. 00:07:22 I marched to the beat of my own drum. That's for sure. Yeah, like you can set your own schedule
97. 00:07:26 You can set your own blah blah blah, but there is a company that you work for but at the same time like you can if you think it through
98. 00:07:33 Treat that as you know the quote unquote free agent concept. Yep, and I think you do a pretty good job of that
99. 00:07:40 Thank you. Yeah, that's that's what I'm what I'm learning and what I'm kind of figuring out
100. 00:07:45 You know, we've only recorded a couple of episodes
101. 00:07:47 But I do feel that the more I get entrenched in this the more comfortable
102. 00:07:53 I'll become and really like from the very beginning
103. 00:07:57 I felt like I had something to contribute or I wouldn't have said yes
104. 00:08:00 And I think that there's a lot of people who can benefit from my experience, you know, you can learn from my mistakes
105. 00:08:05 That's really the goal behind pretty much everything that I do, you know
106. 00:08:10 I've mentioned before on this podcast that like my life theme help people
107. 00:08:15 Answer the question. Why am I here by inspiring or encouraging and teaching them how to
108. 00:08:18 Discover their destiny connect to their calling and live the life they were created for now your definition is going to be a little bit different than mine
109. 00:08:23 but the process is still going to be the same and
110. 00:08:26 I guess what I'm discovering and free agents is helping me to realize is that nothing is so cut and dry as like you fit into
111. 00:08:33 One of these boxes. I've learned anything over the last several years. It said I don't fit in any boxes
112. 00:08:38 And so free agency is no different. I mean technically, you know
113. 00:08:43 I'm not quote-unquote a free agent
114. 00:08:45 But I recognize that in a lot of ways I am free agent and there's a lot of things that I've experienced and that I've learned from that
115. 00:08:50 A lot of people can benefit from even if their situation isn't exactly the same as mine
116. 00:08:55 Well, I'm super happy for you and I'm definitely listening for sure you can count on that and I may scream
117. 00:09:01 Once in a while say Mike no, we got to talk about that
118. 00:09:04 I may yell at you through the the earbuds once in a while just because I can help myself
119. 00:09:09 I do that with almost every podcast. It seems like I'm yelling at somebody in my head every time I listen
120. 00:09:13 No one even when I listen to my own so count on that for sure one interesting thing
121. 00:09:18 I noticed by the way an effect that bookworm has had in
122. 00:09:21 Episode 51 of free agents which as a record this was just published I put together the the links for that episode. I
123. 00:09:29 referenced so many books
124. 00:09:31 It was ridiculous. I went back and I looked through like how do they do the links for the previous episodes?
125. 00:09:37 There really aren't that many links right and then all of a sudden the episode that we're talking about content
126. 00:09:41 I've got like 10 different books that I've referenced yeah
127. 00:09:44 So thank you bookworm for giving me a bigger perspective
128. 00:09:47 Yeah, and I'll have another point about that when we get into
129. 00:09:50 Today's book but before I do that well first off congratulations
130. 00:09:55 Glad to see that you're on relay and I hope free agents continues to go well. So best of luck to you there
131. 00:10:00 Thank you. So if you're listening to this and you don't tune into free agents. We talk about a lot of concepts
132. 00:10:05 Through the books obviously like the connection that Mike just made there. So I would recommend tuning in
133. 00:10:11 It's it's a shorter
134. 00:10:14 Each show is a little bit shorter than was it half of how long bookworm is aren't they like 45 minutes or so 45 50 minutes?
135. 00:10:21 Yeah, definitely shorter than than your average bookworm episode
136. 00:10:25 So tune in for sure, but outside of podcasting as we're recording this next week next weekend
137. 00:10:33 Mike and I are gonna be in Illinois and we will be at max stock with
138. 00:10:40 Stickers right or do you have bookworm you better have bookmarks? I know how many bookmarks you ordered so we have to have
139. 00:10:45 Bookmark, I've got stickers too. So I think I got 200 stickers
140. 00:10:51 So I'll give you a hundred all of a hundred and we'll give some out
141. 00:10:53 I'm not sure how many people at max stock are gonna be bookworm listeners
142. 00:10:57 But if you are definitely come up and say hi to join myself. I'll be presenting
143. 00:11:02 I'm presenting on the Apple users guide to personal productivity
144. 00:11:06 I mean be talking about five different pieces of a personal productivity system and why I think Apple technology really is better
145. 00:11:13 Designed than anything else out there for helping you be more productive
146. 00:11:16 As I've been working on this presentation
147. 00:11:18 I realized that like when I submitted the idea it sounded great and I'm like oh yeah
148. 00:11:23 I know exactly what I'm gonna do and now that's gonna closer and I'm working on the slide deck and what I'm gonna say and all that
149. 00:11:28 I recognize that like there is so much that I could cover here
150. 00:11:33 And it's gonna be hard to bring it down to 20 minutes now fortunately. I have a deep dive also
151. 00:11:36 So I have a feeling that 20 minute presentation is gonna be kind of like the the advantages that Apple hardware and software give you
152. 00:11:45 And some specific workflows use cases on like how you can do this to be more effective
153. 00:11:49 Why this will make you more productive and then the deep dive is just gonna be like
154. 00:11:54 rapid fire one right after the other all of these different tools
155. 00:11:59 services workflows that I've used on Apple devices to be more productive because a lot of these things like you can use them in a
156. 00:12:07 Lot of different situations and I think the my thought at the moment anyways is that the best way to
157. 00:12:12 To help people see the value of these things is to show examples of me using it
158. 00:12:17 Not saying like this is the way you have to do it sort of a thing
159. 00:12:20 but just a whole bunch of examples of things like
160. 00:12:22 Popclip for example or moon stuff like that the reflection workflow that I do for journaling things like that just to give people some ideas
161. 00:12:30 So I'm pretty excited about my stock partially because you and I get to see each other again
162. 00:12:35 It's like the one time of the year that we can count on seeing each other. It's true. So I'm excited about that. There's a few friends
163. 00:12:40 Making the trip down with me as well. We'll be carpooling together and then there's a few like to use mics term internet heroes and
164. 00:12:50 Folks that we love who will be be there that we get to connect with so it's always a good time
165. 00:12:55 So if you haven't picked up tickets or haven't decided to go
166. 00:12:59 Go, you know hit us up come join us there, but didn't they do?
167. 00:13:04 I feel like I just saw something new come through in my email about this some there's yep
168. 00:13:10 They got something else so two things if you're listening to this
169. 00:13:14 You still probably have a couple of days to get your butt down to wood psycho annoy for max stack
170. 00:13:19 And if you do you can use the code productivity show
171. 00:13:22 Which is the one that they assign me as a speaker and you can save $70 off of the
172. 00:13:26 $250 weekend pass so it's a pretty big savings on the conference itself
173. 00:13:31 But if you can't get down there, there's also I saw a digital pass that they just announced so
174. 00:13:37 I believe that you're gonna be able to get all of the talks from the conference without physically being there if you can't make it
175. 00:13:44 But if you can make it it's awesome. It's a smaller conference
176. 00:13:47 It's a lot of fun a lot of really really smart people are there people much smarter than me
177. 00:13:53 Like Brett Terpster is gonna be presenting Adam Christensen
178. 00:13:57 Gene McDonald max bark. He's gonna be there David Sparks
179. 00:14:00 Don McAllister is gonna be there from screencast online
180. 00:14:04 Allison Sheridan
181. 00:14:06 Lots of people up in the in the Mac community and when I first went down there
182. 00:14:11 I was not quote-unquote a part of the Mac community yet. I had never gone to Mac world
183. 00:14:16 I really had done nothing in the online space. I just was three hours from my house and
184. 00:14:21 It was announced the year that they canceled Mac world in California
185. 00:14:25 And I was getting ready to go to that so I'm like all drive down and see what it's like
186. 00:14:28 But from the moment I got there
187. 00:14:30 I mean the Apple community is amazing. It doesn't matter if you don't know anybody
188. 00:14:34 You will know many people by the time that you leave everybody is opening and welcoming and it's just it's really cool
189. 00:14:40 I remember going down there and sitting with a group of guys that I've never met one of them is Dave Ginsburg from the
190. 00:14:45 suburban Chicago area Apple users group
191. 00:14:48 First time I went down there, you know, and I didn't know any of these guys
192. 00:14:51 I sat down a bunch of them and we left his friends
193. 00:14:53 So don't let the fact that you don't know anybody keep you from from coming to Mac stack
194. 00:14:58 It'll be a good time
195. 00:14:59 So for sure if you are listening to this and you're gonna be there come find us
196. 00:15:04 We we have goodies and we can hang out and talk because like Mike said you get to meet lots of new friends meet new people
197. 00:15:10 In some cases meet people you followed online for a long time
198. 00:15:13 So, you know, it's it's a fun time. So I I'm really looking forward to it. I suppose I should give the URL for this
199. 00:15:20 It's max.conference and Expo. So we'll we'll make sure that that gets in the show. Yeah, it's long to type
200. 00:15:24 Every time I try to hunt for it thankfully I picked that in at once so I can just type in like Mac S and it
201. 00:15:32 Autofills for me. No, so super super anyway. Yes link in the show notes to make that easier
202. 00:15:41 So all of that out of the way Mike you really jump into today's book. Let's do it your pick
203. 00:15:47 Yeah, today's book is great at work by Morton Hanson and I picked this one specifically because it was a
204. 00:15:54 listener recommendation, so I know we'll talk about this at the end but
205. 00:15:58 Go to club that bookworm.fm and vote for the books that you want us to cover
206. 00:16:03 We really do look at those sometimes, you know
207. 00:16:06 I'll pick something that isn't voted for just because I really want to talk to you about it
208. 00:16:11 Yeah, but our community is pretty awesome and I was looking at it today
209. 00:16:14 I've got another one picked here, which is based off of listener votes
210. 00:16:16 But this was a listener recommendation. It was the most requested book when I picked it for episode 50 and
211. 00:16:23 I can say that I'm glad that I did. This is a really cool book if you like
212. 00:16:28 Research-based information. He's got tons of studies
213. 00:16:33 He's got specific examples and percentages behind every claim that he makes
214. 00:16:38 It's really interesting like in the even in the introduction he talks about how 66% of
215. 00:16:43 Individual performance is determined by seven individual work smart practices
216. 00:16:49 Which he then talks about in the rest of rest of the book
217. 00:16:52 But like right there. He's not saying like this these are the things that are going to determine your personal professional success
218. 00:16:59 Which is what most people would say something along those lines like do these things and you'll be successful
219. 00:17:02 I just know it, you know trust me
220. 00:17:04 He says no 66%
221. 00:17:06 exactly
222. 00:17:08 Is determined by these practices so get good at these things and it's you know
223. 00:17:12 this is one thing that I really appreciated in his book because
224. 00:17:15 so many times
225. 00:17:17 You you read especially with and I'll just make a confession here. I was super nervous about reading this
226. 00:17:22 the reason being
227. 00:17:25 That whenever I read the bio for Morton Hanson that he's a management professor at University of California Berkeley
228. 00:17:31 He's a faculty member of Apple University Apple, you know
229. 00:17:35 he's he's going through these credentials of like PhDs and he's a scholar and he's all this stuff like okay
230. 00:17:42 most of the time, you know stereotypically when we go through these books they're ones that I don't always enjoy just because
231. 00:17:49 it seems like they want to just talk about the research over and over and over again and it gets kind of boring and
232. 00:17:56 mundane to me however
233. 00:17:58 Mr. Hanson does a wonderful job of
234. 00:18:01 Taking you through like here's the research we did
235. 00:18:05 but that's like
236. 00:18:07 Three or four pages that he takes you through like what they did in order to get the data for the rest of the book
237. 00:18:14 And the rest of the book is talking about each principle
238. 00:18:16 But he doesn't say this will make you more successfully says this will increase your success by 15%
239. 00:18:22 Yep, very exact if you're if you're the 97th percentile on part one
240. 00:18:27 Then you are 60% more successful. Okay, so you have some pretty detailed numbers here and
241. 00:18:33 He's not just saying, you know, this is the way this all works like he has measurements for how much
242. 00:18:38 More successful you are based on the data that people collected on he's got the pedigree to make these claims to I mean true
243. 00:18:45 He initially his claim to fame was that he co-authored good to great, right? That's the one with Jim Collins
244. 00:18:51 It's on my bookshelf over here. I had to look at it. Yes
245. 00:18:54 Yeah, so good to great is a and and all of the other books in that series like built to last and great by choice
246. 00:19:01 I think is another one like those kind of focus on what makes organizations or companies successful and great at work
247. 00:19:08 He says this in the first section. This is really about what you can do as an individual
248. 00:19:12 So it doesn't matter if you run your own company
249. 00:19:15 Like these are things that you can apply to your personal life
250. 00:19:18 And he has a lot of different stories of people who were not quote-unquote decision-makers in their organizations
251. 00:19:24 And how they apply this which are really cool. So he has these
252. 00:19:27 seven
253. 00:19:29 Points and I guess we could just go through each one. It's in two different parts first part being taking care of yourself essentially
254. 00:19:35 Yep
255. 00:19:37 working with yourself how to handle working yourself and then part two just what you would expect working with other people and
256. 00:19:44 I I will admit that I appreciated that there were four of the seven on working on yourself and two or three on working for
257. 00:19:54 Working with others. So I for whatever reason I was I was happy that that was the breakdown
258. 00:19:59 Yeah, so part one mastering your own work. That's where four of them
259. 00:20:03 Like you mentioned are located part two mastering work with others three of them there
260. 00:20:08 Then there's a part three which I may or may not have a rant on mastering your work life
261. 00:20:12 And there's one really section underneath that and then an epilogue. So by the time you get to that point
262. 00:20:19 He's basically said everything that he's going to say right although
263. 00:20:23 Work life, you know, we'll put a pin in that for now
264. 00:20:25 So part one mastering your own work and the first habit here is do less than obsess. I love this idea
265. 00:20:33 I mean it sounds very simple, but he breaks it down that there are four different types or groups of people
266. 00:20:39 There's the accept more and then coast group
267. 00:20:42 which is the worst and then
268. 00:20:45 Level up from that I guess if you were to create a pyramid or a hierarchy do less no stress
269. 00:20:53 Okay, and I think that this is interesting this book because this is the one if you're not careful about how you read
270. 00:21:00 A lot of the books that are in the productivity space right now
271. 00:21:03 Essentialism the power of less things like that
272. 00:21:06 The joshua becker one that we covered for bookworm
273. 00:21:09 like
274. 00:21:11 You can think that less is ideal and and it makes sense
275. 00:21:15 You know if you have less to do then you're not going to stress about things and that's
276. 00:21:18 That's good
277. 00:21:20 But it's not the the highest level that more than more than handsome describes here and I tend to agree with him
278. 00:21:25 I think all right. So that's that's level two level three do more than stress
279. 00:21:29 This is where a lot of people get stuck and then from here obviously you've got two directions
280. 00:21:33 You can go you can you can do less
281. 00:21:36 With no stress you can you can go down a level or you can figure out how to do better
282. 00:21:40 And that's really what the last level is is do less than obsess so it's not the fact that
283. 00:21:46 You're doing less in terms of work. It's that you're focusing on less
284. 00:21:51 Priorities and then you are obsessing about these things doing them to the very best of your ability
285. 00:21:56 and creating excellent
286. 00:21:59 Products excellent work
287. 00:22:01 And maybe that we're creating like that's the wrong word to use there because I think when you hear creating you can think of like well
288. 00:22:06 Writers or artists or things like that, you know, you don't have to be a podcast
289. 00:22:10 You don't have to be a blogger
290. 00:22:12 You don't have to be a content creator in order to understand this idea
291. 00:22:16 So I just want to make that point clear
292. 00:22:18 But that's really the gold standard and that's what we should be shooting for according to morton hanson
293. 00:22:23 And I think I agree. What about you? I would agree and I I would say that this particular
294. 00:22:28 Section I I read it. I don't know 15 20 minutes. I read this whole section and I set it down
295. 00:22:36 Stared out the window because this was
296. 00:22:40 I think I finished reading it maybe like 6 15 in the morning. So no one was up yet and I'm looking out the window watching
297. 00:22:46 uh, the sun coming up and
298. 00:22:49 had a bit of a crisis moment mic
299. 00:22:52 and
300. 00:22:53 Realized that you know one of the things I talk about
301. 00:22:56 Frequently is all the different arenas that I work in and the things that I do
302. 00:23:01 between podcasting and running communities and
303. 00:23:05 Trying to do some writing online
304. 00:23:08 Managing clients doing development work, you know doing it work. I have a lot and
305. 00:23:14 This section kind of led me to the point where I was trying to determine
306. 00:23:18 Can I pick three?
307. 00:23:21 That to work on because I could easily see how I could plan out my weeks and days such that I could handle three
308. 00:23:28 decent endeavors, but
309. 00:23:31 Then I start looking at things like well my pro course business the web development side of things like it
310. 00:23:37 It kind of falls into two camps by itself
311. 00:23:39 Okay, well maybe getting down to three doesn't work because if I try to get down to three then I have to do things like cut bookworm
312. 00:23:47 And I don't want to do that. So
313. 00:23:49 Okay, this isn't gonna work out so well. So
314. 00:23:52 what I what I've been doing is instead of
315. 00:23:55 And I I don't really have a good action item on this because I didn't really know what to do with it other than just keep it as a mindset
316. 00:24:03 and I
317. 00:24:06 It's a thing where
318. 00:24:07 I've been looking at what is it that we do like how do I go about building
319. 00:24:12 A bookworm episode to get it released like how does that process work?
320. 00:24:16 and
321. 00:24:18 We have some changes that we're gonna probably make tool to make that process simpler and easily easier at least on my end
322. 00:24:24 and
323. 00:24:25 There's also things with what I do in
324. 00:24:28 My pro course business from a client management stance that I can do to
325. 00:24:34 help with the process of getting projects up and moving quicker and
326. 00:24:39 Closing them out quicker too. So between those two
327. 00:24:42 like
328. 00:24:45 I think what I need to be focusing more on is doing less within those sectors
329. 00:24:49 Because I feel like I'm doing a lot of work that I shouldn't be and if I narrow down
330. 00:24:55 The specifics for each of those and then obsess over those particular pieces
331. 00:25:00 I think that's where I would have the biggest bang for my buck on this
332. 00:25:03 but I will say yes, so
333. 00:25:05 Section one right out of the gate. I was left on our back deck steering at the sunrise in a bit of a moment. So
334. 00:25:13 All right, I had a similar situation because I read this
335. 00:25:19 I was I was in the
336. 00:25:21 In the process of reading this when I did my call my personal retreats my once a quarter thinking day
337. 00:25:28 and
338. 00:25:30 I always ask myself three questions. What should I start doing?
339. 00:25:33 What should I stop doing? What should I keep doing?
340. 00:25:35 One of the things that I've implemented the last couple
341. 00:25:38 Last couple personal retreats is to pick at least one thing that I'm going to stop doing
342. 00:25:45 And so as I'm going through this
343. 00:25:48 I kind of had the same initial reaction you did is like well, I've got too much going on
344. 00:25:52 I need to just cut everything
345. 00:25:54 But I don't think that that's the right approach either
346. 00:25:57 I think that three is an arbitrary number. I don't know if he came up with that or if he came up with that
347. 00:26:01 I don't remember I think it's dangerous
348. 00:26:03 Okay, I think more important is to identify the things that are in alignment with
349. 00:26:10 Like I've mentioned my life theme and I said it even at the beginning of this episode
350. 00:26:14 So what are the things that are in complete alignment with your your life theme and then look at the way things are right now
351. 00:26:20 And figure out what changes you need to make
352. 00:26:23 That's one of my action items, which is something that I'm doing
353. 00:26:27 But it's something that I want to continue to think about doing as it pertains to everything that I'm involved in
354. 00:26:32 Is the next section he talks about redesigning your work
355. 00:26:35 So what are the things that I can do to redesign my work and really my life to the specifications that I want?
356. 00:26:43 How can I create the life that I want to live that I'm excited about living every single day when I wake up in the morning
357. 00:26:50 And regardless of your situation we talked about the free agency thing like you can apply that whether you are I quote unquote free agent
358. 00:26:56 whether you are
359. 00:26:57 Completely happy working for the man whether you are leading a team of discourse experts
360. 00:27:01 Like whatever it is
361. 00:27:04 But the I think the things that you select the number doesn't really matter
362. 00:27:07 But they have to be well, obviously you need to make sure that you have enough
363. 00:27:10 You have enough time you have enough energy willpower or whatever
364. 00:27:13 Motivation to do the things that you're committing yourself to and then also I would say or add to that that they should be
365. 00:27:19 In line with your unique ability
366. 00:27:21 So what is the thing that really makes you you that really brings you energy that brings you life
367. 00:27:26 If you're doing a bunch of things that aren't in line with your unique ability
368. 00:27:28 Those are the things that you should stop doing. That's where is it?
369. 00:27:32 Ocam or a cam's razor comes in
370. 00:27:35 Occam's razor. Occam's razor. Yeah, the simple solution is the best solution
371. 00:27:38 And taking that and applying it to the different things that you're committed to
372. 00:27:43 I mean if you view it that way
373. 00:27:45 And when you look at things
374. 00:27:47 Usually you'll you'll find one or two things that you're like, yeah, that's really not the right thing anymore
375. 00:27:52 That's not a great fit. That's something that should go on the quote-unquote chopping block
376. 00:27:55 You know, maybe you don't decommit from it right away
377. 00:27:58 But it's not something that at least right now you can tell like this is kind of run its course
378. 00:28:03 But you have to achieve some distance in order to to view those things the right way
379. 00:28:07 And it doesn't matter if you take a whole day for a personal retreat like I did or you have that moment of clarity at
380. 00:28:12 The morning when you finish the book like you do need to have that aha moment though
381. 00:28:17 And I think if you're looking for it, it's it's not that rare. Yeah, I think that's there's some valid points in there. I think
382. 00:28:23 So much of what we do is building these new adventures or at least I do
383. 00:28:29 Like I build a lot of this new stuff
384. 00:28:30 But I'm not always the best at building it efficiently at first
385. 00:28:34 Which you know, I would almost argue that when you first get something launched you just get it out the door and then not worry about
386. 00:28:41 efficiency right away and then over time you can start to refine it and and make it better like that to me seems like the point here that I'm trying to
387. 00:28:49 To take on but regardless I think
388. 00:28:53 You know, and this is something we talk about on bookworm a lot like so many of these books
389. 00:28:57 My wife tends to call them just a repeat with a different author. Yep. Like it's it's a lot of the same just in a different voice
390. 00:29:04 And I think that's okay to a point because this concept of do less than obsess
391. 00:29:10 We have talked about this before like the whole minimalism. We read a whole book on that and
392. 00:29:15 Even with like essentialism it like it's almost an entire book on this one point
393. 00:29:20 we've talked about this before mic and
394. 00:29:23 Yet here we are reading another book talking about this concept. He throws some numbers at it has some data behind it
395. 00:29:29 Maybe that's different, but at the same time, okay. Well
396. 00:29:32 This this struck me different for some whatever reason. I'm in a different season at this point
397. 00:29:38 Hearing it from somebody else with a different take on it. I don't know
398. 00:29:41 It does have that ability so as much as for some folks like to rail on these things being
399. 00:29:47 You know rinse and repeat
400. 00:29:50 There's something to be said for the time between them and building across them. I think when it comes to
401. 00:29:56 Things like reading a book bookworm
402. 00:30:00 Specifically like because we read so many books
403. 00:30:04 We tend to think that if we've heard something once we should instantly absorb it and get it
404. 00:30:11 But that's not the case. Maybe it's just me. Maybe i'm just dense
405. 00:30:14 Totally that's totally it right there
406. 00:30:17 But I mean like I have to hear this stuff over and over and over again and my kids do too by the way
407. 00:30:21 But I think that's kind of human nature that you have to hear these things over and over and over again in a different book that I was reading
408. 00:30:28 Somebody had said it this way that like when you are communicating your vision
409. 00:30:33 To your team
410. 00:30:35 You have to say it over and over and over again
411. 00:30:38 Until the point where the people who hear you say it over and over and over again
412. 00:30:43 They're getting sick of hearing you say it like they're actively complaining about it because it's only when they are actively complaining about it
413. 00:30:50 That they've finally started to get it
414. 00:30:52 And I think that that definitely applies in my own life as well. So yeah, you know, I read a book and it talks about minimalism
415. 00:31:00 It talks about essentialism it talks about quit doing so much stuff and just focus on the things that you really want to do well
416. 00:31:06 I think that's the principle here. You know choose a few priorities and dedicate your efforts towards excelling at them
417. 00:31:10 But if you look at what you're committed to what you're currently doing, that's where you can tell whether you are really
418. 00:31:17 Hearing it, you know, whether you're
419. 00:31:20 Listening to understand or it's just going in one year and out the other like what change does it affect in your life?
420. 00:31:27 And even if you've totally mastered this this this is one of the seven points. So this is a great reminder
421. 00:31:32 Yeah, it was well worth it. I think you could probably tell this particular section struck us both
422. 00:31:36 So it was it was one of my favorite parts of the book
423. 00:31:41 but alas we need to to move on here part two
424. 00:31:44 redesigning your work. Yeah, and
425. 00:31:47 There was some interesting stories on this one. I think this was a section where I I kind of had a hard time
426. 00:31:55 grasping how I would apply this one
427. 00:31:58 but at the same time I totally get that
428. 00:32:02 The concept is one that I should keep in mind. So that's philosophy being one that
429. 00:32:08 If you're not having success in the way that you're doing things right now
430. 00:32:13 Maybe consider changing that and altering it and what was the the story? It was the about the principle, right?
431. 00:32:21 Yep, the story goes that his particular school was
432. 00:32:24 Slowly losing ranking which meant that you know the education side of things that means they start to lose funding
433. 00:32:31 And he had this idea to flip the whole school system to have teachers record video of their lectures
434. 00:32:39 Have the students watch those videos at home and then spend the entire time at school doing the homework
435. 00:32:46 as opposed to you know having the teachers give the lectures in school and then doing the homework at home
436. 00:32:51 And lots of reasons as to why the students weren't getting the homework done, but it was causing a lot of issues. Well
437. 00:32:58 Long story short it worked and they flipped the entire school over to the new method and had a lot of success in it
438. 00:33:06 And that is the concept of redesigning the work and that's exactly what this principle did in this case
439. 00:33:12 Yeah, I mean basically he was forced to look at
440. 00:33:15 The process they were using to get their results because he was about to lose his job because of the the results that they were getting
441. 00:33:22 What you know the metrics that they were being measured against which were the failure rates and the graduation rates
442. 00:33:26 And so he recognized that the way they were working wasn't working
443. 00:33:31 So he proposed this new format based on something that he noticed
444. 00:33:34 As a baseball coach where he would create these videos for his
445. 00:33:38 His his team and then it would help them when they came to practice because they could watch these videos
446. 00:33:43 And by the way, we've talked a little bit of gone on rants before about video modeling and mental rehearsal visualization
447. 00:33:48 That's a whole not a topic, but that's really what made that part successful
448. 00:33:52 So he comes back and he flips the instruction like you said and the failure rates plummeted from 35% to 10%
449. 00:33:57 Graduation rates rose from 80% to 94% just because he had a different way
450. 00:34:02 Of doing things now. What's interesting here is that you don't have to wait until
451. 00:34:07 Your back is against the wall to embrace this principle of redesigning your work
452. 00:34:13 Uh, we can all apply this in different ways in different situations
453. 00:34:16 I really like this section the one part that really stood out to me
454. 00:34:19 Was this concept of squeezing the orange?
455. 00:34:22 You know trying to squeeze out more productivity after working many hours
456. 00:34:25 This is how most people think of productivity is how much did I produce?
457. 00:34:31 How much work did I actually do but he's got a different definition here which I like better
458. 00:34:36 So he's talking about how typically people
459. 00:34:39 evaluate work from
460. 00:34:43 Uh inside out where you measure your work by whether you have completed your tasks
461. 00:34:47 But really what we should be doing is evaluating our work from the outside in approach
462. 00:34:51 Which is based on how much others benefit from it
463. 00:34:54 So it's the value of work
464. 00:34:57 Productivity versus traditional productivity where traditional productivity could be defined as like output of work divided by hours of input
465. 00:35:04 And i've even got something along those lines in my my maxdoc presentation
466. 00:35:09 But when it comes to your specific
467. 00:35:11 Vocation or your job the value of work is different because it equals the benefit to others times the quality times the efficiency
468. 00:35:21 This is the thing that really will move the needle for your personal or your professional life
469. 00:35:26 Figuring out the things that are the important things now this goes back to like the bookworm draft my number one book
470. 00:35:32 The one thing we're gonna have to do that at some point because that's what this is all this is all about
471. 00:35:35 All right
472. 00:35:37 Fair enough
473. 00:35:38 No, I think this is uh, it's a valuable section. You've got a lot of good points here, but the
474. 00:35:43 the part of this that I feel
475. 00:35:46 And one of the things that I know that he does really well in the book is he does show
476. 00:35:50 Here's the way that we usually think about these things
477. 00:35:53 And then here is how you should think about them per
478. 00:35:57 Research and data
479. 00:36:00 And I guess maybe we should have started this whole thing with
480. 00:36:02 Uh, the story that he tells at the very beginning because he wasn't always a researcher. He wasn't always
481. 00:36:08 a professor
482. 00:36:10 and he
483. 00:36:11 He joined what was it?
484. 00:36:13 Boston consulting group bcs or I forget what the name of the group was it was a consulting firm and
485. 00:36:19 He was going about it the way you would think a lot of new people refresh out of college would
486. 00:36:24 You know, he was gonna work super long hours to be one of the best in his his workspace
487. 00:36:29 So he could you know climb the ladder quickly
488. 00:36:31 I forgot how long he was there
489. 00:36:33 But there was one point when he ran across a report by one of his colleagues that was way better than his
490. 00:36:39 And he went to find her to go talk to her about
491. 00:36:43 You know, how did you come about doing this and you know
492. 00:36:46 Basically, please give me tips like that's the way I took it
493. 00:36:50 But she wasn't there. She was at home
494. 00:36:52 And this was I forget what time at night it was but he figured out that she was working like normal business hours
495. 00:36:59 and yet she was excelling beyond him and
496. 00:37:03 That was one of the instigators to him going down the path of trying to determine what these
497. 00:37:09 Seven principles are and coming to them and at all so it was part of what sparked his whole research
498. 00:37:15 And I feel like this redesigning your work piece
499. 00:37:18 Like that's that's an aspect that I think you have to think abstractly about
500. 00:37:22 And and you really have to think outside the box like the the typical getaway find some some free space go for a walk in the woods
501. 00:37:31 Sort of thing he doesn't really talk about how to come up with the ideas real well
502. 00:37:34 But I don't think that's the point like it's the the concept that this is a thing that you should be doing
503. 00:37:39 And if you figure out how to do it, you can really change the way that you do things
504. 00:37:43 Yeah, I mean go take your personal retreat
505. 00:37:45 That's uh my my version of this and like I said, it doesn't have to be a whole bit it could be a couple of hours
506. 00:37:52 It could be anywhere where you've got some time to think about these things asking the right right questions
507. 00:37:56 But those questions can completely change your perspective in this case
508. 00:38:01 His question was how are you able to do this?
509. 00:38:04 When you're not playing the game according to the rules that everybody else is
510. 00:38:08 And that's the thing I think that can apply to everybody's situation like there is so much stuff
511. 00:38:13 That we settle for because it is the status quo
512. 00:38:17 This is the way that things are this is the way that you do things if you want to be successful
513. 00:38:21 You've got to do it this way. We never stopped a question
514. 00:38:24 Why that's the case and if you do stop the question why that's the case you can identify those things that will allow you
515. 00:38:31 To get the results without killing yourself and a lot of times
516. 00:38:34 We don't look for those things because we're so caught up in the day-to-day
517. 00:38:39 Moment-to-moment emergency scam modality a day by now and we'll call it, you know
518. 00:38:43 Putting out the fires that we never even think about what's causing the fires in the first place
519. 00:38:48 He's got a quote in this section where he says it's easier to sell aspirin than vitamins
520. 00:38:52 But vitamins are the thing that are really gonna make the difference
521. 00:38:55 So you do have to get yourself outside the situation and the urgency of the moment
522. 00:39:01 So that you can think about these things and see things the right way
523. 00:39:03 And then also i'm again. This is a book on your personal productivity
524. 00:39:07 I guess as opposed to what makes you successful as a business. So page 62
525. 00:39:12 There's a quote that I really liked he says
526. 00:39:14 Don't you see yourself as an employee see yourself as an innovator of work
527. 00:39:18 Hunt and cure pain points ask stupid questions and zoom in on how you can redesign and create value for others
528. 00:39:25 I think there's a whole lot of value in that one phrase if you were to apply
529. 00:39:31 Just the stuff that he listed in that little section
530. 00:39:33 This book is going to have a profound impact on on your life and your career
531. 00:39:37 And it interesting how many times we say that
532. 00:39:39 The section is the part you need out of this book
533. 00:39:41 Yeah
534. 00:39:43 True, I mean, but there's a lot of those sections in this particular book
535. 00:39:46 Uh, there's also some sections where he condenses it down like that and I don't agree with it. We'll get there
536. 00:39:52 Fair point. All right section three don't just learn loop and
537. 00:39:59 This is peak peak junior. Yeah, I know I know I was really thinking that and this is a section where he brought up the book peak
538. 00:40:07 Yep, which was funny to me since we just went over that
539. 00:40:09 Uh, but he also brought up carol de werck's mindset
540. 00:40:12 Uh, which again, I thought was interesting, but I know there were and those were just the two that I wrote down
541. 00:40:17 There was a handful of these
542. 00:40:19 Books that were brought up and this is what I was referring to earlier on in the show about how so many of these books become
543. 00:40:26 intertwined or they become the go-to resource about a specific area and instead of him
544. 00:40:32 Like writing an entire book about this one piece he tends to reference these others that you know, we have gone over
545. 00:40:39 You know, you go through this enough and you start to pick up on all the the big names that everybody refers to so
546. 00:40:44 It's funny to me that you know, these are books that we just went through but they've inspired a section or helped explain
547. 00:40:51 a piece of his broader
548. 00:40:54 Uh research here. So I don't know. I really enjoyed that. I made it kind of interesting. It's funny to see how so many of these
549. 00:41:01 Reference materials of ours end up incorporating themselves into others. So they're very intertwined is it was kind of fun for me
550. 00:41:09 This one in particular. I didn't really like this section
551. 00:41:13 Just because like you said it is a rehash of a peak which we had just read so that's not right morton hansons fault
552. 00:41:20 But we literally just went through this on a much deeper scale
553. 00:41:23 And then even the story that he used at the beginning of this chapter because he has a story at the beginning of every chapter in the book
554. 00:41:28 Was dan mclaughlin the pga guy from peak?
555. 00:41:31 So it was the exact same story the exact same principles and then in the end he tried to apply his own looping tactics section on this
556. 00:41:37 Which is okay, but it's not the strongest part of the book in my my opinion
557. 00:41:41 So just to recap, you know without redoing peak
558. 00:41:45 There's this learning loop which you can use to really get better at things and peak would call it deliberate practice
559. 00:41:51 The learning loop according to morton hanson is do measure get feedback modify and then redo
560. 00:41:58 And then he's got these looping tactics that you can use there's five different steps
561. 00:42:02 Number one carve out the 15 so carve out 15 minutes and pick only one specific skill that you want to improve
562. 00:42:10 Number two chunk it which means that you're supposed to focus on the micro behaviors take less than 15 minutes to perform and review
563. 00:42:16 They have a clear impact on your skill development
564. 00:42:19 But they're these these little things that you want to to focus on not the the big thing
565. 00:42:24 Measure the soft which if I remember right this is talking about soft skills
566. 00:42:28 So it's not just the academic of the the hard technical skills that we we think of a lot of times
567. 00:42:32 Which that's a whole another topic too and I definitely agree with that in principle
568. 00:42:36 But I thought that the way he described this was kind of weak
569. 00:42:39 Number four get nimble feedback fast. So speed of implementation
570. 00:42:44 You know you want to do something you want to get feedback and then you want to
571. 00:42:46 You want to redesign it you want to redo it you want to make modifications and and try it again
572. 00:42:52 And then the fifth one dig the dip. I think that I write that down right dig the dip to be honest
573. 00:42:57 I don't remember what this one was all about
574. 00:42:59 I think that this one he was talking about how when there is going to be a dip like in piki talks about how you'll improve
575. 00:43:09 To a certain point and then you'll plateau
576. 00:43:12 At this point
577. 00:43:14 This is when you really want to dig in deep because that dip is going to come at some point
578. 00:43:17 And that's when you need to kind of like if this is really something you want to improve
579. 00:43:20 You've got to got to double down on it. I could be wrong on that someone could correct me
580. 00:43:25 I guess if if that's not the general idea
581. 00:43:27 But the whole idea with looping is that you this is a cycle that just keeps going
582. 00:43:31 and so
583. 00:43:33 You're never going to quote-unquote escape the learning loop
584. 00:43:37 But you're going to plug in different tactics and different pieces into the learning loop
585. 00:43:41 To create the long-term results that you want and that's the mindset that you need
586. 00:43:46 You know he mentions in this section that top performers want to get better
587. 00:43:49 74% of top performers study themselves to make improvements
588. 00:43:52 Well under performers don't only 17% study themselves
589. 00:43:56 So a lot of people think like well, I'm just going to do this thing. I'm going to get better at it
590. 00:44:00 maybe
591. 00:44:02 But if you study what you're doing well what you're not doing well
592. 00:44:05 And then figure out how to improve one of those small things at a time like that's going to produce the results that you're looking for
593. 00:44:10 This section I think sparked peak in me for some reason
594. 00:44:14 Having read the book peak. I I was applying it. I think mostly to my work
595. 00:44:20 At the time, but for whatever reason when I read this section
596. 00:44:23 I couldn't help but think about mixing sound
597. 00:44:26 Like running a sound board
598. 00:44:29 Which I have no idea why I made that connection
599. 00:44:33 But whenever I did
600. 00:44:35 It occurred to me that this is something that I try to do when I run sound at our church
601. 00:44:40 Specifically, it's a pretty sophisticated board a sound board that that we have there in a
602. 00:44:45 intense system just in general and
603. 00:44:49 Whenever I run sound which you know, I'm running sound this sunday. So I was at a rehearsal last night and
604. 00:44:56 You know, it's it's pretty intense. You know, we've got I'm trying to think of how many different channels we've run at one time
605. 00:45:03 We've got eight channels on a drum, you know, and then amongst other things. I think I had another 12
606. 00:45:08 so call it 20 channels you're working with at one time
607. 00:45:13 And it gets intense doing that but I bring that up because I have been trying to get better at running sound
608. 00:45:20 Over the last year or so and haven't really had a good way to do that
609. 00:45:26 Like I I've done some things like
610. 00:45:28 Trying to pay attention to the music that I'm listening to and then how do they have it mixed?
611. 00:45:33 You know, it was obviously good enough to make it mainstream
612. 00:45:36 You know on the radio and through a lot of apple music and stuff like they're they're popular songs
613. 00:45:43 So it's obviously going to be mixed really well or should be in theory. It's done better than what I would do
614. 00:45:50 I'll put it that way and
615. 00:45:53 Paying attention to that and trying to notice the little details and you know, how do they have that equalizer setup on that person?
616. 00:45:59 like those things
617. 00:46:01 I I can slowly pick up but I haven't been as effective at becoming a better sound person like that. I want to be so
618. 00:46:08 When I finished this I realized that this is an area that I enjoy and I want to get better at it
619. 00:46:15 But in order for that to happen I have to nail down what this feedback loop
620. 00:46:21 Is going to be because I can't just keep going with what I hear on on a radio or such because it you know
621. 00:46:27 I'm I don't have somebody explaining to me what I'm doing different than what they are doing
622. 00:46:32 Like you can slowly pick it up, but not the way that I would like so I haven't figured out what I'm doing with that mic
623. 00:46:37 Other than it's it's an interesting thing to be aware of
624. 00:46:40 So I've played around with trying to find some people who I know are better at running sound than I am
625. 00:46:45 And try to just shadow them to some extent
626. 00:46:49 But at the same time like I feel like
627. 00:46:52 You know doing live gigs and such is something that I really enjoy doing I run sound for
628. 00:46:56 A local band which is actually surprisingly good to me
629. 00:47:00 Not no diss to you guys because I know a couple of you listen. Hi, but you know, this is
630. 00:47:05 This is a thing that I know
631. 00:47:08 I want to continue to improve on that. So this is a
632. 00:47:12 A place that I want to apply this feedback loop mechanism
633. 00:47:17 But I I don't know that this particular section of the book was one that
634. 00:47:20 That explained it well enough and was
635. 00:47:23 applicable enough to say that I would all of that concept and that mentality comes from reading this section in the book
636. 00:47:30 I think it just sparked
637. 00:47:32 That thinking on that particular area, but it's it's an area that I want to improve
638. 00:47:37 Yeah for a majority of this section
639. 00:47:40 Like I said, I felt like I got a better version of this when I read peak
640. 00:47:44 But there was an interesting point on page 84
641. 00:47:47 Which at least in my mind phrased the question
642. 00:47:51 How do you avoid becoming obsolete and he tied the learning loop to this?
643. 00:47:56 Which I thought was really interesting if you go back to
644. 00:47:58 The innovators dilemma that we covered with uh clinton christianson
645. 00:48:02 I didn't really enjoy reading that book, but I got a lot out of it
646. 00:48:06 I'm recognizing that now as i'm talking about it, you know
647. 00:48:09 Probably year year or two after we we read it
648. 00:48:13 Uh that and that that whole book was about why do some companies
649. 00:48:16 Make these changes and survive and some of them go the way of the dodo like codac
650. 00:48:22 invented the digital camera
651. 00:48:24 But they were so happy with the results they were getting from their film business that somebody else had to take that technology
652. 00:48:30 And run with it
653. 00:48:32 And what could have been the thing that took codac to the next level going forward
654. 00:48:37 You know that they they basically gave it away
655. 00:48:41 And I think that the learning loop is the key to recognizing those things
656. 00:48:44 The best performers adapt successfully to disruptions by combining
657. 00:48:49 redesign of their their current business their current work whatever
658. 00:48:54 And the learning loop so they don't ignore reality and they don't write off new technology
659. 00:49:00 But they've if you keep plugging these things in and keep asking the right questions
660. 00:49:04 To keep focusing on these little things that you can control
661. 00:49:07 That can lead you to a successful transition from in codac's case, you know
662. 00:49:13 A film business to a digital technology business or digital photography business
663. 00:49:17 And again, that's just my hypothesis. I don't have specific data to support that
664. 00:49:21 But that's kind of what I was thinking when I was reading this section
665. 00:49:25 And he talks about in page 86
666. 00:49:27 He says of course that kind of intense sustained effort to redesign work and learn requires a terrific degree
667. 00:49:33 Of motivation which again goes back to peak and why will power alone is is not going to work
668. 00:49:39 But as long as you maintain the motivation the why behind the things that you're doing and you implement this learning loop
669. 00:49:44 I think that that can be a
670. 00:49:47 Had your protection against those threats in the future
671. 00:49:50 If you're thinking about it from your your business perspective
672. 00:49:53 I'm not talked about this on I'm free agents with uh with david sparks
673. 00:49:58 He mentioned like what's the the thing that scares you and it's like my job as it exists could not exist tomorrow
674. 00:50:05 Something could come in and just completely wipe out blogs and podcasts and screencasts and everything that I'm doing
675. 00:50:10 There could be some new technology that just replaces all of it
676. 00:50:12 And my skills that I've developed over this last several years are now worthless
677. 00:50:17 Okay, so that can apply to whatever your business is
678. 00:50:21 And I think that if you are so focused on what you are doing now
679. 00:50:25 And which is the tendency right is a business owner to milk all the profit that you can get out of the way that things are right now
680. 00:50:32 Take advantage of the opportunity that is staring you in the face. Okay
681. 00:50:35 But I think that if you if you get stuck there, which is what we learned in the innovators the lemma that you that could have potentially
682. 00:50:44 Uh very serious ramifications and could even kill your business in the future
683. 00:50:48 But I think embracing this learning loop
684. 00:50:52 And this is the key to becoming not obsolete
685. 00:50:55 Uh if I were to you know examine the codex situation retroactively, which is easy to do
686. 00:51:02 Now that it's happened, you know
687. 00:51:05 But I kind of think that if they had this mindset that morton hanson outlines here
688. 00:51:10 They would look at the new technology that they develop with with the digital photography
689. 00:51:14 differently
690. 00:51:16 And if they kept and kept employing the learning loop with the new technology pieces that they were discovering
691. 00:51:24 As they they figured that stuff out
692. 00:51:26 That would have pointed them to yes, this is the future and they wouldn't have given that away
693. 00:51:31 They wouldn't have mortgaged the the future for the present if that makes sense
694. 00:51:35 I think the benefit that I have is that i'm
695. 00:51:38 Bolder line edd and can't help new and shiny stuff from coming into my brain
696. 00:51:43 uh, so
697. 00:51:46 whenever
698. 00:51:47 You know when I when I master a specific area or feel like i've mastered it well enough a specific area of
699. 00:51:53 Something I I have a tendency to want to go find something different to work on and uh
700. 00:51:59 A good example of this is and I did one this morning. I've been jumping into the concept of live streaming lately
701. 00:52:06 Which is interesting because you know, i'm essentially doing live screencasts
702. 00:52:11 So people can ask questions as we go. So it's been a an interesting process, but part of the reason for that is because
703. 00:52:17 Live streaming has fascinated me from a from a
704. 00:52:20 Hardware and software stance like how do you actually do this and how do you do it? Well
705. 00:52:25 So that's that's the thing that i'm doing, but the part that's interesting about that is that
706. 00:52:30 Once you figure out how to do that it it opens up a whole new realm of
707. 00:52:38 uh areas that you can start to
708. 00:52:40 Apply to different sectors like for example like I run the productivity guild
709. 00:52:44 uh community and that's where i've been doing some of this live streaming which has been a fun process, but
710. 00:52:50 It has taught me that doing that live streaming there could apply to my pro course web development business
711. 00:52:56 And although we do primarily web development and do discourse stuff with that business
712. 00:53:02 Like I could be doing some live streams on how do you set up discourse and teaching people how to do different aspects of that?
713. 00:53:08 And doing it live so it's a q&a type thing
714. 00:53:10 So there's different aspects of that because you learn how a new technology works. So I I feel like this is an area where
715. 00:53:18 I can't help myself
716. 00:53:21 Okay, like I can go right online. I can do the podcasting thing. I've been doing screencasts and such now
717. 00:53:26 I'm getting into the live bit
718. 00:53:29 and like those all are great, but
719. 00:53:31 I also do web development and I do client management and
720. 00:53:35 I've got all these different areas that I do things in so if one thing goes down that takes it all out
721. 00:53:39 It would have to be the entire internet going down like the internet itself would have to die
722. 00:53:44 before
723. 00:53:46 My entire income is gone like that's what it would take to to bring it all down. So
724. 00:53:52 but but you know if
725. 00:53:54 Discourse went under tomorrow. Well, that's fine. I'll just focus more on the word press side of things that we've been doing
726. 00:54:01 If for whatever reason word press goes under well, that's fine discourse. We'll pick up on that if web development in general is gone
727. 00:54:08 well
728. 00:54:10 That means all the other blogging and everything else is gone too. So
729. 00:54:13 Then I'm going to focus on the it work that I'm doing with internal infrastructures like okay
730. 00:54:18 We'll just we'll just start doing that now. So
731. 00:54:20 I try to diversify because I'm a bit gun shy on
732. 00:54:26 Focusing on one area, but I think some of that just has to do with I get bored if I'm just stuck on one
733. 00:54:32 Area
734. 00:54:34 Which is where this whole learning loop thing I think comes in because for me personally
735. 00:54:38 This is almost habitual like it's just a process that I love doing so I can't help that particular piece
736. 00:54:44 I think where I would apply it more is how do I continually get better in a specific area?
737. 00:54:49 So with the live streaming bit like that's fun
738. 00:54:52 But every time I hit the go live button
739. 00:54:55 Like there are different things that I want to do to make it just that much better
740. 00:55:00 So trying to say okay. Well, this is a thing that I see
741. 00:55:03 Professionals doing that's what I need to work on like those are the things that I I find myself applying this to right
742. 00:55:09 But diversity is in direct contrast to the focus that he's talking about I know section one
743. 00:55:14 Obsessed so focus equals choosing a few
744. 00:55:17 You don't have to bring that up. No
745. 00:55:19 At some point you do have to focus and maybe your focus is a little bit more macro
746. 00:55:25 So maybe it's information technology, but what if information technology as it exists today like gets wiped out tomorrow with some alien technology
747. 00:55:32 Right, it's gonna happen, but I mean like what if everything you know is wrong tomorrow
748. 00:55:37 Yes, like what do you do? How do you successfully navigate to that next thing?
749. 00:55:41 That's where I think this learning loop applied intentionally can help you avoid becoming
750. 00:55:49 Obsolete and again, I'm just retroactively applying it to a couple of companies
751. 00:55:52 That I remember from when I read the innovators dilemma, but I think this is a really interesting idea
752. 00:55:57 Like this is something that everybody struggles with if we view our situation correctly like we all have some
753. 00:56:06 Uncertainty about our future no matter how secure your job is it may not be there tomorrow. I've got a
754. 00:56:13 relative who was high up at a
755. 00:56:17 Pretty big company here locally and was forced to take early retirement
756. 00:56:22 Because the the companies going through a whole bunch of rounds of layoffs like
757. 00:56:27 You can think well this company's not going anywhere that may be true, but your job
758. 00:56:31 No matter how well you've performed individually like that may not be there tomorrow
759. 00:56:35 And so like that's what it's interesting about free agents is the whole idea of control and mastering your your own your own ship
760. 00:56:43 Taking control for and responsibility for your future, but I think that like
761. 00:56:48 There's got to be some middle ground between just trying a whole bunch of things all the time and figuring out what works
762. 00:56:54 Which is it is an approach. It's probably a valid approach, but not in the context
763. 00:56:59 I think of of this particular book. So that's what I'm wrestling with in my head is like
764. 00:57:03 How do you do that? And I think that the learning loop here
765. 00:57:07 This is the key because I think that there's going to be small things
766. 00:57:12 That you can test using the learning loop. So let's just say like the the screen casting thing that you you brought up
767. 00:57:18 All right
768. 00:57:19 So let's say you're you're doing this screen casting right now
769. 00:57:23 And this is the thing that leads to something else that leads to something else that leads to something else
770. 00:57:28 Which is eventually like that's the thing Joe does for a living in five years and he's super successful at it
771. 00:57:33 That's kind of what happened with me when I started writing like I started writing but
772. 00:57:38 And I still write almost every day, but it's not
773. 00:57:41 the thing that you see the most like my form of writing now is taking notes when I read books or putting together podcast outlines or
774. 00:57:48 Writing scripts for for videos that I'm producing stuff like that
775. 00:57:52 But none of that stuff was on the radar initially and that's the stuff that could be gone tomorrow
776. 00:57:57 And I think there's a couple principles here that we should take away and everybody listening
777. 00:58:03 From this particular section and and really like that they all tie together and I think mornin hansen is a great job of tying these together
778. 00:58:09 So we want to figure out what are the things that we should be focusing on that section one
779. 00:58:13 We want to apply those intentionally in redesigning our work
780. 00:58:17 And then as we're redesigning it we want to practice these things deliberately we want to loop them
781. 00:58:22 And pay attention to the results, you know, do measure feedback modify redo as long as we
782. 00:58:28 Follow that formula that he lays out here
783. 00:58:32 I think that that could help you successfully transition from one career to another like like I did
784. 00:58:37 But I also think it could help you successfully transition a business
785. 00:58:42 From one thing to another so you don't have to be one of the
786. 00:58:45 The the sad stories that we read about in the version two of the innovators dilemma
787. 00:58:50 All right, I want to talk about passion
788. 00:58:53 And purpose p squared section four. Let's do it. This is probably the one that I got the most lost on
789. 00:59:01 the whole book
790. 00:59:03 There's one that was a little frustrated by but this one was the one that I I
791. 00:59:08 Found myself a bit confused on so
792. 00:59:10 He calls the section p squared
793. 00:59:13 And he makes the distinction between purpose
794. 00:59:16 and passion
795. 00:59:18 and how if you want to
796. 00:59:20 Master your work
797. 00:59:23 You need to take those and multiply them by each other so you can't just have purpose and you can't just have passion
798. 00:59:29 In both cases you're going to burn out. You have to have both
799. 00:59:32 One thing he did call out later on is that if you effectively do this
800. 00:59:36 It actually leads to worse work-life balance or tension between those two. It actually makes you
801. 00:59:43 Not have much of a personal life
802. 00:59:45 Because you're so passionate about or so excited about the stuff you're doing so
803. 00:59:49 I'll see correct me if i'm wrong here mike on
804. 00:59:52 The definitions between passion and purpose
805. 00:59:56 But he essentially says that passion is the excitement you have for the work that you do
806. 01:00:00 and purpose is
807. 01:00:03 the
808. 01:00:05 Basically that your work
809. 01:00:07 Has a significant contribution to the people that you are serving with that
810. 01:00:11 Work so the excitement you have to be doing the work itself
811. 01:00:15 Times the contribution that that makes to society equals p squared. Did I get that right?
812. 01:00:23 Yeah, the way that I wrote it down was passion equals do what you love purpose equals do what contributes there you go and
813. 01:00:29 Right there. I hate this section
814. 01:00:32 All right, tell me why so
815. 01:00:37 Okay, well first let me start with what I like about this action. So the story here was really cool
816. 01:00:42 He talks about jenniville who's a concierge and he's got a quote from her. She says I care about my guess caring comes from energy
817. 01:00:49 I completely agree with that. My issue is with the definition of passion
818. 01:00:54 I think do what you love and this is why the passion mindset that kel newport talks about is so dangerous
819. 01:01:00 This is the traditional view of passion. This is an incorrect view of passion in my opinion
820. 01:01:04 Passion is not do what you love the root word for passion is the latin word pati literally means to suffer
821. 01:01:11 So doing what you love is going to cause you to suffer that doesn't make a lot of sense
822. 01:01:17 Okay, but if you combine these do what you love plus do what contributes and then you factor in what you just said the data that he has shows
823. 01:01:23 That this leads to worse
824. 01:01:25 Worklife balance. That's a lot more accurate
825. 01:01:28 Passion to me is
826. 01:01:31 Being willing to suffer to see what you believe in come to pass to see your vision materialize
827. 01:01:37 And so if you've got a vision for something
828. 01:01:40 Whether it's to start a new business to create a new product whatever you have a vision for where you want your life to be in five years
829. 01:01:47 And you're employing all these principles in order to build it that way
830. 01:01:50 Really what this section is saying is that it's not going to just come to you. It's not going to be
831. 01:01:56 Easy you're going to have to push through some things in order to realize
832. 01:02:01 That future that ideal future that you have in your head
833. 01:02:04 That I completely agree with but I think the way that he defines it here and then he's got like the uh the purpose pyramid
834. 01:02:12 Yeah, like I think this whole section is pretty weak and if you look at this you
835. 01:02:16 I'll just I have a picture of it here in my notes. So
836. 01:02:19 Um, it's got at the at the bottom level the base level
837. 01:02:23 Create value do no harm and I think that that makes sense if you view this from the situation of like i'm in this job that I don't like
838. 01:02:29 And I want to get out of it. Okay, so
839. 01:02:32 Create value don't hurt the people that you're working with but this isn't going to be the the thing eventually
840. 01:02:38 You're going to go to the next level craft personal meaning and then at the very top seek social mission. So it's like don't hurt other people
841. 01:02:45 Like do the thing that that really hits the mark for you and then do the thing that hits the mark for for other people
842. 01:02:51 The social mission like you got a mission that's bigger than yourself
843. 01:02:54 Yeah, I guess but I mean like the stronger sense of purpose. I don't know. I think that it's kind of
844. 01:03:00 Kind of backwards. I think you need to start with the uh the vision
845. 01:03:05 What's the difference that you want to make and then from there that can drive?
846. 01:03:08 It's kind of like instead of going up with like the arrows pointing it should be down
847. 01:03:12 And so like you start with what is the contribution I want to make to the world
848. 01:03:17 Uh, and then that's going to drive what you do on a daily basis and ultimately that's going to result in you benefiting
849. 01:03:24 Other people not not hurting them if that makes sense
850. 01:03:27 so
851. 01:03:29 I don't know. This is kind of a long winded rant on on the incorrect definition of of passion and mind
852. 01:03:35 My opinion, um, mike rove the guy from dirty jobs said it this way
853. 01:03:39 He says don't follow your passion but always bring it with you
854. 01:03:42 I think passion is purpose and I think that you don't have to differentiate between the two of them
855. 01:03:47 But if you have the complete picture of passion as opposed to just do what you love that is the key
856. 01:03:51 to being successful
857. 01:03:54 Uh, and you don't have to quit your job to find that you know
858. 01:03:57 He mentions that in here. It doesn't matter where your situation is
859. 01:03:59 You know jennivive could have been upset because she's just a concierge quote-unquote, but she didn't she decided that
860. 01:04:05 I'm going to care about everybody that I come in contact with and I can apply that that same
861. 01:04:10 perspective as I
862. 01:04:13 Record this podcast as I write a blog post everything that I do is I get my presentation that at max sock like that's the thing that
863. 01:04:20 Translates across a bunch of different domains
864. 01:04:22 That's really the the root of this and a lot of people view passion as the situation
865. 01:04:28 You know that which is based on the definition that he gives do what you love
866. 01:04:32 So jennivive could say, you know, I don't love being a concierge. I don't love having to look up all this information
867. 01:04:38 I don't love having to run all these errands for my guests, but she doesn't view it that way
868. 01:04:42 She views the people, you know chris bailey talked about people are the reason for the productivity
869. 01:04:47 I care about my guests like as soon as you get your eyes off of your own situation
870. 01:04:52 And recognize what impact you are having in the world the passion will come in my opinion
871. 01:04:58 And then you can make small changes as you really narrow that down
872. 01:05:03 Sometimes you do you just have to start, you know macro level big picture
873. 01:05:06 How can I contribute where I am right now? How can I deliver value which is kind of what he's saying here
874. 01:05:12 But then learning loop keep drilling down keep figuring out what is the thing?
875. 01:05:16 What is my unique ability land on your own life theme and then do things that are in alignment with that
876. 01:05:20 Which is a little bit different than the message that he's giving here
877. 01:05:23 I felt like his purpose pyramid was just three things you should have
878. 01:05:27 Like, you know, you were talking about flipping it
879. 01:05:31 Yeah, it really doesn't make sense as a mental constrict
880. 01:05:33 Like you got to have the broader world view of it. You got to have a personal view of it and you have to be giving
881. 01:05:39 Value to someone else like those aren't
882. 01:05:42 Like I don't see them as tears that you work towards. I think those are just three things that you have to have
883. 01:05:47 Like those are three aspects of that. So I'm with you. I don't think this was a section that was
884. 01:05:53 like super inspiring as much as just
885. 01:05:59 Okay, I think I follow what you're saying, but I don't really know what to do with it
886. 01:06:03 So I don't know that I have a lot to say about this one anymore
887. 01:06:07 Fair enough. Yeah, I've rented long enough on that one. Let's go to the next one
888. 01:06:12 Which is the first one in section two part two mastering work with others?
889. 01:06:16 So the first part was mastering your own work
890. 01:06:18 Do less than obsess redesigning your work. Don't just learn loop
891. 01:06:23 P squared and then we're on to part two mastering work with others and the first of these is
892. 01:06:28 forceful champions, which I would almost
893. 01:06:32 qualify by saying these are the bullies
894. 01:06:37 To to some extent. Yep. I don't know. I I kind of had an issue with some of this because he talks a lot about how
895. 01:06:45 When you're trying to do something meaningful
896. 01:06:49 Or trying to be great at what you do you sometimes have to just power through
897. 01:06:55 and force your way in not true. Yeah, I've got issues with this section too. Yeah, I just didn't care for
898. 01:07:01 like I I couldn't help but reflect on
899. 01:07:04 how to win friends and influence people like I couldn't help but have that in my mind and and think of
900. 01:07:10 so many of the ways that
901. 01:07:13 are called out in how to win friends that are
902. 01:07:15 so much more subtle and more effective than
903. 01:07:20 Set your purpose and go until you hit it like that
904. 01:07:24 Yeah, okay, like he told a story about
905. 01:07:27 a guy who manufactured a fake ad
906. 01:07:31 In order to get a point across
907. 01:07:34 And in order to get support for his project like I would never do that like then people can't trust anything
908. 01:07:41 You do because they don't know if it's a ruse or not
909. 01:07:43 Anyway, I didn't like this section. Yeah, your quote-unquote purpose cannot be greater than your integrity
910. 01:07:50 In in my opinion. Yeah, I actually wrote down in this section feels like a jerk led repurposing of how to win friends and
911. 01:07:56 There you go
912. 01:07:59 It's a good way to play. Yeah, he talks about forceful forceful champions have mastered two skills
913. 01:08:04 They inspire others by evoking emotions and they circumvent resistance by developing smart grit
914. 01:08:09 So again, he talks about grit if you were to assign like a book that we've read for each of these sections grit would be the book here
915. 01:08:16 right, but he makes a
916. 01:08:18 An important distinction I think when he talks about smart grit because he says that grit can scare people away
917. 01:08:23 So you have to employ it in the right scenario and he he used an example. I think it was this section
918. 01:08:27 about the the guy who
919. 01:08:30 had the purpose to like develop the the pads and like it completely ostracized him from everybody that he ever
920. 01:08:37 And everybody thought he was the crazy guy
921. 01:08:39 Years years later like he finally landed on it
922. 01:08:42 But the moral of the story as he told it told it was that there was better ways to to do this
923. 01:08:47 which which I agree with but you don't need to
924. 01:08:51 Succeed at the expense of others, which is really what was the tone of this chapter in in my opinion
925. 01:08:59 It really felt a lot like a scarcity mindset as opposed to an abundance mindset
926. 01:09:04 Where it's okay if we all win
927. 01:09:07 It's it's fine if somebody else is successful because they're not stealing the limited amount of success that I would have been able to achieve
928. 01:09:14 I guess maybe if you are working in and you're climbing a corporate ladder
929. 01:09:17 Maybe you view that a little bit differently because there's only a certain number of
930. 01:09:21 Higher level positions available and there's so many people who have an MBA and they're they're all vying for that that same position
931. 01:09:29 That I guess what I'm saying is I can see how his story that he told at the beginning
932. 01:09:33 Would have influenced the way that he taught this section
933. 01:09:37 But it's kind of not what I've seen from my experience
934. 01:09:42 Yeah, I don't know that I want to dive into this one much more to be honest with you
935. 01:09:46 just because like
936. 01:09:48 You can be a champion for a specific cause or your particular project
937. 01:09:52 but
938. 01:09:54 You know even even the title of this forceful champions like it just feels kind of dirty to me
939. 01:09:59 And I didn't care for it. I get the idea like
940. 01:10:03 Don't back down like I get that and that's fine
941. 01:10:07 but it felt like he was advocating for
942. 01:10:12 you know some shady methods
943. 01:10:14 And
944. 01:10:15 That I'm not behind like I wasn't okay with that. Yeah
945. 01:10:18 I do want to call out really nothing to take action on for me from this
946. 01:10:23 But I thought it was an interesting anecdote and really kind of shows where we're at as a culture
947. 01:10:29 Page 121
948. 01:10:32 He said that studies show that women in the workplace can be perceived as either competent or liked but not both
949. 01:10:39 And I thought that was kind of sad. I definitely can see situations where that has played out
950. 01:10:44 You know based on again his research. I'm not saying this. I don't agree
951. 01:10:47 With this in principle, but I it's the way things are in the the business world
952. 01:10:52 Or at least it's the way things are in certain situations in the business world
953. 01:10:55 I'm sure you know women who are in the business world can chime in as to whether that's accurate or not
954. 01:10:59 but I kind of think that it is and it's
955. 01:11:01 It's sad, you know, it shouldn't have to have to be that way
956. 01:11:06 But really like that really gets back to the whole idea behind this forceful champions chapter is
957. 01:11:10 Do we have to do things this way like isn't there a better way?
958. 01:11:14 Can't we make people upset at the present and excited about the future without being jerks without putting down people or without
959. 01:11:22 forcing women who happen to be in the business world to embrace
960. 01:11:25 One of these like can't they be both competent and liked without appearing weak like that's that's sad and uh
961. 01:11:33 Like I said not really an action item associated with it
962. 01:11:36 But it does get me thinking like even like the stuff that we do for the podcast and things like that
963. 01:11:40 To be careful about how I say or phrase things
964. 01:11:45 So that i'm not contributing to this problem that i'm actually helping create a solution
965. 01:11:50 Yeah, it's a fair point and this is a having come from a corporate america. I could see a play out
966. 01:11:55 I can't say that I was aware of it at the time
967. 01:11:59 but whenever I think back to a lot of the
968. 01:12:02 meetings and different interactions that I had
969. 01:12:05 I mean I could see it. I mean obviously i'm not female so I can't speak to it directly but
970. 01:12:11 Just knowing some of the interactions and I was never like a leader of any
971. 01:12:17 meetings in those senses
972. 01:12:20 So I I don't think it was really a thing that I I hope I didn't participate in
973. 01:12:25 But it's a thing that I I think I did
974. 01:12:29 You know looking back on it and I could see that being a thing that happens. So again, it sucks
975. 01:12:34 Yeah, and and I think that
976. 01:12:37 For for us in our current situation where we're not encountering it every day
977. 01:12:41 Like the thing to take away from this is the awareness that stuff like that happens
978. 01:12:45 And if you do find yourself in a situation where that is the case
979. 01:12:48 Do everything in your power to fight against it
980. 01:12:50 Don't view women in your workplace as either competent or or nice like figure out
981. 01:12:56 A way that we can work together where they can be both and really gets into the next section here the the fight and unite
982. 01:13:02 Um, this I I thought a lot of you know the five dysfunctions of a team
983. 01:13:07 Which interestingly in that story the lead character the ceo
984. 01:13:11 Is female and there are definitely people in that narrative that Patrick lincy only tell talk
985. 01:13:17 That he tells in that book that don't like her
986. 01:13:21 But there are a lot of other people who look past that in the organization as a whole can be successful
987. 01:13:26 So I think that that book in particular is
988. 01:13:29 After reading the forceful champion section
989. 01:13:32 That's a breath of a fresh air and a reminder that you know again, even though it's a fictional story
990. 01:13:37 That doesn't have to be that way. So yes, the next section, you know
991. 01:13:41 You kind of alluded to it and spoke to it a little bit fight and unite
992. 01:13:44 And I hear this quite a bit
993. 01:13:48 And I'm trying to think of a good example of where I've seen this play out and honestly the best one that I've seen
994. 01:13:53 At a large scale was actually at our church where
995. 01:13:57 You know, we we had a big building project that we were debating. It was not a go-forward
996. 01:14:04 There were folks that were for it and folks that were
997. 01:14:06 Um, or I shouldn't say that everyone was for the building project. It was just the financing methods that people were split on
998. 01:14:14 And you know, that's pretty typical
999. 01:14:17 But one thing I really appreciated about our church was that we were
1000. 01:14:21 Both sides were very vocal and were very involved in the debate on you know, what is the right way to go
1001. 01:14:29 And when it was all said and done vote was done building project moved forward
1002. 01:14:34 And the financing methods were nailed down and it was like the whole thing was like it was done and everybody's on board
1003. 01:14:43 Like, okay, this is the way that we're going to do this and everyone's in
1004. 01:14:47 Uh, they're all on the bus. They're all ready to go. Let's let's get this thing done
1005. 01:14:51 So it was a good example to me that you can be on opposite sides of a situation or on a of a decision
1006. 01:14:59 but once that decision is made if you're truly bought into
1007. 01:15:02 the organization or
1008. 01:15:05 the the decision itself that's being made
1009. 01:15:08 Get on board like don't don't just sit back and you know, soul go over it
1010. 01:15:14 Jump in you get together unite to use his word and get things done
1011. 01:15:19 So I don't know I appreciated this section because it's one that I feel like is not
1012. 01:15:23 It's not taught in a lot of places
1013. 01:15:26 I feel like a lot of us know in the back of our heads that this is the thing you should do
1014. 01:15:30 That you should fight until a decision is made and then jump on board
1015. 01:15:33 And I did appreciate his his view on this for sure
1016. 01:15:37 Yeah, the story he mentions at the beginning. I think it's recut ben kaiser
1017. 01:15:41 They asked him why why are you successful?
1018. 01:15:43 And he says we succeed because of number one fighting in meetings and number two fostering unity
1019. 01:15:48 And that does seem contradictory on the surface unless you've read the five dis functions of a team
1020. 01:15:53 Another place that i've seen this seen this articulated and I don't have the link in front of me
1021. 01:15:58 But jeff bezos. I believe amazon has this idea of disagree but commit
1022. 01:16:02 You know on page 147 he says and teams that unite team members commit to decisions even if they disagree and they all work hard to implement the decision without second guessing or undermining it
1023. 01:16:11 And this really just illustrates that people don't necessarily want to get their way
1024. 01:16:16 But they do want to be heard they want to know that the concerns that they have and the feedback that they have to give
1025. 01:16:22 It's not just going in one year and out the other
1026. 01:16:24 I think that that's
1027. 01:16:27 I definitely have felt that way in
1028. 01:16:29 Like asian efficiency for example one of the things I I respect about it is that like a lot of our meetings
1029. 01:16:35 I'm the guy who's always complaining about things quote-unquote complaining
1030. 01:16:38 You know, I point out all the all the ways that that things might not work
1031. 01:16:41 but uh, it's
1032. 01:16:44 It's a positive environment still a big piece of that is the gratitude that we do at the end of all of our growth hacking meetings
1033. 01:16:50 Um, but it's just thinking of the the things that other people don't think of the more perspectives that you get the better off
1034. 01:16:57 You're going to be as an organization the better the end product is going to be
1035. 01:17:00 The more likely you are to succeed
1036. 01:17:03 He says that the chance for great ideas is much higher when you have people with different backgrounds
1037. 01:17:08 Doesn't have to necessarily be cultural backgrounds. It can just be
1038. 01:17:11 Uh, your your personal background, uh, it can be the the unique perspective that you bring to a specific situation
1039. 01:17:18 Your team can't fight well though unless you have those diverse viewpoints. I think a lot of the organizations that I
1040. 01:17:24 I have been involved within the past where this hasn't worked
1041. 01:17:28 That's been the thing that's caused it to fail
1042. 01:17:31 Is you've got a team which is all looking at it from the same way it's that classic group think and this is the right way to do things
1043. 01:17:37 And then whenever anybody usually i'm that guy, you know who says, you know, maybe this isn't the right way to do it
1044. 01:17:42 Everybody kind of gangs up on that one person. He's like, well, what are you talking about? You know
1045. 01:17:47 Uh, and
1046. 01:17:49 I think like the biggest thing I got from the fight dysfunctions of a team is that just because you're not fighting about things as a team
1047. 01:17:56 Doesn't mean that there's real unity in the the team or the organization
1048. 01:17:59 I think that fighting is good as long as it's done in the right way
1049. 01:18:04 I mean, obviously you're not
1050. 01:18:06 belittling other people and making fun of their viewpoints and trying to put them down
1051. 01:18:10 I mean they have some stories of that and the five dysfunctions of a team as well, but
1052. 01:18:13 if you follow the if you treat other people respectfully if you
1053. 01:18:19 walk with integrity and
1054. 01:18:22 Which is kind of getting back to the forceful champions chapter
1055. 01:18:25 Like it doesn't have to be a negative thing every time that you have these meetings and you quote
1056. 01:18:30 Unquote have these these fights
1057. 01:18:31 one of the things I really loved about this section
1058. 01:18:34 Was the heineken meeting cards that he talked about on page 151. I tried to find a place where I could order these
1059. 01:18:40 But I couldn't find them online
1060. 01:18:43 But basically they have these three different cards
1061. 01:18:46 um
1062. 01:18:48 The green one I think is says all in ask me why
1063. 01:18:52 The red one says challenge or I have another question
1064. 01:18:55 Or no, maybe that's a yellow one and then the red one is shiny object alert and basically like get back on track
1065. 01:19:01 And so people in the meetings will just hold these up as the meetings going on and then
1066. 01:19:05 You know if you do have other questions like you're going to overcome those challenges just by talking through those things
1067. 01:19:11 And no one is going to hide what they really feel and then in six months say oh, I knew this was a bad idea
1068. 01:19:16 Like you're going to get it all out in the open and they talk about how that being a big key to their success
1069. 01:19:21 Hey, I think this can play in pretty well to the next section here, but before we get to that. I think there's
1070. 01:19:28 There's something to be said for
1071. 01:19:31 voicing opinions before a decision is made
1072. 01:19:34 And I don't think this is something that people do regularly when they should like that's that's at least my view on it
1073. 01:19:41 and it has a lot to do with
1074. 01:19:43 so much of
1075. 01:19:45 I guess a lot of meetings that are just run poorly
1076. 01:19:49 We've talked about meetings before, you know the five dysfunctions we go through
1077. 01:19:53 you know ways of running meetings that work and ways that they don't and
1078. 01:19:57 I as somebody who works with clients
1079. 01:20:00 It's kind of a double-edged sword. I love doing that
1080. 01:20:04 Because I get to see so many different teams and see how they work with each other
1081. 01:20:09 again, there's a lead-in for the next section, but
1082. 01:20:12 Which is on collaboration just so ease people's minds, but you know working with so many different teams
1083. 01:20:19 You get a chance to see
1084. 01:20:21 You know, how do they work together? What doesn't doesn't work?
1085. 01:20:23 And how do you lead a meeting such that you can accomplish something successful without
1086. 01:20:29 causing a lot of angst or
1087. 01:20:32 And you know because I'm on so many different calls like that you get it you start to get a sense for
1088. 01:20:37 if someone has a
1089. 01:20:40 An opinion and they're not sharing it like you can start to get that feeling but
1090. 01:20:46 There's something that should be said now by this person, but they're not saying it even when it's just a phone call and there's no video involved or in person involved
1091. 01:20:53 Like even then it's still helpful for sure. Yeah for sure and in person even more
1092. 01:20:58 but you can start to get a feeling for that and
1093. 01:21:01 So many times I'm not the one that's leading the meeting or leading the call
1094. 01:21:06 But I want to jump in and just say okay sam
1095. 01:21:09 Why are you not like what's up? Like something's going on you got you know start talking
1096. 01:21:16 You know something along those lines, but
1097. 01:21:18 It's not my place to do that and I can't do that because you know
1098. 01:21:22 I'm the contractor in that case
1099. 01:21:24 So I need to keep my mouth shut and just do what I'm told in a lot of cases
1100. 01:21:27 If I want to maintain the contract, but there are cases where you you jump on a call and the team is one that
1101. 01:21:34 They really welcome constructive feedback or criticism and you know in those cases
1102. 01:21:40 Yeah, absolutely if I see something that's off with the way the business is operating
1103. 01:21:44 I'll jump in and say it and
1104. 01:21:46 They're open to that
1105. 01:21:47 But to be honest with you most teams aren't and I wish they were and if if these aspects this fight and unite concept was one that was more
1106. 01:21:56 Common place. I mean
1107. 01:21:59 Everybody's a pin like more opinions would be out there, but I can't help but think that so many companies would be running a lot better ways
1108. 01:22:06 And people would feel heard in a lot of cases. So I don't know. I wish it was more common for sure
1109. 01:22:13 Yeah, I've seen tan do this in meetings at Asian efficiency where
1110. 01:22:17 Somebody or a couple people, you know will be
1111. 01:22:20 Leading the the conversation and contributing just to draw stuff out of other people. You know, I'll be like so and so you you haven't said anything yet
1112. 01:22:27 What do you think? Yeah, which is a classic move even without the video to your point, you know
1113. 01:22:32 So yeah, meeting
1114. 01:22:37 Management or meeting leadership, I guess like if you were to in a corporate environment pick one skill to develop that would
1115. 01:22:45 Exponentially increase your effectiveness and your productivity. That would be the thing that going back to my gapbook from from last time
1116. 01:22:52 I think it was no fail meetings by Michael Hyatt. That's an interesting little read with several practical things that you can do whether you happen to
1117. 01:22:59 Be the person in charge of the meeting or not
1118. 01:23:02 But there's so much time that's that's spent in meetings and it's it's really kind of depressing when you think about ineffective most of them are
1119. 01:23:09 Because people are too scared to say stuff or they're too scared to say what they they really think I've never really had that problem
1120. 01:23:16 Which has gotten me
1121. 01:23:18 But in the midst of a lot of these meetings like I alluded to it a couple times
1122. 01:23:24 brings us to the last of the seven
1123. 01:23:26 principles here and that is the two sins of collaboration and
1124. 01:23:31 the first is under collaboration and as you would expect the second one is over collaboration and
1125. 01:23:38 I think under collaboration is probably more common. I would think yep, you know, that's that's my take on it
1126. 01:23:45 It seems like it's more common that people feel like well, you just need to assume this if I don't
1127. 01:23:50 XYZ that's frustrating like okay. Well now I'm assuming this every single time
1128. 01:23:56 It's just a matter of you know days and weeks before that falls through
1129. 01:24:01 So I wish that was not a case, but it is
1130. 01:24:05 I don't know if I'm one of those. I might be in some arenas. I feel like this is a thing that
1131. 01:24:10 You know some areas of life. I'm bad at under collaborating and others. I'm probably over collaborating
1132. 01:24:17 Uh where I'm sharing too much in too many different places at too many different times. So I could see where these are our
1133. 01:24:24 Areas that you need to be aware of I wasn't real sure what to do with them
1134. 01:24:29 once I finished this section like okay, well, this is cool, but
1135. 01:24:32 I feel like I wasn't really given any guidelines or any like
1136. 01:24:36 Anything concrete to help me nail down if I'm committing one of the other than other than just these are some
1137. 01:24:43 Things that can happen right and you kind of have to interpret that to your on your own
1138. 01:24:48 Which I think is fine. I just wanted something a little more concrete from it. Maybe this is me being picky
1139. 01:24:52 Well, I think that based on our situation where we aren't well
1140. 01:24:57 Maybe yours is a little bit different because you're working with all the other developers, but
1141. 01:25:01 I kind of think that for most people in
1142. 01:25:05 an online work environment
1143. 01:25:08 You will err on one of these and you will know right away which side you happen to be on
1144. 01:25:12 Because when you have people in different locations and you do nothing
1145. 01:25:17 You're going to naturally under collaborate
1146. 01:25:19 And I think that a lot of places
1147. 01:25:22 Will try to avoid that scenario and the result of that is going to be the over collaboration
1148. 01:25:27 He's got five rules for disciplined collaboration in here
1149. 01:25:30 Which I think are cool and you could you could apply these to just about anywhere number one establish a compelling why do it case for every proposed
1150. 01:25:37 Collaboration if it's not compelling don't do it. Just say no so ask why collaborate in the first place
1151. 01:25:42 Number two craft a unifying goal that excites people so much that they subordinate their own selfish agendas
1152. 01:25:49 Number three reward people for collaboration results not activities
1153. 01:25:52 Number four devote full resources time skills money to a collaboration if you can't give it everything that it needs and scale it back or scrap it
1154. 01:25:59 And then number five if you lack confidence in your partners
1155. 01:26:02 Taylor trust boosters to solve specific trust problems quickly
1156. 01:26:05 I think that one's really interesting especially when you think about like online projects and you're working with people that maybe you've not worked with before
1157. 01:26:11 The the tendency can be to view that as well. They're they're gonna they're gonna hurt me
1158. 01:26:17 They're gonna screw me over that
1159. 01:26:19 This is gonna fail like you can view it as like it's gonna fail unless I unless I fix it or you can on the other side
1160. 01:26:25 Just air that oh they're gonna do everything that they say that they're gonna do
1161. 01:26:27 And I don't have to worry about it
1162. 01:26:29 And I think that either of those scenarios when you are approaching it blindly are dangerous
1163. 01:26:34 I really like this idea of putting trust boosters into your collaboration
1164. 01:26:38 And maybe the way to do this is just through different project milestones or sprints
1165. 01:26:43 I know that's another book that's been recommended several times
1166. 01:26:46 It's scrum by Jeff Sutherland. Maybe we we cover that one at some point in the future
1167. 01:26:49 But I do think that there's some good rules and things to consider when you are collaborating here
1168. 01:26:56 But I agree that you know unless you're in a situation like the over collaboration that the picture I got was like the Facebook office an open office environment
1169. 01:27:04 Where it's designed to foster collaboration like that's everybody who I've who I know has worked in that environment has said that it's horrible
1170. 01:27:11 Because you have to fight against it in order to get anything done
1171. 01:27:15 And so I think that like if you're in that situation, there's probably stuff in here that you could apply
1172. 01:27:19 Right away and you're like yeah, I recognize that over collaboration is just completely zapping my effectiveness
1173. 01:27:25 And it's making me not great at work
1174. 01:27:28 And so what can I do to what can I control to to change that but for me where I'm not
1175. 01:27:34 Embarking on a new collaboration ventures all the time. This is more just like nice to know. I'll use this someday
1176. 01:27:41 Yeah, I collaborate with a lot of different teams including my own
1177. 01:27:45 On a daily basis. So like this was this is an area where I feel like I appreciated his thoughts on this
1178. 01:27:53 But it's this this might be why I wanted something more concrete from him just because I do a lot of this
1179. 01:28:00 And I know that with the team that I'm leading
1180. 01:28:04 I try to
1181. 01:28:07 Share as much as I possibly can it's out of line for me to be sharing things like finances
1182. 01:28:12 Or you know the legal agreements and the contracts and stuff like those things are out of line for me to be sharing
1183. 01:28:17 So that would be over collaborating in my mind
1184. 01:28:19 But sharing is much about the development process and how things should be done and what the end goal is
1185. 01:28:25 The more of that that I can share with them the better I think they're able to serve that client
1186. 01:28:30 So I don't know that
1187. 01:28:33 like even
1188. 01:28:34 In that realm I feel like there's always areas like I could probably do a little bit more to help them understand a little bit better
1189. 01:28:40 So I'm always fine tuning that
1190. 01:28:42 If anything, this is where that feedback loop like the looping mechanism comes in for me
1191. 01:28:47 Just because I can see the way projects happen on a regular basis and they and how fast they move
1192. 01:28:53 because of that
1193. 01:28:56 I get the chance to see the results of how I've collaborated on a specific project very quickly
1194. 01:29:01 So I can constantly be iterating on that and how to do it better. So I
1195. 01:29:06 I do a lot of this
1196. 01:29:08 So I appreciate it his thoughts. I just wish he gave a little bit more detail on what to do about it
1197. 01:29:13 Or versus just here are the two things you need to be aware of so there you go
1198. 01:29:18 Part three Mike. Yeah, again. This is this is the the personal part though
1199. 01:29:23 I mean maybe in good to great, which I haven't read you know, maybe there's
1200. 01:29:25 Professional collaboration in there and there's this the point-by-point plan for you to you to implement this so
1201. 01:29:31 Maybe maybe that's see maybe I need to go do that one
1202. 01:29:35 Part three mastering your work life. There is no work life. What the heck seriously people
1203. 01:29:41 There is just life you have to balance this
1204. 01:29:43 Okay, everything that you have to do is in your jurisdiction and there is no clear cut boundary between work and life and technology makes it gray
1205. 01:29:52 Or every single day
1206. 01:29:54 But I do like the page on page 194 where he talks about top performance in any field seems to demand personal sacrifice
1207. 01:30:00 We presume that rising to the top requires crazy hard work fortitude endless practice long hours
1208. 01:30:05 That it entails doing without vacations neglecting your kids or your spouse and spending weekends and holidays glued to your computer screen
1209. 01:30:11 Because we think this way we tend to let our job responsibilities balloon out of control
1210. 01:30:15 Then to achieve some semblance of a personal life we go back into erect a protective shield around our lives to prevent work from crushing them
1211. 01:30:22 See right there right there. He's saying this is an artificial distinction
1212. 01:30:26 We switch off the smartphone at home or refrain from checking email when watching our kids baseball games
1213. 01:30:31 Or leave work early on certain days all to prevent work from burying our private lives such measures only serve to treat the symptom
1214. 01:30:38 The result of working too much and not the root cause the work itself. So when I read this
1215. 01:30:43 I don't think this is from the book. I think this was this was me. I was thinking about like, okay
1216. 01:30:48 So how does this play out for most people number one?
1217. 01:30:52 We end up doing way too much. We're busy. We do not do less than obsess like he talks about in chapter one
1218. 01:30:57 Which leads to number two we get overwhelmed and then like he says we try to
1219. 01:31:02 We try to figure out how we can separate work from life and achieve a little bit more life and a little bit less work
1220. 01:31:08 But it doesn't work that way. All right, so number three we try to create work life balance
1221. 01:31:11 Doesn't work everything at work is fighting against that work life balance
1222. 01:31:16 Which is by design the way we've set it up when we separate those two
1223. 01:31:20 If we take something from one, we're going to give it to the other and vice versa
1224. 01:31:23 So number four we resent our work and then how does that typically play out number five? We change our job
1225. 01:31:29 We change our career. We think that if I can just change the externals of my situation, it's going to get better
1226. 01:31:34 And that's not the case
1227. 01:31:37 You've got to figure this out for yourself
1228. 01:31:40 And you have to apply intentional imbalance from the 12 week year
1229. 01:31:45 You know you have to pick the things that you want to prioritize put your big rocks in the jar first steven covet seven habits
1230. 01:31:51 You know and when you do that the things that aren't important
1231. 01:31:53 They'll fall to the wayside and it's not really going to matter
1232. 01:31:56 And if you're so concerned about what everybody at work is thinking about you and you're living your life out of your inbox
1233. 01:32:02 Which is a to-do list that other people can write on you're never going to get there
1234. 01:32:06 But I think there's a lot of stuff in this book, which is good
1235. 01:32:09 It will get you on the path to work on how you work
1236. 01:32:12 You don't have to protect yourself from the work because you're working smarter
1237. 01:32:17 And there's a whole bunch of benefits that he talks about in here of working smarter
1238. 01:32:21 I did have an action item from this section, which was to make a list of things that I I shouldn't be doing
1239. 01:32:25 but again the whole
1240. 01:32:28 Section mastering your work life like this is an artificial distinction. It does not exist. Okay
1241. 01:32:34 I don't think I would disagree with you at all
1242. 01:32:37 I
1243. 01:32:40 I will be honest in when I read this whole section
1244. 01:32:44 I finished it and was just confused. I I couldn't quite figure out what he was getting at like, okay work life
1245. 01:32:52 What are we talking about like sure I have work and I have life, but I do work within my life
1246. 01:32:59 Huh? Exactly. See if you understand purpose and passion the right way. Yes. You don't have to make this distinction
1247. 01:33:08 He has three tactics to mitigate the negative impacts of the seven practices
1248. 01:33:12 Number one spend your time divided so do do a lot of different things don't always be working all the time
1249. 01:33:16 I get that number two keep your passion in check what
1250. 01:33:19 Don't do the thing that you were created to do like this makes no sense to me
1251. 01:33:25 But it makes sense if you view it as your passion is going to cause you
1252. 01:33:28 To just work on the work side of your life and it's not going to contribute anything to the life side of your life
1253. 01:33:33 Which again is what you get when you define work life balance
1254. 01:33:36 You're either on the left or you're either on the right you cannot be both
1255. 01:33:40 So that makes sense if you view it that way, but I don't think it has to be that way your passion should
1256. 01:33:45 Should propel everything that you do but the things that you do should be hitting the mark
1257. 01:33:51 And if you're living your life in alignment, I don't think you have to I don't think you have to do this
1258. 01:33:57 I don't think you have to say well, is it what i'm created to do but i'm only going to do so much of it because
1259. 01:34:01 Otherwise everything else that is really more important sometimes is going to be
1260. 01:34:05 Doesn't make any sense
1261. 01:34:07 Keep the main thing the main thing and then just don't worry about it
1262. 01:34:10 Yep, number three. Don't take it personally. Don't fight nasty
1263. 01:34:14 Uh, this is a really good point and this kind of goes back to the the last couple sections that we covered
1264. 01:34:19 But at the same time I felt like that contradicted his forceful champions chapter
1265. 01:34:23 It does it does it definitely does
1266. 01:34:26 So
1267. 01:34:28 When I was thinking through this last bit this piece here and trying to determine, you know
1268. 01:34:33 What does this mean for my work life?
1269. 01:34:37 Whatever that is
1270. 01:34:39 I I essentially landed on the the concept that this last chapter is a summary
1271. 01:34:44 He intended it to be a separate section and I think he intended to explain
1272. 01:34:50 You know some of the potential downfalls of this
1273. 01:34:54 But it was a summary with a warning that you know, if you follow all of this truly
1274. 01:35:02 It actually doesn't lead to a very happy life
1275. 01:35:05 So so you got to put in checks and balances
1276. 01:35:07 Which you do have to put in checks and balances
1277. 01:35:10 You do have to make sure that you're meeting all of the responsibilities that you have
1278. 01:35:14 But I think you can do that without creating this artificial distinction
1279. 01:35:20 Of this is me at work and this is me at home
1280. 01:35:24 I think that that's a recipe for hypocrisy to be honest
1281. 01:35:28 I mean
1282. 01:35:29 And i've gone back to my comment about your integrity needs to be greater than your purpose
1283. 01:35:33 Like you are who you are
1284. 01:35:35 And I see a lot of people who maybe would try to become a forceful champion at work
1285. 01:35:41 They'll try to be something that they're not
1286. 01:35:43 In their professional life and that just ends up hurting them
1287. 01:35:46 like
1288. 01:35:47 All I know to be is who I am and that's one of the things that i've heard over and over again from people is they appreciate my authenticity
1289. 01:35:54 I'm just like
1290. 01:35:55 Well
1291. 01:35:56 Yeah, but of course like I can't be anything else
1292. 01:36:00 Right every time i've tried to do it somebody else's way
1293. 01:36:03 I haven't been able to do it as well as that other person
1294. 01:36:06 So like why even go there just let me be me you be you okay
1295. 01:36:11 And then we'll decide whether there's alignment here and we can work together or not
1296. 01:36:14 If you hate me because of my stances on this this and this then the fine
1297. 01:36:18 You know good good luck to you
1298. 01:36:19 Yep
1299. 01:36:20 And i'll figure out somebody whose unique ability complements my unique ability and we'll do something awesome together
1300. 01:36:26 I think he got pigeonholed with the title of his book a little bit because it's great at work
1301. 01:36:31 well
1302. 01:36:33 Just by the nature of how we define things like that would mean that
1303. 01:36:37 There's a certain piece of my life that I do quote unquote work during
1304. 01:36:42 And he's now stuck on this personal life versus work life
1305. 01:36:47 Like he now has to have that yeah should have been great at life
1306. 01:36:51 Yeah, instead of saying this is all great at life
1307. 01:36:54 It's it's great at this one piece of life and I think
1308. 01:36:56 He got into the book and it's like okay
1309. 01:37:00 This is how you be really good at your work
1310. 01:37:02 And but he wants it to apply outside of work as well and he tried and I don't care for it
1311. 01:37:08 So action items I have three down
1312. 01:37:12 Okay, these
1313. 01:37:14 Are primarily about work because you know great at work
1314. 01:37:18 Uh, number one is never be the bottleneck because of the fact that I have people that do work for me
1315. 01:37:25 I am easily the one who can hold things up. I never want to be that person
1316. 01:37:29 So I always want to be waiting on either the developers or the client instead of being the one who's
1317. 01:37:35 Tying things down. I'm not the best at that right now
1318. 01:37:38 So I need to resolve that and part of that comes from action item two
1319. 01:37:42 I need to start measuring the
1320. 01:37:45 Time it takes to kick off a project
1321. 01:37:47 To the time we finish a project. I haven't have people working for me now that we should be able to do
1322. 01:37:53 All of our projects in a certain amount of time like I I think the time I was setting down is three weeks
1323. 01:37:59 We should be able to do just about any size project in three weeks
1324. 01:38:02 And
1325. 01:38:04 And it's just a matter of the bigger the project. I just put more people on it. That's the way things work
1326. 01:38:08 So I haven't been good at that, you know, I've got some projects like one right now
1327. 01:38:13 I know who's been going on for seven months
1328. 01:38:15 It's like
1329. 01:38:17 Okay, I've been going back through that. It's like, you know what if we had really been on it
1330. 01:38:21 We probably could have done that in three weeks
1331. 01:38:23 Uh, but you know, that's the way things go right now
1332. 01:38:27 So I want to get better about that
1333. 01:38:29 But I need to be putting some numbers on it so that I can see those and know if we're actually hitting that or not
1334. 01:38:33 Uh, which comes from my last action item here of building better segmentation into my day
1335. 01:38:41 There are a lot of things I do with the it work that I do for the church or a local contractor
1336. 01:38:46 I do a lot of this media creation
1337. 01:38:48 Making media of sorts whether it's writing or doing video work or podcasting or such like I do a lot of that media work
1338. 01:38:55 But then at the same time I do
1339. 01:38:58 Obviously client management and development work
1340. 01:39:01 And I know what times of the day i'm best at each of those
1341. 01:39:04 So i'm trying to get myself building in better habits of when I do things
1342. 01:39:10 At those different times of the day. So
1343. 01:39:12 Hopefully that will help me become better at the other two as well, but that's what I got. Nice
1344. 01:39:19 All right, so I've got consider how I can redesign my work again. This is something that I mentioned
1345. 01:39:25 I've been doing this. I want to continue to do this. It's a good reminder to constantly be looking at the way that I do things
1346. 01:39:31 It's not really a specific thing. I'm gonna have results from next time, which is par for the course
1347. 01:39:38 Number two make a list of things I shouldn't be doing this one
1348. 01:39:41 You can't hold me accountable too
1349. 01:39:42 There are definitely things that I just do because it's part of the routine
1350. 01:39:45 And I haven't really thought about how can I work work smarter?
1351. 01:39:49 And I think this will be a an exercise that is going to be very illuminating
1352. 01:39:54 And then number three ask open-ended questions
1353. 01:39:58 This is something I want to apply specifically to meetings that I have to combat that group think where everybody just thinks like this
1354. 01:40:03 One idea that we have happens to be the best one
1355. 01:40:06 Right kind of playing devil's advocate or asking something like well, what do you think?
1356. 01:40:09 You know, not saying like do you agree disagree?
1357. 01:40:11 But asking those open-ended questions where they have to create something
1358. 01:40:15 On the spot. I see a lot of value in that in a lot of different arenas. Nice. So
1359. 01:40:21 Your choice, how did you write it? All right, so there's parts of this book
1360. 01:40:26 I would rate six stars if I could I absolutely loved it
1361. 01:40:29 There are also parts of this book, which you've heard me rant about here, which I didn't really like
1362. 01:40:34 Balancing those out though. I think I'm still going to give it. Ah, I'm torn between a four and a four point five
1363. 01:40:40 I'm going to go with a four
1364. 01:40:42 Just because I probably spent half of the time on this podcast reeling about some some of the things
1365. 01:40:46 But there's some really really cool ideas here
1366. 01:40:49 And if you were to look for one book to get a lot of the ideas across if like one book to recommend to somebody
1367. 01:40:56 Instead of like four or five different books from the last episode that we did
1368. 01:40:59 This would be the one that I would recommend to people
1369. 01:41:01 So it's a great book. I'm really glad that I I read it
1370. 01:41:04 There's a couple things that keep me from from rating it higher publicly
1371. 01:41:08 I think but definitely one that I'm going to go back and refer to over and over again. Nice
1372. 01:41:12 I will join you at the four point oh
1373. 01:41:15 And there are some sections like okay, what I disagree with you here
1374. 01:41:20 and
1375. 01:41:21 There are areas where I just got confused
1376. 01:41:24 But to your point there are also areas where like okay, you had me on
1377. 01:41:30 You had me outside
1378. 01:41:32 royally confused about what it is that I need to be doing
1379. 01:41:35 And got me to ask these really you know raw and honest questions that I haven't been asking myself so
1380. 01:41:42 kudos to
1381. 01:41:45 Hanson on that one, but yes, I'm with you. There are sections. I would rates definitely a five there are sections
1382. 01:41:51 I would give a two so time I average all that stuff out. I think it's probably somewhere around four
1383. 01:41:56 So that's where i'm gonna put it. I also think that
1384. 01:41:59 Morton Hanson is way smarter than I am and if I were to get a cup of coffee with him
1385. 01:42:03 He could explain to me the things that I have disagreements with and he would probably put me in my place
1386. 01:42:08 But as I stand here right now
1387. 01:42:11 I'm gonna give it four stars and also like I said in the last episode
1388. 01:42:15 It's interesting how like we rate a book based on its entirety. We just read it right but then a year or two years from now
1389. 01:42:21 What do you recall from this book? I have a feeling that this is going to be one of those books that stuff sticks with me
1390. 01:42:26 So in the future, you know, maybe this is four stars is too low for this book as I sit here right now though
1391. 01:42:32 I'm gonna give it four stars. All right put that one on the shelf
1392. 01:42:36 the next book coming up
1393. 01:42:39 The power of habit by Charles Duhigg
1394. 01:42:42 I have mentioned a few times in the last few episodes about wanting to build better habits and I bet theme continues to come up
1395. 01:42:49 So I think it's about time we talk about habits mike and what better book to do that with
1396. 01:42:56 Than the power of habit, which is kind of a classic in that realm
1397. 01:42:59 So I'm excited to go through this one with you. Nice. Yeah, this is definitely
1398. 01:43:04 One of those classic productivity books, which I've never read the whole thing. So be interesting
1399. 01:43:09 All right, mine is boundaries by Henry cloud, which has been
1400. 01:43:13 voted for by several people
1401. 01:43:15 Including my wife, which sorry guys her vote counts more than yours, but still I think it's uh got three or four votes in the
1402. 01:43:22 Bookworm club. So it's it's uh, I think the top vote getter
1403. 01:43:26 She read it. She absolutely loved it. I know Curtis mikael's talked about how great this book is
1404. 01:43:31 So I have high expectations for this one. Yeah as I look at the recommendations list right now
1405. 01:43:35 The number one voted book is great at work, which we just covered so as soon as this episode releases
1406. 01:43:42 I will close the recommendations voting and then this will become its placeholder
1407. 01:43:46 Uh, number two at the list i'm looking at right now is boundaries by Henry cloud. So yep, you know
1408. 01:43:52 Just picking them off one at a time. There you go
1409. 01:43:55 So it works for a gap book
1410. 01:43:57 I am picking up the pleasures of reading in an age of distraction go figure kind of my forever beating the drum thing of
1411. 01:44:07 Being fascinated with how technology screws with our heads. So can't help myself
1412. 01:44:12 Joe continues his list of analog books from the book. Yeah, no shame
1413. 01:44:18 All right, my gap book is a book that is not out yet
1414. 01:44:22 It is a galley copy that was sent to me by Chris bailey called hyper focus
1415. 01:44:26 Which is going to be available in august i believe so the productivity project is one of those books that we covered and i find myself
1416. 01:44:33 Going back to it over and over and over again
1417. 01:44:35 Uh, and so i'm excited about the topic of hyper focus. It kind of seems like his approach to
1418. 01:44:40 Deep work and and all those other types of books, but
1419. 01:44:43 I like chris bailey style and I think it's going to be a little bit different. So i'm excited to dive into this one
1420. 01:44:49 well, we've mentioned our
1421. 01:44:51 uh
1422. 01:44:53 recommendations list a few times now
1423. 01:44:55 uh, the way to get your book on or your your
1424. 01:44:58 Recommendation on that list go to club.bookworm.fm
1425. 01:45:03 Create a new topic there assign it to the recommendations list. It's that simple
1426. 01:45:06 And there's even a button in the menu that just hit recommend
1427. 01:45:10 And it'll fill out all the stuff for you. So join the club hit the recommend button get your book on the list
1428. 01:45:16 And then from there you can see all of the recommendations that have already been out there
1429. 01:45:21 If you do make a recommendation, make sure you hit the vote button
1430. 01:45:24 Because you can vote for books that have already been recommended, but you can vote for your own unlike me
1431. 01:45:29 Yeah vote for your own dude like come on
1432. 01:45:31 Mike won't vote for himself, but you can vote for yourself like that's that's the way you should do this
1433. 01:45:36 So yes club.bookworm.fm and that will get you all the stuff you need to do that
1434. 01:45:41 All right
1435. 01:45:41 And if you want to support bookworm you can do so in the next couple weeks by going to bookworm.fm/shirt
1436. 01:45:48 picking yourself up an awesome shirt or sweatshirt. We've got both
1437. 01:45:51 Or going to iTunes and leaving us a rating in review. I still have my personal vendetta against kcrw
1438. 01:45:58 I want to be the number one return for bookworm
1439. 01:46:00 But thanks to everybody who listens and supports the show. Thanks for making the t-shirt campaign successful
1440. 01:46:06 Really appreciate all of the feedback that we're getting in the club really appreciate everybody doing this with us
1441. 01:46:11 It's a lot more fun for sure. It's it's fun to have the whole community jump in on in a collected space
1442. 01:46:16 So it's a fun time
1443. 01:46:18 Yeah, I've really been enjoying that so hopefully you're making a bookworm a habit
1444. 01:46:22 If you're not you should join us next time and we will talk about habits with charles dohig in the power of habit