95: Stillness is the Key by Ryan Holiday

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1. 00:00:00 I'm still on bullet journal Mike.
2. 00:00:01 Nice.
3. 00:00:02 Are you?
4. 00:00:03 I am too, but it's not a bullet journal.
5. 00:00:05 So you're not on bullet journal.
6. 00:00:07 I'm on bullet journal light asterisk.
7. 00:00:11 [laughter]
8. 00:00:13 Bullet journal light asterisk.
9. 00:00:15 At some point the asterisk just should be rude.
10. 00:00:17 You know that.
11. 00:00:18 True.
12. 00:00:19 Well, okay.
13. 00:00:21 So I'm actually working on a pretty big article for this sweet setup.
14. 00:00:26 It'll be live by the time this goes out.
15. 00:00:29 So I'll put a link in the show notes.
16. 00:00:32 And it's so far over 3,500 words on my hybrid bullet journal productivity system.
17. 00:00:42 But I use an asterisk on the term bullet journal because I'm not doing it the way that
18. 00:00:47 writer Carol would endorse.
19. 00:00:50 But the elements of it that I am using are basically the daily log.
20. 00:00:54 Like everything starts and ends in the bullet journal at the beginning of my day.
21. 00:01:00 Everything like the whole plan is there, including the time blocking the tasks that
22. 00:01:04 I'm going to do in the day.
23. 00:01:05 And then I use it as my daily log to so everything gets captured there.
24. 00:01:10 And then after I capture everything there or actually the other place that I will capture
25. 00:01:15 things occasionally is drafts like I'll be out for a run.
26. 00:01:18 I have an idea.
27. 00:01:19 I'll use serial dictation to jot it down in drafts.
28. 00:01:24 But then ultimately all of that stuff ends up inside of room research along with mind maps
29. 00:01:29 from my node and sketch notes from good notes.
30. 00:01:32 And then Rome is the thing that I use to drive my tasks and to connect all of the ideas.
31. 00:01:41 I'll also pull in stuff from base camp and do my time blocking and stuff.
32. 00:01:45 I've actually got an image which is going to be in that article.
33. 00:01:49 I will share that here with the people who are joining us live.
34. 00:01:57 Give me just a second.
35. 00:01:58 When does this article go live?
36. 00:02:00 It will go live as we record this Tuesday, so a couple days before this.
37. 00:02:06 But this is my analog charting of my system.
38. 00:02:12 And I did this analog because it's more enjoyable.
39. 00:02:17 That's kind of the gist of the article is that I really enjoy using pen and paper.
40. 00:02:26 And I've incorporated the parts of the bullet journal that I liked with that and then basically
41. 00:02:32 offloaded all of the collections and the future logs, the monthly logs, all that kind
42. 00:02:38 of stuff.
43. 00:02:39 I'm still playing around with Rome.
44. 00:02:41 Had an article actually go out this week on the sweet set up about some of the ways that
45. 00:02:45 I'm using it with some videos and stuff.
46. 00:02:47 But I keep finding new and cool ways to connect things, which is kind of the point, the connected
47. 00:02:51 thoughts, not the filing cabinets, where you can go find something if you think about
48. 00:02:55 it, but just recognizing how things connect together.
49. 00:02:58 It takes a little bit more effort when you put stuff into it, but sure, I really like
50. 00:03:01 it.
51. 00:03:02 And I know you've been playing around with Obsidian.
52. 00:03:03 I think that does kind of the same sort of thing.
53. 00:03:05 There's a couple of reasons why I still like Rome.
54. 00:03:08 Big thing being linking to blocks, not headers or pages.
55. 00:03:13 I don't think you can do that currently with Obsidian.
56. 00:03:15 But Obsidian is a good app too, and it can totally do this sort of thing.
57. 00:03:19 So if you don't want to use Rome and you want to have control of your local text files,
58. 00:03:23 then Obsidian is a great recommendation that we picked up last time we recorded.
59. 00:03:28 Yeah.
60. 00:03:29 Yeah.
61. 00:03:30 I had someone mention it.
62. 00:03:31 It was either the last time or the time before that I originally became aware of it.
63. 00:03:36 I'm now on the beta for it because it actually makes sense and I can actually use my existing
64. 00:03:41 plain text file notes in a local directory.
65. 00:03:45 And open multiple local directories with it.
66. 00:03:49 Depending on how you set up your note structure like Mike's talking about, you can't link
67. 00:03:54 to blocks.
68. 00:03:56 They don't really have a concept of blocks because you have to think of it as these
69. 00:03:59 are markdown files.
70. 00:04:00 Yeah.
71. 00:04:01 So if you're thinking about markdown files, you can link to other notes with wiki links
72. 00:04:09 and they do have it to where you can link to other headers.
73. 00:04:12 So if you put in a header, you could link to it from another note as well.
74. 00:04:17 So depending on how you want to set things up, it just kind of depends on how your brain
75. 00:04:20 works and what you're trying to put into it, I think.
76. 00:04:23 I still have not delved into Rome because the more I see and learn about it, the less
77. 00:04:29 I like about it.
78. 00:04:31 So I know you have it as a mission to get me to at least try it.
79. 00:04:36 Like, well, I at least filled out the form for the beta to find out.
80. 00:04:40 Should I go down this road?
81. 00:04:42 At the same time, I know pricing for obsidian and pricing for Rome is definitely a thing
82. 00:04:48 that people are considering, but at the end of the day, I spend more time writing in my
83. 00:04:54 paper notebook than I do typing notes into a digital thing.
84. 00:05:00 So here we are in the analog world, fun times.
85. 00:05:05 Yeah.
86. 00:05:06 So I don't think, honestly, Rome, based on how you currently use stuff, is probably the
87. 00:05:10 right tool for you, but it is, for me, there's specific things that obsidian just wouldn't
88. 00:05:17 work unless I completely changed some stuff, which is fine.
89. 00:05:21 You know, maybe I could change some stuff and that would be a better way to do it.
90. 00:05:24 I don't know.
91. 00:05:25 I'm willing to be wrong, but I'm really enjoying Rome at the moment.
92. 00:05:30 And basically what it's done is it's consolidated all of the buckets for me.
93. 00:05:35 So I am currently playing with managing all of my tasks, personal tasks anyways, inside
94. 00:05:43 of Rome.
95. 00:05:44 It doesn't have repeating tasks.
96. 00:05:45 It doesn't have like a forecast view, but it has queries, which allows me to build basically
97. 00:05:52 like a my tasks page inside of Asana, where you can automatically pull in all the things
98. 00:05:57 that haven't been scheduled and automatically pull in all the things that are due today
99. 00:06:01 and all of the things that are tagged for some day, maybe or whatever, you know, queries
100. 00:06:06 are pretty cool.
101. 00:06:08 And I don't know.
102. 00:06:10 I need to still put it through its paces, but so far I'm really digging this system and
103. 00:06:18 having basically like one central place where everything goes that allows me to connect
104. 00:06:22 things.
105. 00:06:23 So when I have a task to write an article, I have the page for that article.
106. 00:06:26 I've got a, you know, inside of a room as an example or article maybe is a bad idea because
107. 00:06:31 I do that a little bit differently.
108. 00:06:33 Actually, I've got a Kanban board inside of Rome that checks my articles link to my Ulysses
109. 00:06:37 sheets.
110. 00:06:38 Nice.
111. 00:06:39 Nice.
112. 00:06:40 Of course.
113. 00:06:41 Yeah.
114. 00:06:42 But like being able to connect all that stuff is way better than putting the link to like
115. 00:06:45 an Evernote document inside of an OmniFocus task, which is how I would have done that back
116. 00:06:50 in the day.
117. 00:06:51 Sure.
118. 00:06:52 I'm finding I don't need a whole lot of test management power.
119. 00:06:55 I just need a simple place to keep some lists.
120. 00:06:58 And Rome kind of reminds me a lot of task paper in terms of the, the task management
121. 00:07:03 and some of the other stuff that you can do in it.
122. 00:07:05 So we will see.
123. 00:07:06 Nice.
124. 00:07:07 Nice.
125. 00:07:08 Well, the thing I've been doing a lot and I've brought up bullet journaling last four episodes
126. 00:07:15 now.
127. 00:07:16 Was it four episodes ago we actually went through the bullet journal method?
128. 00:07:20 Yeah.
129. 00:07:21 Forget how long ago it was.
130. 00:07:23 Episode 92.
131. 00:07:24 Okay.
132. 00:07:25 So it's been a little while now, but the thing I've been doing a lot with it, like I've done
133. 00:07:30 a couple monthly migrations actually live streamed my last monthly migration on Twitch.
134. 00:07:36 So I can get you a link to that one.
135. 00:07:37 All right.
136. 00:07:38 It's like a two hour long video of the whole process of doing a migration and we do it
137. 00:07:44 live together.
138. 00:07:45 Great fun.
139. 00:07:47 And had a number of people join that and have watched it since the thing with that type
140. 00:07:52 of live stream is you should know it's not really a, it's not like a YouTube video.
141. 00:07:57 It's not a thing where you sit down and watch it.
142. 00:07:58 Like the whole thing is just turn it on, keep working on things and we'll talk, you know,
143. 00:08:05 while you're doing other things.
144. 00:08:06 It's kind of a way to hang out together.
145. 00:08:08 So if that's something of interest to you, I am thinking about doing a couple, three more
146. 00:08:13 of these in the upcoming weeks.
147. 00:08:16 So great fun there.
148. 00:08:18 But there is one thing I'm doing, Mike, that we need to talk about here because I feel
149. 00:08:22 like in light of all the bullet journaling and pen and paper stuff, I've been working
150. 00:08:26 on a revamp of the analog Joe site.
151. 00:08:32 You started calling me analog Joe.
152. 00:08:33 I don't know how long.
153. 00:08:35 This is totally my fault.
154. 00:08:36 I sent you the domain and said this is available.
155. 00:08:39 100% he sends me this text.
156. 00:08:41 He's like, by the way, analog Joe dot com does exist and it is available.
157. 00:08:46 You bought it like six months before you launched anything.
158. 00:08:49 Yeah, I bought it right away.
159. 00:08:51 I don't think you knew what you were going to do with it.
160. 00:08:54 You just like, I need that.
161. 00:08:55 Correct.
162. 00:08:56 I needed to own it.
163. 00:08:57 I knew that, but I didn't know what to do with it.
164. 00:09:00 And I don't know how long ago it's been now, but I opened up a community around that.
165. 00:09:07 And that has kind of stagnated because I haven't had good direction on what that should
166. 00:09:13 be, but with a lot of some life circumstances and what I've been doing online or not doing
167. 00:09:20 online and such, I've learned quite a bit about myself and how those things should run
168. 00:09:26 and actually have my wife involved in this round of things that I'm doing because she's
169. 00:09:32 a lot more focused on what should or shouldn't be done in scenario.
170. 00:09:35 So she has been helping me through the process of doing a full blown relaunch of analog
171. 00:09:43 Joe.
172. 00:09:44 And I think I sent you, Mike, the link to the site that I'm rebuilding it into.
173. 00:09:49 And actually right now for those listening live, you can go to analog Joe.com for those
174. 00:09:54 listening to the recording of this, the full relaunch and stuff will be out by the time
175. 00:09:58 you hear this episode.
176. 00:10:00 But it is morphing into, if you're familiar with Tim Stringer and learn OmniFocus, it's
177. 00:10:06 going to mimic that process.
178. 00:10:15 Doing some things, I think the first one we're going to do is how to get started with the
179. 00:10:18 bullet journal because I feel like it's a really good place to start with it.
180. 00:10:22 So it is a membership site.
181. 00:10:25 So it is transformed into that.
182. 00:10:27 It's less community-esque and more video-based setup.
183. 00:10:32 So analog Joe.com.
184. 00:10:34 And I do have a discount that I'll give to Bookworm listeners, which will take half
185. 00:10:39 off at setup.
186. 00:10:42 And that is a forever discount.
187. 00:10:44 So just saying.
188. 00:10:46 That's a thing.
189. 00:10:47 So it's not ready and it's not launched right now as you and I are recording.
190. 00:10:50 But by the time this episode releases, it will be.
191. 00:10:53 So here's a way to hold Joe accountable to actually getting it all done and out the door
192. 00:10:57 in time.
193. 00:10:58 So much stuff is going to be ready in a couple of days.
194. 00:11:01 It's true.
195. 00:11:02 It's true.
196. 00:11:03 That's the way things work with us.
197. 00:11:04 I've got one more follow-up item actually, which isn't on the list.
198. 00:11:08 But I remember we talked about last time I wanted to re-evaluate my habits and consider
199. 00:11:18 the factors that were leading to some of my habits not sticking in particular, like
200. 00:11:22 the journaling one.
201. 00:11:25 And I bring this up since it's relevant.
202. 00:11:27 You're talking about the analog Joe thing.
203. 00:11:29 One of the things that I want to try is journaling in my bullet journal pen and paper.
204. 00:11:38 But I've already done a couple of things which have made it more successful.
205. 00:11:43 So as follow up from the last episode, basically what I was doing is getting to the end of
206. 00:11:48 the day being drained when I got the notification to journal in day one and resisting it.
207. 00:11:57 And I was questioning why am I resisting it.
208. 00:12:00 Well it turns out I was trying to do a lot of things in my evening routine because I
209. 00:12:05 had the time to do them, but I definitely did not have the energy to do them.
210. 00:12:08 So I was actually trying to plan my day, do the journaling, and then also if I had forgotten
211. 00:12:14 to do it, squeeze in a Spanish lesson.
212. 00:12:17 Well the Spanish lesson kind of drifted to the end of the day because that used to be
213. 00:12:22 something that I would do whenever I had a few minutes when I was out and about.
214. 00:12:26 And that was like an intentional thing I could do on my phone instead of checking Twitter.
215. 00:12:31 Like a positive use of my technology.
216. 00:12:34 Well I don't leave the house anymore.
217. 00:12:36 So I drove my car the other day for like the first time in three weeks just to make sure
218. 00:12:43 that it would still start.
219. 00:12:45 Well done sir.
220. 00:12:47 I have friends who are going on road trips.
221. 00:12:50 They don't go anywhere.
222. 00:12:51 They drive an hour north and they grab a snack that they packed with them.
223. 00:12:56 Turn around, drive home.
224. 00:12:57 I've been tempted to do that.
225. 00:13:00 So basically all that stuff was piling up at the end of the day.
226. 00:13:04 Like I said, well I had the time to do all of those things.
227. 00:13:06 I definitely didn't have the energy to do them all.
228. 00:13:08 So I'm trying to move the Spanish stuff to earlier in the day.
229. 00:13:13 I have incorporated the planning my day as part of my shutdown routine at the end of
230. 00:13:19 the day, which is the thing that I kind of just like kicked off.
231. 00:13:23 I would push it off and I didn't really take it seriously a lot of times.
232. 00:13:27 Like I'm going to work until whatever time and then I'll go do something else and then
233. 00:13:30 just like forget to do it.
234. 00:13:32 But putting that at the end of my work day actually makes the shutdown routine more sticky
235. 00:13:38 and helps me to process my drafts inbox and make sure that that's clean and all that
236. 00:13:44 type of stuff.
237. 00:13:45 So basically the planning my day thing, that has been the thing that like was rock solid.
238. 00:13:49 I continued to do that but by doing it at the end of my work day, four or five o'clock,
239. 00:13:54 that actually makes both the evening routine and the rest of the stuff I'm supposed to
240. 00:13:58 be doing with my shutdown routine more successful.
241. 00:14:00 So I think that's a win based on what we learned in tiny habits.
242. 00:14:05 Sure.
243. 00:14:06 Yeah.
244. 00:14:07 No, I think, you know, I haven't done a lot with tiny habits other than when we get to
245. 00:14:12 today's book.
246. 00:14:13 The number of things with that that I've been realizing have been amplified by what we went
247. 00:14:21 through in tiny habits, like how to implement some things.
248. 00:14:25 So sure.
249. 00:14:27 That's probably a good place there to jump into today's book, which is Stillness is the
250. 00:14:34 Key by Ryan Holiday.
251. 00:14:35 Now we've done one other book by Ryan Holiday, The Obstacle is the Way.
252. 00:14:41 That's way back.
253. 00:14:42 Yep.
254. 00:14:43 Like episode three or four, like it was it was single digits.
255. 00:14:46 It's been a while.
256. 00:14:47 So that one, I know we really enjoyed at the time and I think it's safe to say this is,
257. 00:14:56 I wouldn't say a repeat, but it's definitely a one.
258. 00:14:59 It's a book that I enjoyed reading for sure and have lots and lots and lots of thoughts
259. 00:15:06 about different aspects of it.
260. 00:15:09 But yeah, I mean, it's a book that I'm very likely to go through again at some point and
261. 00:15:15 I'm excited about going through here today.
262. 00:15:18 So anything you want to say about it before we jump into it?
263. 00:15:21 The Obstacle is the Way was episode four, by the way, real time follow up.
264. 00:15:27 But I think that the way that this book is laid out is interesting because I have a Bible
265. 00:15:34 college degree and one of the courses that I took was spirit, soul and body.
266. 00:15:42 And that's basically how he divides this book.
267. 00:15:46 This is not a religious text, but I thought it was interesting.
268. 00:15:50 Actually, he breaks it down into mind, spirit and body, but my Bible college curriculum
269. 00:15:55 would call the mind, the soul section.
270. 00:15:59 And I thought that was interesting how those things mapped.
271. 00:16:01 He actually does talk quite a bit about different religions in this book and how they support
272. 00:16:10 the points that he's making.
273. 00:16:13 So if you are turned off by religious talk, I apologize, but it's in this book.
274. 00:16:19 So it's going to come up.
275. 00:16:21 Yeah, it's kind of a whoops.
276. 00:16:25 Here we go.
277. 00:16:26 But he even mentions Christianity quite a bit, which I was not expecting.
278. 00:16:32 He mentions a lot of different religions, but one other thing about this, which I thought
279. 00:16:36 was really interesting, he mentions Christianity.
280. 00:16:39 Most people who mention Christianity who are not Christians, I don't really want to hear
281. 00:16:46 what you have to say.
282. 00:16:47 It's usually not very accurate, in my opinion.
283. 00:16:52 But I feel like he did a really good job.
284. 00:16:54 He knows his stuff.
285. 00:16:55 He does the research.
286. 00:16:56 He's talking about the Greek and Hebrew meanings of the words that they use and the sacred
287. 00:17:02 texts and things like that.
288. 00:17:03 So Ryan Holiday is, I've not met him, but he's got to be one of the smartest dudes that's
289. 00:17:10 alive.
290. 00:17:12 Just like a walking encyclopedia of knowledge.
291. 00:17:15 Right.
292. 00:17:16 Or at least super well read and still enough to actually have rational thoughts on things.
293. 00:17:23 So yeah.
294. 00:17:24 No, it's an interesting read.
295. 00:17:26 So yeah, I agree with you with the whole mind spirit body piece.
296. 00:17:32 It was interesting to me that that's laid out because that's a very, I don't want to
297. 00:17:37 say it's a Christian thing, but in religious circles that three part complex of sorts is
298. 00:17:44 one that is discussed and talked about and used as a framework very regularly.
299. 00:17:50 So it does not surprise me if you're going to step into something that's similar to stoicism
300. 00:17:57 or derives some of its basis from religion in any form.
301. 00:18:05 It's not surprising to see that breakout.
302. 00:18:07 So yeah, definitely of interest there.
303. 00:18:10 The first one that he he dives into here is the mind, which when he started there, I
304. 00:18:19 totally get it because you kind of have to start there in the realm of when you go through
305. 00:18:24 these three and there are, I guess I don't have it open right in front of me, but I can
306. 00:18:29 get it open.
307. 00:18:30 This is purely knowing your audience and knowing the people who are picking up a nonfiction
308. 00:18:35 book.
309. 00:18:36 What is probably dominant in their own lives.
310. 00:18:40 Right.
311. 00:18:41 Right.
312. 00:18:42 He totally played that.
313. 00:18:43 There are quite a few like these are fairly short chapters.
314. 00:18:46 There's a lot of chapters in this book.
315. 00:18:48 It is 257 pages long.
316. 00:18:53 It's a small book.
317. 00:18:54 So those are actually small pages.
318. 00:18:56 Yeah.
319. 00:18:57 So it's not super, super like it.
320. 00:18:59 It doesn't feel like a 250 page book, even though it is.
321. 00:19:02 And most of the chapters are a couple of pages, but they're all kind of formulated the
322. 00:19:08 same way.
323. 00:19:09 He's got a story.
324. 00:19:10 He's got his point.
325. 00:19:11 And then kind of at the end usually is like a rallying cry or a call to action.
326. 00:19:16 He's a very, very good writer.
327. 00:19:17 A lot of these chapters could have been a lot longer, but he does a great job of condensing
328. 00:19:21 things down to short phrases.
329. 00:19:25 And it's really easy and entertaining to read.
330. 00:19:27 Yeah.
331. 00:19:28 So the, and I don't want to cover all of these.
332. 00:19:30 I've just got a couple points, two, three points per each of these.
333. 00:19:34 So we've got, what is it?
334. 00:19:35 Seven talking points here.
335. 00:19:36 Yeah.
336. 00:19:37 So what we'll do is we'll talk about the sections and the chapter markers and the episode will
337. 00:19:40 be based off of the sections, but we'll pick out a couple things from the sections and
338. 00:19:43 not go through all the chapters because that would be impossible.
339. 00:19:46 Right.
340. 00:19:47 It's so true.
341. 00:19:48 So let me just read off what the chapters are under the part one for mind.
342. 00:19:53 Just because you can make a, I don't want to say assumptions, but you can get the gist
343. 00:19:58 of it just from the chapter titles.
344. 00:20:00 I can't say that you get the whole point until you read it, of course, but it'll at
345. 00:20:05 least get you the overarching on it.
346. 00:20:08 So here we go.
347. 00:20:09 The domain of the mind, which he does that in every part, he has like the first chapter
348. 00:20:13 is it's explaining what it is, what it is he's about to go through.
349. 00:20:16 And then he dives into become present, limit your inputs, empty the mind, slow down, think
350. 00:20:24 deeply, start journaling, cultivate silence, seek wisdom, find confidence, avoid ego, let
351. 00:20:32 go.
352. 00:20:33 And then at the end of every part, he has a onto what's next outside of the last one
353. 00:20:39 in which he just says onto the final act.
354. 00:20:42 So that's kind of the lay of the land for the first part.
355. 00:20:47 And the one that probably the first one that jumped out at me in the midst of all of this
356. 00:20:55 was the journaling piece.
357. 00:20:56 We were talking about this a little bit earlier.
358. 00:20:58 And I have had this on and off again relationship with journaling.
359. 00:21:03 I've never fully embraced it in a long term successful scenario.
360. 00:21:10 I think the longest I've ever journaled without breaks is about three weeks.
361. 00:21:16 I know it's not over a month.
362. 00:21:17 I'm aware of that, which is a confession in itself.
363. 00:21:22 So yes, I came away from that convicted for sure.
364. 00:21:28 There's so much in these little chapters.
365. 00:21:31 The mind node file for this basically has a couple of points from each of these.
366. 00:21:35 I didn't try to even keep up with all the stories that he was telling.
367. 00:21:39 But he mentions in the journaling section a couple of things which I thought were important.
368. 00:21:45 Number one, how you journal is much less important than why to get something off of your chest.
369. 00:21:51 And that kind of got me thinking about why mentioned in the follow up section to the
370. 00:21:58 tiny habits thing, how I want to start journaling in my bullet journal.
371. 00:22:03 And again, apologies to writer Carol for calling it that.
372. 00:22:06 I just don't have a term yet.
373. 00:22:09 It's a six-hacky hybrid journal system.
374. 00:22:12 Just call it journaling.
375. 00:22:15 But I do find myself wanting to use pen and paper as often as possible.
376. 00:22:22 So I set up everything the day before with the time blocking and the tasks.
377. 00:22:27 I use it for daily logging.
378. 00:22:29 I find that when I am attending meetings and taking notes, even though the meetings are
379. 00:22:35 probably on zoom on my computer and drafts is right there, I still take them pen and
380. 00:22:42 paper because I like to.
381. 00:22:44 And my notes throughout my day sometimes span several pages.
382. 00:22:49 When I want to just like make a quick list of things that happens in the journal, when
383. 00:22:53 I want to just kick around an idea, I'll do some sketching inside of the journal, the
384. 00:22:57 bigger stuff like mind mapping for an article or whatever, that still happens inside of
385. 00:23:01 my note and the sketch notes, like the sermon notes and stuff, that still happens in good
386. 00:23:06 notes.
387. 00:23:07 But basically everything else I'm trying to use the bullet journal for.
388. 00:23:10 And every time I do, I really, really like it.
389. 00:23:13 And I love the fact that I can rip out my pages because they're circuit punched and I
390. 00:23:18 can put in some new ones.
391. 00:23:20 Like I don't worry about running out of space.
392. 00:23:22 I don't worry about do I want this to remain in the notebook and I don't want to have to
393. 00:23:27 write it again.
394. 00:23:28 You know, I understand why you shouldn't worry about that anyways, but I do.
395. 00:23:36 And so this is the thing that's finally like released me mentally, not to worry about that.
396. 00:23:40 And so I'm writing everything in here.
397. 00:23:43 And I want to kind of change my journaling setup at the end of the day.
398. 00:23:47 I've always used these prompts and I've always thought like these are the prompts that I
399. 00:23:51 should use the prompt really makes the journaling practice.
400. 00:23:54 Ryan Holiday is basically saying no.
401. 00:23:56 You're wrong.
402. 00:23:58 You just got to do it.
403. 00:24:01 He also says that journaling isn't for the reader.
404. 00:24:03 It's for the writer.
405. 00:24:04 And I think there's some truth to that.
406. 00:24:06 You know, just sorting through emotionally like what happened today, especially as we
407. 00:24:10 record this the last couple of weeks have been a whirlwind.
408. 00:24:14 And I've been wrestling with some stuff.
409. 00:24:18 So like why not do that paper pen in my notebook?
410. 00:24:24 I guess I'll report back next time if that really like sticks, but really what I want
411. 00:24:29 to have happen here is just at the end of the day, right down even a couple of sentences
412. 00:24:34 about what am I feeling right now?
413. 00:24:38 And doesn't have to do with what time I got up this morning.
414. 00:24:41 My biggest accomplishment was whether I went for a run, any of that stuff, like all the
415. 00:24:45 daily logging or quantified self stuff.
416. 00:24:48 I'm ready to just check it out the window.
417. 00:24:51 And I just want to process through some thoughts before I go to bed.
418. 00:24:56 That's the goal anyways.
419. 00:24:58 Yeah, I would say like in the book, he explains how journaling is more about helping yourself
420. 00:25:06 decipher what your thoughts and feelings are about events that happen throughout the day.
421. 00:25:11 Like I feel like that's what he was really getting at.
422. 00:25:16 And I think that's the part that I've missed.
423. 00:25:19 Because I think I'm like you, I've always considered like the prompts and having a certain question
424. 00:25:25 you answer every day.
425. 00:25:26 Like I get that, but I'm ADD and can't focus on the same silly thing every single night
426. 00:25:31 because it's boring after week three.
427. 00:25:34 So I like the freedom of not having anything specific lockdown and just having a few thoughts
428. 00:25:44 about what happened in that day.
429. 00:25:47 Like usually there's something either pretty good or pretty bad that happened and I need
430. 00:25:51 to process what I'm thinking about it.
431. 00:25:53 This is also where like people often say like I don't know what I think until I've written
432. 00:25:58 out an article on it or published a blog post or you know done a podcast about it.
433. 00:26:04 The whole unpublished thought concept, which I get that, but at the same time I was like,
434. 00:26:09 okay, I have so many of those that it's it would take me forever to just write what happened
435. 00:26:15 in one day.
436. 00:26:16 It would not work out.
437. 00:26:19 So yeah, I think that was an appointment which I realized that for me journaling is something
438. 00:26:25 I should be doing at night and I just need to process my thoughts.
439. 00:26:30 If if something rough happened that day, you know, I'm I'm in Minnesota in the midst
440. 00:26:36 of all the police and protests and riots and stuff that's happening right now.
441. 00:26:41 It is not far from my house.
442. 00:26:43 I'm not in the thick of it, but it's definitely, you know, I would not have to drive very far
443. 00:26:48 to run into things and we've had protests and stuff here in our town.
444. 00:26:51 So there is that to work through like that is not something that's simple to get your
445. 00:26:59 thoughts around.
446. 00:27:00 I mean, for some people it is because they've been thinking about it and working through
447. 00:27:04 it for a long time.
448. 00:27:06 I am not one of those people and I feel like I need to process that and you know, I am
449. 00:27:14 with you as well in the world of this should live in my bullet journal.
450. 00:27:18 So technically how I'm doing this, I have a specific pin to Twizzbee Diamond 580 with
451. 00:27:27 a fine nib and Noodler's Black ink for those who care.
452. 00:27:32 This is specific now.
453. 00:27:34 And all I'm doing is at the end of my daily log, I just reserve three or four or ten lines,
454. 00:27:39 whatever it needs to be.
455. 00:27:40 And I just write out whatever it is it's bothering me.
456. 00:27:43 I write pretty small so I can get a lot of words in that span.
457. 00:27:48 And that is how I end my day is by going through that process and just putting my thoughts
458. 00:27:54 down on paper so that I can get it out of my head and I can actually think clearly.
459. 00:28:00 I sleep a lot better when I do this, Mike.
460. 00:28:04 So which is a thing he points out for sure.
461. 00:28:06 Yep, yeah, he does.
462. 00:28:08 And this emphasis on not carrying around the mental baggage and putting the things on the
463. 00:28:17 paper that reminds me a lot of the morning pages except not in the morning, but that's
464. 00:28:27 stream of conscious.
465. 00:28:29 Evening writings.
466. 00:28:30 Yeah.
467. 00:28:32 And I did have a thought to try that again, but I immediately suppressed it because it
468. 00:28:37 takes so much time.
469. 00:28:38 Yeah, I remember it was like 45 minutes in the morning for me.
470. 00:28:42 I don't have that kind of time anymore.
471. 00:28:44 Yeah.
472. 00:28:46 But I do think that that would be a valuable practice.
473. 00:28:49 I'm not sure if I want to codify that yet and say this is something that I'm going to
474. 00:28:56 build into my system.
475. 00:28:57 But I think that defaulting to expressing how I'm feeling in a notebook multiple times
476. 00:29:08 per day would definitely have a positive effect on not just how I'm feeling emotionally,
477. 00:29:17 but also mentally probably allowing me to engage with the work that I'm supposed to be
478. 00:29:21 doing in the middle of the day a little bit more effectively.
479. 00:29:24 This week has been rough specifically where you mentioned I've been wrestling through
480. 00:29:29 some stuff.
481. 00:29:30 One of the things that I've been thinking about not to completely go down this rabbit
482. 00:29:35 hole, but I've been thinking about how to explain what's going on to my kids.
483. 00:29:44 And I'm struggling with that, which means that I'm not really doing that.
484. 00:29:52 And that in and of itself, I recognize is a bit of a privilege that if I don't bring
485. 00:29:56 it up, they don't even know that this is happening because they're not living in the
486. 00:30:00 middle of it every day.
487. 00:30:01 But I have African American friends who live nearby and I've been thinking about them and
488. 00:30:05 like, what kind of conversations are they having with their kids?
489. 00:30:09 I hurts my heart to think about that stuff.
490. 00:30:15 And I realize that instead of trying to just think about it in my head and feel bad about
491. 00:30:21 it, that I should probably one of the more effective things that I could do.
492. 00:30:26 Well, first of all, I mean, there's a whole there's a whole section in here about the
493. 00:30:31 spirit.
494. 00:30:32 So I do believe in the power of prayer.
495. 00:30:33 I need to be praying about it more.
496. 00:30:35 But also I think I could organize my thoughts a bit better if I took the time to write them
497. 00:30:42 down.
498. 00:30:43 It's very fair.
499. 00:30:44 It's a thing I've been trying to do.
500. 00:30:45 We can't really avoid.
501. 00:30:46 Like we've had a lot of conversations with our kids about things because where we are,
502. 00:30:52 you can't get away from it.
503. 00:30:53 So there's not really that option, which I don't want that option, frankly.
504. 00:30:59 We've just been in a place where like, I wouldn't say our town is really super diverse, but
505. 00:31:05 it's not exclusive on one race or another.
506. 00:31:10 So we've had a lot of conversations with our girls in the past.
507. 00:31:14 So I don't want to make this all about current events, but it's a thing that we have had
508. 00:31:18 to talk about.
509. 00:31:20 And I know that for me, journaling out my own thoughts about it makes it possible for
510. 00:31:26 me to have a better and more thought out conversation with them about it.
511. 00:31:30 It also works the other way, Mike, because trying to explain it to a five year old forces
512. 00:31:39 you to dumb things down at a level where you things don't always, they're not rational.
513. 00:31:44 And you start to explain it to them, say, well, you see some people think this and they are
514. 00:31:50 absolutely wrong.
515. 00:31:51 So you have to explain it in a way that they can understand.
516. 00:31:55 But anyway, all of this to say journaling, I've been doing it now at the end of my daily
517. 00:32:02 log as part of my PM bullet journal.
518. 00:32:06 For those who joined me on the live stream this past Monday, so that was the first June
519. 00:32:13 first, you know that I'm bad at doing my PM bullet journal.
520. 00:32:18 So I'm getting better now because whenever I do the journaling bit at night and just
521. 00:32:22 process my thoughts at that time, it works out really well.
522. 00:32:26 So that's a thing there.
523. 00:32:28 Now there's another section in this part about the mind, Mike, that I feel like we must cover.
524. 00:32:35 And there's not a specific chapter on it.
525. 00:32:37 I don't think it's actually covered, I think, in two or three chapters within this.
526. 00:32:41 But the world of meditation, again, here we go.
527. 00:32:48 I would love to know how many times we've had this conversation about meditation.
528. 00:32:54 It comes up a lot.
529. 00:32:55 Yeah, I don't even know.
530. 00:32:59 It is a lot.
531. 00:33:00 We haven't actually done a book 100% on meditation, have we?
532. 00:33:02 I don't think we have.
533. 00:33:04 I don't think so.
534. 00:33:06 It would have to be 10% happier, I think.
535. 00:33:08 He's got a how-to book, 10% happier is his story.
536. 00:33:12 But he's got a how-to book called Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics or something like that.
537. 00:33:18 That's what it is.
538. 00:33:19 That would be the one if we did cover it.
539. 00:33:22 That would be it.
540. 00:33:23 That's true.
541. 00:33:24 I'm not going to pick that one for next.
542. 00:33:26 I'm just going to say that.
543. 00:33:30 I do know that for me and ADD people, they say that meditation is super helpful.
544. 00:33:37 If you look at the non-medication routes of treating it that's towards the top of the
545. 00:33:42 list almost every time.
546. 00:33:47 Ryan Holiday talks a lot about emptying your mind and the benefits of being able to do
547. 00:33:51 that so that when rough or high velocity conversations and events occur, it would help
548. 00:33:59 you to slow down and make better rational decisions.
549. 00:34:03 That's probably the way to explain it.
550. 00:34:06 That means you have to meditate regularly, Mike.
551. 00:34:10 I think meditation, because you're right, there isn't a specific section on this.
552. 00:34:16 What he's talking about is stillness.
553. 00:34:18 This is exactly what I view mindfulness meditation as.
554. 00:34:23 I think a lot of people are turned off, a lot of spiritual people maybe are turned off
555. 00:34:27 to the idea of meditation because they associate it with at least in my circles.
556. 00:34:32 They associate it with an Eastern religion, but there really isn't a spiritual aspect
557. 00:34:37 of it when you're just talking about mindfulness meditation.
558. 00:34:40 There are different aspects of it.
559. 00:34:43 Vipasana, I think, is another one.
560. 00:34:46 There's some other flavors of this, which I don't like to get into.
561. 00:34:51 I think that in terms of training your brain to let things go and to focus on just your
562. 00:34:58 breath, that has got absolutely physical and mental benefits.
563. 00:35:06 Like you, I think, maybe based on what I am hearing, I have struggled maintaining a
564. 00:35:13 meditation habit.
565. 00:35:15 When I read this section again, because this was a gap book for me originally, the thing
566. 00:35:21 that stood out to me was that meditation could be an effective practice to create stillness,
567. 00:35:28 but so could journaling and so could a bunch of other things.
568. 00:35:32 So I don't know exactly yet where I land on.
569. 00:35:37 Is this something that I feel like I should pick up again or not?
570. 00:35:41 I think the next thing for me is to step up the journaling and to break away from the
571. 00:35:49 prompts that I have relied on for so many years.
572. 00:35:55 This might be a step after that, but I don't know that it's necessary.
573. 00:36:03 For sure, if you're trying to achieve maximum stillness, then yes, I would say it probably
574. 00:36:07 is necessary.
575. 00:36:09 But if you're just trying to achieve more stillness, my interpretation of this section
576. 00:36:13 is that there's a couple different tactics you can employ to help you get to that point.
577. 00:36:20 And for me, journaling is the next step.
578. 00:36:23 Sure.
579. 00:36:24 Yeah, no, it makes sense.
580. 00:36:25 I feel like we didn't actually explain stillness.
581. 00:36:28 Have we done that?
582. 00:36:30 My brain is bouncing and I can't recall.
583. 00:36:33 I feel like that's probably the place we should start with this whole thing.
584. 00:36:36 But here we are.
585. 00:36:38 Well, we jumped into the first section and in the first, by the time you read the first
586. 00:36:42 section, it kind of assumes that you understand what stillness is.
587. 00:36:48 There is an introduction, which is fairly short.
588. 00:36:50 I don't have a whole lot of notes on the introduction, but I do have this quote which
589. 00:36:53 I'll share here because a lot of this is based in stoic philosophy.
590. 00:37:00 He says to Seneca and to his fellow adherents of stoic philosophy, if a person could develop
591. 00:37:04 peace within themselves, they could achieve a pathia, as they called it, then the whole
592. 00:37:08 world could be at war and they could still think well, work well and be well.
593. 00:37:13 So that's kind of what you're striving for is like an inner peace, regardless of what
594. 00:37:20 is happening around you.
595. 00:37:22 And he talks about the domain of the mind.
596. 00:37:24 We need stillness to be present, to empty our mind of preconceptions, to take a time,
597. 00:37:28 so quietly reflect, reject distraction, way advice, be deliberate, all of these types
598. 00:37:34 of things without being paralyzed.
599. 00:37:36 So I think most people anyways who are listening to this probably have an idea of what stillness
600. 00:37:43 is because this is like every, this is what all the productivity people talk about in
601. 00:37:48 terms of focus or flow, I would, I would argue.
602. 00:37:52 But in this book, he's not talking about it as something to be achieved.
603. 00:37:58 It's like a state of being that you fight for.
604. 00:38:01 And then these three sections, this is like the three different arenas that it could play
605. 00:38:04 out in.
606. 00:38:05 And all the chapters are basically just things that you can do to cultivate it.
607. 00:38:09 Yep.
608. 00:38:10 I am trying meditation again though.
609. 00:38:13 Because it's what we do when we read about meditation, at least it's what I do.
610. 00:38:16 So my, I have my manual habit tracker in the back of my bullet journal and meditation
611. 00:38:21 is on there.
612. 00:38:22 Although last month I only did it a couple of times.
613. 00:38:25 Okay.
614. 00:38:26 I've done it a couple of times this week, which I feel like is an improvement for me.
615. 00:38:32 I've been working through a lot of difficult things for Joe mentally, given like all the
616. 00:38:43 scenarios and such that are hat like COVID-19 and rioting and protests and police brutality
617. 00:38:50 and all that stuff aside before all of that I had some things I've been struggling with
618. 00:38:56 that are just pure mental issues, maybe not issues, but dysfunctions of sorts that I'm
619. 00:39:02 learning about from.
620. 00:39:03 And this is partly why I've been talking about ADD more often lately just because I'm learning
621. 00:39:10 that's like the crux of a lot of those issues.
622. 00:39:13 But you know, as a result of all that I'm learning, like I have to slow down.
623. 00:39:19 Like otherwise my mental game is going to collapse.
624. 00:39:22 So I'm trying to work through that and world events have simply complicated the matter.
625. 00:39:30 Again, there's nothing wrong with that per se.
626. 00:39:33 It's just a thing that I have to to process.
627. 00:39:36 So as a result of all that I've been having lots and lots of conversations about where
628. 00:39:40 my time goes, what I'm working on, what should get my focus and such.
629. 00:39:44 I've been having a lot of those conversations primarily with my wife who is now becoming
630. 00:39:50 more involved in like what those decisions are because Joe has a tendency to just bounce
631. 00:39:56 from thing to thing.
632. 00:39:57 If you have been close to me for any length of time, you know this.
633. 00:40:02 Like how many times do I get a hairbrained idea and run off with it and then you know
634. 00:40:05 a month later it's completely off the radar.
635. 00:40:07 I have no idea what's going on.
636. 00:40:09 It's Joe.
637. 00:40:10 I'm aware of that in trying to figure out how to keep it under control and the things
638. 00:40:16 that I'm learning from specialists and people around me is that like I have to try to process
639. 00:40:22 my thoughts, thus the journaling.
640. 00:40:24 So I have that I guess as an action item to be doing that more often.
641. 00:40:29 I continue to have people telling me about meditation and it's a thing I need to do.
642. 00:40:34 So then reading this doesn't help the matter and has me exploring that concept yet again.
643. 00:40:40 But I've had cases in the past where that has struck me and it's a thing I've wanted
644. 00:40:46 to become more routine.
645. 00:40:50 I might be reaching a point where it's almost vital.
646. 00:40:54 So I need to I got to get this one under control I think.
647. 00:40:58 So here we are.
648. 00:41:01 We'll try it again.
649. 00:41:04 I have a have a like a whole tick mark thing which now there's video of it for how I do
650. 00:41:12 the habit tracking.
651. 00:41:14 Are you doing it the same way I'm doing it in the boudgeau or do you have a different
652. 00:41:17 way of doing that minus the pretty graphs.
653. 00:41:20 But yeah, so you do the dot thing.
654. 00:41:23 Yep.
655. 00:41:24 Yeah, that's kind of a cool way to do it.
656. 00:41:25 But that is a way I've found like because I'm checking in with those habits a few times
657. 00:41:30 in a day.
658. 00:41:31 So it does help me try to keep things updating.
659. 00:41:36 That's a thing that I have found is helpful is seeing those dots and seeing them line up.
660. 00:41:42 So analog for the win.
661. 00:41:45 Yep, I agree.
662. 00:41:49 One other thing from this section on limit your inputs.
663. 00:41:53 He talked about how Napoleon wouldn't open his mail for three weeks and how he loved
664. 00:41:57 to note how many important issues had resolved themselves.
665. 00:42:01 I immediately thought of email and all of the pressure that's associated with responding
666. 00:42:09 immediately.
667. 00:42:10 And I get it that sometimes you're in a position where you can't do anything about that.
668. 00:42:16 But I love that Napoleon did this and basically the call is to limit your inputs.
669. 00:42:23 This is interesting and it's one of my action items to consider this because as we're recording
670. 00:42:28 it, we are kind of going back to we're coming out of quarantine, I guess.
671. 00:42:37 Things are opening up and returning to normal.
672. 00:42:44 And my wife and I in the middle of this, we're talking and mentioning that like we don't
673. 00:42:50 want to just go back to the way things were.
674. 00:42:53 We want to reconsider the things that were committed to and look for alternative ways
675. 00:43:01 to do things maybe than the way we had been doing them.
676. 00:43:05 One example of that is like we used to be at the local music shop all night on Monday
677. 00:43:11 nights for piano lessons, but we've been doing them virtually and kids have been doing great
678. 00:43:16 with those.
679. 00:43:17 So can we continue that?
680. 00:43:18 And if those teachers don't want to do that because they prefer the way that they were
681. 00:43:21 doing things, maybe we can find some other teachers that are.
682. 00:43:24 Because then we don't have to travel, we don't have to sit there, we don't have to keep a
683. 00:43:27 two year old busy.
684. 00:43:29 It just simplifies everything and we have more stillness because we've limited the inputs
685. 00:43:36 or at least rethought the inputs.
686. 00:43:39 So it's not just the things like the email that's buying for your attention.
687. 00:43:42 I feel like it's the commitments that you voluntarily sign up for.
688. 00:43:47 And this has kind of been like a reset period.
689. 00:43:48 So everybody has the opportunity to rethink things and to say, you know what, I'm not
690. 00:43:53 going to do that anymore.
691. 00:43:54 Or at least if you just need a little bit more time, I think there's a lot of understanding
692. 00:43:59 for people who would say, you know what, I'm just not ready for that right now.
693. 00:44:06 I'm not going to jump back into the way we were doing things quite yet.
694. 00:44:10 You guys go ahead.
695. 00:44:12 I'll catch up.
696. 00:44:15 But if you need a little bit more time just to think things through, I think that's an
697. 00:44:19 understandable and acceptable response right now.
698. 00:44:23 Yeah.
699. 00:44:24 It's easier to get away with it right now.
700. 00:44:26 Yep.
701. 00:44:27 So there's that.
702. 00:44:28 Let's go on to the next part here.
703. 00:44:30 So part two is spirit.
704. 00:44:33 And I want to do what I did last time.
705. 00:44:35 Let's just read through these chapters.
706. 00:44:36 We've got two of them specifically that we'll dive into.
707. 00:44:40 But he starts off with the domain of the soul.
708. 00:44:42 You know, he starts them all off with the domain of.
709. 00:44:45 So the domain of the soul, choose virtue, heal the inner child, beware, desire, enough,
710. 00:44:54 bathe in beauty, accept a higher power, interrelationships, conquer your anger, all is one, and then again,
711. 00:45:03 onto what's next.
712. 00:45:04 And the first one of these that I think there's a lot of things we could go through like defining
713. 00:45:10 what is virtue and what do each of these stand for.
714. 00:45:12 But the one I think that embodies a lot of the other pieces to some degree or another
715. 00:45:19 is enough.
716. 00:45:21 And again, he tells all kinds of stories about some prominent leaders and sports figures,
717. 00:45:29 both their successes and their failures.
718. 00:45:31 And in a lot of cases, if he touts one particular individual, he'll tell a story later that
719. 00:45:34 completely shows you they're human.
720. 00:45:38 He talks about how great John F. Kennedy was in the Cuban Missile Crisis and then turns
721. 00:45:44 around and shows how he had demons of his own that he was fighting and potentially ruined
722. 00:45:51 a lot of relationships in the process.
723. 00:45:52 So if he touts one person, he's very commonly showing the other side of the coin and one
724. 00:46:00 of the ones.
725. 00:46:01 Pick Tiger Woods apart.
726. 00:46:02 Yeah, he completely tears Tiger Woods apart.
727. 00:46:05 And I should say like this is an interesting thing in Ryan Holiday's style is that he's
728. 00:46:10 basically psychoanalyzing these people and pointing out all of their flaws.
729. 00:46:17 But you don't feel like he's a jerk for doing it because he has done so much research and
730. 00:46:26 he writes so factually and so well that it's very easy to read.
731. 00:46:32 I do think there is another version of this book somewhere where you read these stories
732. 00:46:37 and you just feel depressed because there's some bad stuff that's going on here.
733. 00:46:42 But that's not the feeling you get after reading this stuff.
734. 00:46:47 It's more like he's pointing out the pitfalls like be careful to stay away from this because
735. 00:46:51 even Tiger Woods, even John F. Kennedy, they struggled with this.
736. 00:46:55 Yeah, kind of puts things in a light where I feel a little bit better about myself.
737. 00:47:00 I was like, okay.
738. 00:47:02 But the piece here, he talks about enough and he mentions this word elsewhere actually
739. 00:47:08 in the story of Tiger Woods where his dad gave him a safe word.
740. 00:47:13 His dad kind of would berate him and drag him down if you know his past on like whenever
741. 00:47:19 he was actually practicing golf, he would try to throw him off his game and you know insult
742. 00:47:25 him regularly as he's golfing.
743. 00:47:28 Kind of improve his mental strength, but they had a safe word, enough.
744. 00:47:35 And they called it the E word because they didn't want to say it.
745. 00:47:37 It was almost an expletive to them.
746. 00:47:39 And that was the stopping of negative in that case.
747. 00:47:44 That's not what he's referring to here.
748. 00:47:46 In this case, he's referring to enough in a very positive light in knowing when you have
749. 00:47:53 reached the point where you have enough money, you don't need to keep pursuing more because
750. 00:47:58 pursuing more is just going to make you a terrible person.
751. 00:48:02 When that sort of line is crossed, you need to know when you've reached that point of
752. 00:48:08 enough.
753. 00:48:09 And I think this is important in a lot of arenas.
754. 00:48:12 And it's one that we don't do well with in general.
755. 00:48:15 At least I don't.
756. 00:48:19 Here's an example.
757. 00:48:20 And this is going to like might be upset for me saying this.
758. 00:48:24 When is enough books?
759. 00:48:26 Okay, he's, you know, so we've started doing video chat and Mike just took his headphones
760. 00:48:31 off and pretended to walk away.
761. 00:48:33 I'm sorry.
762. 00:48:36 So you know, that's a question.
763. 00:48:38 Like when have you reached that point where you have enough books?
764. 00:48:42 Like, I don't know that I would say there's a point where I would say I've read enough
765. 00:48:46 books, like read enough books.
766. 00:48:49 There's probably a limit to ownership of books.
767. 00:48:51 Like there's probably a point at which you shouldn't buy more.
768. 00:48:55 I don't know where that line is.
769. 00:48:57 Don't care to find that line.
770. 00:48:59 But when is enough happen?
771. 00:49:00 When has enough happened?
772. 00:49:02 When has finances is the easy one?
773. 00:49:04 When have you had enough?
774. 00:49:06 When is your salary or your income enough for you to feel comfortable?
775. 00:49:12 And when, when have you reached a point where you have enough friendships?
776. 00:49:18 You know, where are those lines?
777. 00:49:21 And can you recognize them whenever you hit those?
778. 00:49:24 So many people are just, you know, once they achieve one thing, they're on to the next.
779. 00:49:28 And the achievement of a thing that they've been striving for is bittersweet.
780. 00:49:33 Like, yes, you've achieved it, but now you have nothing to live for and you, you're not
781. 00:49:38 content.
782. 00:49:39 You're not able to sit back and enjoy the fact that you have a life that's worth living
783. 00:49:45 without needing the achievement or something to reach.
784. 00:49:48 When have you reached that point?
785. 00:49:49 Yeah.
786. 00:49:50 Page 121, he says, we get to the finish line only to think.
787. 00:49:54 This is it?
788. 00:49:55 Now what?
789. 00:49:57 And that hit me because I literally had that happen to me after I ran my first half marathon.
790. 00:50:06 I was training for like a year and a half actually over-trained.
791. 00:50:09 My patella tendons slipped off my kneecap on the side of my leg.
792. 00:50:13 And I had been training for a long time.
793. 00:50:15 I was going to run the thing anyway, so I did.
794. 00:50:18 And immediately after I crossed the finish line, like they put the metal around your
795. 00:50:21 neck, you're walking through your grab in the banana.
796. 00:50:23 I got water there for you like 10 seconds later.
797. 00:50:29 I had this go through my head like, okay, I ran my half marathon.
798. 00:50:33 Now what?
799. 00:50:35 I knew that I'd hurt my knee and I had physical therapy ahead of me.
800. 00:50:38 So I knew I couldn't run.
801. 00:50:39 The natural next thing is like find another race to run, but I couldn't do that.
802. 00:50:43 And this is my big problem with goals because you can achieve a goal and then, does this
803. 00:50:51 fit?
804. 00:50:52 What do I do?
805. 00:50:54 I guess I find another goal.
806. 00:50:55 I guess I push a little bit harder.
807. 00:50:57 And that's really at the heart of the scrum model that we read that book.
808. 00:51:02 And I really like a lot about scrum, but in hearing in scrum is that that idea where
809. 00:51:07 like once you've accomplished everything that you set out to do, then you push yourself
810. 00:51:12 to do a little bit more.
811. 00:51:14 And that's the thing that just drives me nuts.
812. 00:51:16 So enough, I think from a physical standpoint for me, I had to learn to love the process.
813. 00:51:23 I had to relearn how to run.
814. 00:51:25 I had to take six weeks off, then I started running again, increased my distance too fast,
815. 00:51:29 dealt with plantar fasciitis, had taken another six weeks off.
816. 00:51:32 I mean, it was like three months before I could really run again.
817. 00:51:36 And I had to like not worry about my time, not worry about the distance.
818. 00:51:40 I had to just enjoy getting outside and going for a run, which is very appropriate right
819. 00:51:44 now because the fact that we've been home for all this time, like people go a little stir
820. 00:51:48 crazy.
821. 00:51:49 I am in that camp as well.
822. 00:51:52 But one of the things that has helped keep me sane during this time has been getting outside.
823. 00:51:57 So I have been running or biking every single day during this since the quarantine started.
824. 00:52:04 I will usually run like five miles, which isn't, I mean, that's a pretty decent length,
825. 00:52:09 but it's not a half marathon.
826. 00:52:11 Like I was training for.
827. 00:52:13 You know, it was no big deal for me to go run 12, 13 miles on a Saturday.
828. 00:52:19 But so less distance, more frequently, not worried about the time, just enjoying getting
829. 00:52:24 out there.
830. 00:52:25 That is the mindset that we have to have.
831. 00:52:27 And I think it pertains to all the different areas of our lives, especially as it pertains
832. 00:52:32 to work.
833. 00:52:33 I think there is a tendency to focus on the outcomes and what you produce, especially
834. 00:52:38 for creatives.
835. 00:52:39 Like, what did I ship?
836. 00:52:41 And I was encouraged as I read this section about enough that we have at Blanc Media this
837. 00:52:47 whole concept of the sabbaticals where every eighth week the company shuts down and we
838. 00:52:53 don't do any work.
839. 00:52:55 And that has been really cool.
840. 00:52:57 And I'm recognizing as I read this book again that that is like a forced systemic enough
841. 00:53:05 perspective that could we work that extra week?
842. 00:53:10 Yes, we probably could.
843. 00:53:12 Could we get more stuff done?
844. 00:53:13 Could we ship another product sooner?
845. 00:53:14 Could we make more money?
846. 00:53:16 Probably.
847. 00:53:17 But that's not the lifestyle that we want to live.
848. 00:53:23 We want to have a calm work culture.
849. 00:53:27 And I really am appreciative of that.
850. 00:53:30 Interestingly, we just interviewed for Focus.
851. 00:53:33 This episode will be up, I believe, by the time this one goes up.
852. 00:53:36 So I'll put a link to it in the show notes.
853. 00:53:38 We interviewed Sean McCabe.
854. 00:53:41 He's in the middle of a year long sabbatical and happens to be the year that everybody
855. 00:53:48 is supposed to stay at home except he sold his house and doesn't have a home.
856. 00:53:53 A little bit interesting for him.
857. 00:53:55 He was supposed to travel the world.
858. 00:53:56 He was supposed to run a marathon.
859. 00:53:58 He's going to work.
860. 00:54:00 Yeah.
861. 00:54:01 Well, I won't do as good a job explaining it as he does.
862. 00:54:05 So just go listen to the episode if you're interested in that sort of thing.
863. 00:54:07 But he's kind of the champion, I think, of this whole sabbatical idea.
864. 00:54:10 I know that he was influential in Sean Blanc embracing it with Bloc Media.
865. 00:54:16 But I really think this is a really cool idea.
866. 00:54:18 And I would encourage everybody to think about how you can systemically create this in your
867. 00:54:23 own life, whether it's work personal, whatever.
868. 00:54:25 And you're specifically talking about a sabbatical of sorts.
869. 00:54:29 Well, the sabbatical, I think, is a cool idea because I recognize a sabbatical is tied
870. 00:54:34 to this idea of enough.
871. 00:54:37 They are basically the same thing.
872. 00:54:39 The sabbatical is saying we could be working right now, but we choose not to because we've
873. 00:54:44 got enough.
874. 00:54:45 Sure.
875. 00:54:46 You know, we can get enough done.
876. 00:54:47 We don't need to squeeze out one more thing because it's going to make us feel frantic
877. 00:54:53 and it's going to burn us out.
878. 00:54:55 Yadda yadda yadda.
879. 00:54:56 Sure.
880. 00:54:57 And I think you can apply that a lot of different ways.
881. 00:54:59 But the sabbatical is the example that came to mind for me as it pertains to the work
882. 00:55:03 side.
883. 00:55:04 Makes sense.
884. 00:55:06 The next one I've got written down here is interrelationships.
885. 00:55:10 And I say this because this is what I wanted to talk about because right now I feel like
886. 00:55:14 this is really hard.
887. 00:55:16 Hey, Wisconsin is probably not as bad as Minnesota, but right now we're still fairly
888. 00:55:22 locked down and it makes it difficult to connect with other people.
889. 00:55:28 It's actually starting to reach a point where a large part of the state is kind of just
890. 00:55:34 breaking the rules, like breaking all of the suggestions and recommendations and stuff
891. 00:55:41 because they're just tired and they're tired of being stuck at home on their own.
892. 00:55:47 I get it.
893. 00:55:48 I do.
894. 00:55:49 Like it's hard to stay where you're told to stay.
895. 00:55:55 But I think this is why because Ryan Holiday points out how relationships are super important
896. 00:56:02 and how building relationships and fostering those is one of the key components to a fulfilling
897. 00:56:12 life.
898. 00:56:13 So I think that given the state that we're in right now and his comments and you and I
899. 00:56:21 have talked about, if you don't know what your mission in life should be, make it a
900. 00:56:25 mission to serve other people.
901. 00:56:27 We've talked about this sort of thing frequently and in a lot of ways.
902. 00:56:31 And I think there is a lot of value to this and it's brought out here by Ryan Holiday in
903. 00:56:38 this concept of entering relationships, whether they're big or small or important or minor
904. 00:56:44 doesn't matter.
905. 00:56:46 But being willing to develop relationships with other people is super important.
906. 00:56:51 So I was grateful that he pointed it out as part of this.
907. 00:56:56 This is supposed to be my year of rest and relationships.
908. 00:57:02 So I have been struggling with this as well because yeah, things are opening up a little
909. 00:57:08 bit more here in Wisconsin.
910. 00:57:10 We were at the point about a month ago where people were frustrated and just breaking all
911. 00:57:13 of the rules.
912. 00:57:15 So we are not, you know, having people over and all that yet.
913. 00:57:20 But I will say that while we have been quarantined, we have been thinking because this was part
914. 00:57:26 of my yearly theme on other ways that we can build these.
915. 00:57:32 And this is something that I've been trying to do consistently.
916. 00:57:36 It's not something I do consistently enough, but there have been many times during this
917. 00:57:43 quarantine where I have like gone through my list of contacts and just picked somebody
918. 00:57:48 that I FaceTimed and talked to.
919. 00:57:52 And some of the people that I've talked to are people that I wouldn't have talked to.
920. 00:57:57 Otherwise, it's not just people who are local, replacing, you know, seeing people at church
921. 00:58:01 or anything like that.
922. 00:58:02 There has been some of that too, just checking in and seeing how people are doing.
923. 00:58:06 But I recognize that it took a global pandemic for me to reach out to people who I honestly
924. 00:58:13 have wanted to reach out to for a very long time.
925. 00:58:16 And why was it that way?
926. 00:58:20 Why was that the case?
927. 00:58:21 Why did I not even think about FaceTiming this person until now?
928. 00:58:29 Because every time that I've connected with somebody that way, it has felt really good.
929. 00:58:35 They have been very appreciative.
930. 00:58:38 And it's something that we don't have to wait until things go back to normal in order
931. 00:58:43 to do.
932. 00:58:44 That's kind of the thing I want to communicate to everybody else who's thinking about, "Well,
933. 00:58:48 I wish I could build my relationships, but I can't right now.
934. 00:58:52 You can.
935. 00:58:53 You just got to get a little creative with it."
936. 00:58:55 Yeah, for sure.
937. 00:58:56 You know, I'm not good at, especially given everything.
938. 00:59:00 I haven't been good about texting or FaceTiming with people at all because I'm in the weird
939. 00:59:05 spot where I am still seeing people and have been from day one.
940. 00:59:09 So this was a case from the very beginning is that we're sacrificing Joe so that everybody
941. 00:59:16 else can isolate.
942. 00:59:20 Right now I keep thinking I'm coming out of it and then we add something more and they're
943. 00:59:26 like, "Oh, let's do a big drive-in thing."
944. 00:59:29 And then we start bringing the Minnesota is now letting churches open back up to 25%.
945. 00:59:39 I still haven't quite been able to nail down my opinions on that, but as my job is for
946. 00:59:44 a church, I now have the honor and duty of running essentially three different events
947. 00:59:51 all at one time every Sunday, which takes a lot of work and stuff too.
948. 00:59:57 So my job continues to change on a week-to-week basis.
949. 01:00:01 When I think I'm coming up for air, I'm actually getting ready to be shoved back down under.
950. 01:00:07 It's just kind of how it goes.
951. 01:00:10 But it's a case where I am still seeing a lot of people and even now that churches are starting
952. 01:00:18 to open up, I'm seeing a lot more people.
953. 01:00:21 I do my best to keep my distance because I don't know where people have been.
954. 01:00:27 And again, my role is one where it's kind of vital to the church at the moment.
955. 01:00:34 So my health and safety is very important in that case.
956. 01:00:38 So I have to watch handshakes that people try to give and ignore them, which is counter
957. 01:00:45 to what I feel like I should be doing.
958. 01:00:47 All this to say, I totally get Ryan Holidays' drive towards entering relationships and building
959. 01:00:52 those relationships.
960. 01:00:53 I see a ton of value in that and it's one that I would highly recommend for other people.
961. 01:00:58 And it's just kind of slipped in here.
962. 01:01:00 Like a lot of these, it's just another small point that he's making in the broader scheme
963. 01:01:05 of what he's driving towards.
964. 01:01:07 Yep.
965. 01:01:08 So, which brings us to part three, which actually I feel like is the easiest one to get action
966. 01:01:14 items from.
967. 01:01:16 Which I don't know.
968. 01:01:17 I've got three of them so far.
969. 01:01:20 Yeah.
970. 01:01:21 So the third part here is body.
971. 01:01:26 Let's repeat the process here are the chapter titles for body.
972. 01:01:32 The domain of the body, again, starts off that way.
973. 01:01:35 Say no, take a walk, build a routine, get rid of your stuff.
974. 01:01:40 It does not say books, Mike.
975. 01:01:43 Seek solitude, be a human being, go to sleep, find a hobby, beware, escapism, act bravely
976. 01:01:53 onto the final act and onto the final act, I think is kind of just his wrap up for the
977. 01:01:57 whole book at that point.
978. 01:02:00 So there's three specifics here.
979. 01:02:03 I want to talk about a couple of these are pretty quick, I feel like, though I tend to
980. 01:02:10 say that and then they're not life.
981. 01:02:14 The first of which is take a walk.
982. 01:02:16 This is something I feel has been discussed and has come up in a lot of different scenarios.
983. 01:02:21 You hear it from a lot of biographers, people talking about the benefits of going for walks.
984. 01:02:29 The one that stands out in my mind right now is the Steve Jobs biography by Walter Isaacson
985. 01:02:34 where he discussed how Steve Jobs would, if you wanted to have a meeting with him, he
986. 01:02:39 loved to do walking meetings.
987. 01:02:40 It was like the thing that he did.
988. 01:02:42 So like that was one that's jumped out to me though that story is not in here, which
989. 01:02:47 there was no Apple reference in this book.
990. 01:02:49 Did you notice that?
991. 01:02:50 Like that?
992. 01:02:51 Did not.
993. 01:02:52 Shocked to me.
994. 01:02:53 That's pretty awesome to be honest.
995. 01:02:54 A book like this and Steve Jobs was not a part of it.
996. 01:02:58 Interesting.
997. 01:02:59 So real quickly on that topic, I think the reason that it wasn't in here is because Ryan
998. 01:03:05 Holiday is so researched.
999. 01:03:07 It would have been easy to just find stuff to back the points that he was making and
1000. 01:03:12 pull in a bunch of stuff from Apple, which it seems like that's what everybody else does
1001. 01:03:15 because maybe it's trendy.
1002. 01:03:17 But I also know Ryan Holiday, when he does his research, he does it paper pencil.
1003. 01:03:23 He does it on note cards and he has these boxes of note cards that he collects during
1004. 01:03:28 his research.
1005. 01:03:29 And I think like that gave him a larger data set to pull from and the stuff that he chose
1006. 01:03:35 is the right stuff to support his arguments.
1007. 01:03:38 It's very entertaining.
1008. 01:03:39 It's very engaging.
1009. 01:03:40 Didn't need an Apple reference to keep people hooked.
1010. 01:03:43 No.
1011. 01:03:44 I don't know this for certain, but I think at one point I ran across an article or a
1012. 01:03:49 comment of some sorts that mentioned that Ryan Holiday does use the Zettelkasten method,
1013. 01:03:54 the whole slip box concept.
1014. 01:03:56 It doesn't surprise me.
1015. 01:03:57 The original paper version of it.
1016. 01:03:59 Not the Rome research obsidian version that we've been like that's kind of taking over
1017. 01:04:03 the world right now, but the old school pen and paper version of that, which isn't
1018. 01:04:07 intriguing to me.
1019. 01:04:08 This might be okay.
1020. 01:04:12 This is the problem with these scenarios.
1021. 01:04:14 Now I have this thought of do I explore doing that as part of analog Joe?
1022. 01:04:19 Should I live stream the building on it?
1023. 01:04:21 This is the way my brain works.
1024. 01:04:22 That would be amazing.
1025. 01:04:23 Totally.
1026. 01:04:24 Sure it would, but it sounds incredibly complicated in my brain.
1027. 01:04:27 Before you get yourself in too much trouble committing to things.
1028. 01:04:30 Yeah, thanks Mike.
1029. 01:04:31 Appreciate that.
1030. 01:04:32 Dig me out of this hole that I just dug into.
1031. 01:04:35 Yeah.
1032. 01:04:36 Let's talk about the take a walk section here.
1033. 01:04:38 Yep, that's probably good.
1034. 01:04:40 I agree this is something that we've heard over and over again.
1035. 01:04:45 This is when I read this section, this is kind of the incentive behind my get outside
1036. 01:04:52 bike or run every day habit.
1037. 01:04:57 I initially started doing that because the weather was starting to change.
1038. 01:05:03 I just wanted to be outside, but I recognized the first couple of times that I did it.
1039. 01:05:07 It had a significant positive impact on my emotional state by the time I got back.
1040. 01:05:16 So I would be home and more often than I'd care to admit, I find myself just like scrolling
1041. 01:05:23 through the news, getting upset of what I'm seeing and then eventually I can't take it
1042. 01:05:29 anymore.
1043. 01:05:30 I'm like, I got to go for a run.
1044. 01:05:31 I got to get outside.
1045. 01:05:32 I got to work out yesterday was a three workout day for me.
1046. 01:05:37 I ran, I biked and I lifted it.
1047. 01:05:43 But whenever I did it by the time I got back, it was, I felt much more calm.
1048. 01:05:49 Ryan Holiday would use the word stillness.
1049. 01:05:51 I can totally relate to that.
1050. 01:05:53 This is in the body section, but this definitely affects the others as well.
1051. 01:06:01 I'm thinking of the Spaceship U video that CGP Grey put together.
1052. 01:06:06 Have you seen that video?
1053. 01:06:08 Put lockdown productivity?
1054. 01:06:09 I have not.
1055. 01:06:10 I've seen it circulated, but I haven't actually sat down and watched it.
1056. 01:06:13 Maybe I should do that when we get done here.
1057. 01:06:16 Phenomenal video, I think it's like 12 minutes long.
1058. 01:06:18 He uses the analogy of quarantine as being in your own spaceship.
1059. 01:06:23 And so kind of like Wally, where they send everybody to space, like we're going to clean
1060. 01:06:27 up the mess.
1061. 01:06:28 You guys come back a little bit when things have calmed down.
1062. 01:06:31 At the beginning, he talks about how your mission is to return better than you were before.
1063. 01:06:37 And he uses this analogy of like, you're in this little spaceship.
1064. 01:06:41 You need to set up these different spaces or these zones for the different areas that
1065. 01:06:46 you have to maintain.
1066. 01:06:47 He talks about the central core being this thing that you have to keep spinning.
1067. 01:06:51 And there's two sides to that.
1068. 01:06:52 There is the mental side and then there is the physical side.
1069. 01:06:56 And he makes the point in that video that the place to start is with the physical side.
1070. 01:07:00 Just get moving.
1071. 01:07:02 Just start exercising.
1072. 01:07:04 Do something and then that will get things moving and then your spaceship can maintain
1073. 01:07:08 itself assuming that you've set everything else up the way that it should be.
1074. 01:07:12 And I would differ a little bit, I think, in terms of some of the specifics of what he
1075. 01:07:17 shares in there.
1076. 01:07:19 But I really do think that's a great analogy.
1077. 01:07:22 It's really well animated.
1078. 01:07:23 It's a very well done video and 100% agree with that point about the physical being the
1079. 01:07:27 place to start.
1080. 01:07:29 It's the easy, easy thing.
1081. 01:07:31 It's easy to just get outside and go for a walk.
1082. 01:07:34 And then once you do that, you've got a little bit more margin, mental clarity, emotional
1083. 01:07:38 stability.
1084. 01:07:39 Like you come back and you can try to do the other stuff.
1085. 01:07:42 So it's no secret that my family and I love to go hiking.
1086. 01:07:48 And there's another one that we're going to talk about here in a bit is seeking solitude.
1087. 01:07:53 This does not qualify as that because three kids, period.
1088. 01:08:00 But what it does qualify as is taking a walk and taking a walk through the woods specifically.
1089. 01:08:06 We have a tendency to hunt mushrooms as part of that.
1090. 01:08:09 We love our mushrooms.
1091. 01:08:11 Had very little success hunting Morells this year in Minnesota, but found tons of them
1092. 01:08:17 in Iowa at one point.
1093. 01:08:19 And right now we're in the middle of like getting into summer mushrooms and stuff.
1094. 01:08:23 So we're out at least once every week, sometimes more than that out taking walks.
1095. 01:08:28 What I have found is that if I can, I try to get those times scheduled for either early
1096. 01:08:35 afternoon or in the morning.
1097. 01:08:37 Because what happens is when I get back from those, I'm ready to go to work and I want
1098. 01:08:43 to go write some things down and I want to go kick some things out.
1099. 01:08:46 Like that's what happens whenever I'm done with those times.
1100. 01:08:49 And if I wait until two o'clock, three o'clock to go hiking, by the time we're out the door
1101. 01:08:54 or go hiking and get back, it's like five o'clock.
1102. 01:08:57 And at that point, it's clean everything up, get dinner on the table, kids to bed and like
1103. 01:09:01 the whole evening is gone at that point.
1104. 01:09:02 So I'm not really going to get any work done when I get back from that.
1105. 01:09:06 So mornings, I guess are better because I just, I can go, go, go, go, go, whenever I'm
1106. 01:09:11 done with that, even though I just hiked six miles.
1107. 01:09:14 That's where I'm sitting.
1108. 01:09:17 There's all kinds of science and stuff behind all the physical and the body side of that.
1109. 01:09:22 Ryan Holiday talks a lot about the mental state of that and the benefits of your mind
1110. 01:09:29 and the way that things work as a result of exercising your body in that way.
1111. 01:09:34 All this to say, I'm going to continue hiking.
1112. 01:09:38 But the one thing that I'm debating because what that doesn't solve is there's one aspect
1113. 01:09:44 that he mentions in that being able to do things on your own and trying to like clear
1114. 01:09:51 your mind of things instead of being willing to just let your mind run and race wherever
1115. 01:09:57 it wants to go, which is what I do when we go hiking.
1116. 01:09:59 I can't really just clear my mind and not think about things and just enjoy the moment
1117. 01:10:04 whenever I'm out there because three kids.
1118. 01:10:07 So I'm constantly keeping an eye on them.
1119. 01:10:10 Did they just fall into a creek?
1120. 01:10:11 I don't know where one of them in particular.
1121. 01:10:14 I never know where she is.
1122. 01:10:16 Here we go.
1123. 01:10:17 So I want to start trying to find a way to take walks, maybe not daily, but a couple
1124. 01:10:23 times a week to just take 30 minutes, go outside, do a quick walk, even just around
1125. 01:10:28 the neighborhood just on my own.
1126. 01:10:29 That's the thing I want to try to do.
1127. 01:10:31 So I have that down as an action item because I feel like although I do get the exercise
1128. 01:10:36 side of it, I don't feel like I get the mental clarity that can come from it as well.
1129. 01:10:41 Sure.
1130. 01:10:42 Yeah.
1131. 01:10:43 When you add kids to anything, it changes the dynamic for sure.
1132. 01:10:47 Totally, totally does.
1133. 01:10:50 Next one here I want to talk about is get rid of your stuff.
1134. 01:10:55 And he primarily points out that stuff tends to require your attention and it requires
1135. 01:11:02 maintenance, it requires upkeep.
1136. 01:11:04 If it breaks, you must fix it.
1137. 01:11:07 The bigger the house you have, the more things there are to break and maintain.
1138. 01:11:12 So smaller is better in a lot of cases.
1139. 01:11:17 That's his point here.
1140. 01:11:19 I can honestly say that my wife and I have been very deliberate in getting rid of as
1141. 01:11:24 many things as we can.
1142. 01:11:25 We have like these two or three days a year where it seems like, and it's not scheduled,
1143. 01:11:29 it's not planned.
1144. 01:11:30 It's just like, this is really bothering me tomorrow.
1145. 01:11:33 I'm cleaning out this entire area and I'm donating it all.
1146. 01:11:38 Those times happen and they do happen seemingly regularly.
1147. 01:11:44 But it's a thing that I feel like is important to call out because in the world we live in,
1148. 01:11:50 it's very easy to land in the camp of collecting things and having a lot of stuff.
1149. 01:11:57 And that's not good for your mental state or your physical state or your pocketbook,
1150. 01:12:01 for that matter.
1151. 01:12:02 That makes a point that more stuff equals less freedom.
1152. 01:12:07 My wife probably would be more like you where she wants to get rid of things.
1153. 01:12:13 I am not a hoarder, but I'm just indifferent.
1154. 01:12:18 So I'm not going to take action on stuff until one day she does it.
1155. 01:12:22 And then I'm like, hey, where'd that go?
1156. 01:12:23 And she's like, oh, I gave it away.
1157. 01:12:25 Whoops, sorry.
1158. 01:12:26 Hope you don't want that anymore.
1159. 01:12:28 That does happen.
1160. 01:12:30 That's hilarious.
1161. 01:12:33 But I do think there's some truth to that.
1162. 01:12:36 And this is kind of an interesting time to be talking about this.
1163. 01:12:38 I remember when the quarantine started, I saw some internet cartoon of two people and
1164. 01:12:49 one of them was saying to the other one, like, don't look at me.
1165. 01:12:54 You're the one who got rid of everything that didn't spark joy.
1166. 01:12:58 So you go have fun with your five folded t-shirts or whatever.
1167. 01:13:04 Point being that now you are stuck at home and maybe you shouldn't have gotten rid of
1168. 01:13:10 everything because really what you were clinging to was some other semblance of your day to
1169. 01:13:15 day that you don't have access to anymore.
1170. 01:13:19 I think there's an element of truth to that.
1171. 01:13:21 So it isn't just the things that you can get attached to, it can be specifics in your
1172. 01:13:29 own way of life.
1173. 01:13:31 But I do think that the less complicated your life is, then the more stillness you have,
1174. 01:13:40 and like he says, the more freedom you have, the more joy you have because you're not constantly
1175. 01:13:45 worried about maintaining the things.
1176. 01:13:47 Like if you have a grill, like, yeah, it's nice to cook outside, but it requires you
1177. 01:13:51 cleaning it regularly in order to keep it from rusting and falling apart.
1178. 01:13:55 And you got to refill the bottle on occasion.
1179. 01:13:58 If you have more than two vehicles and there's only two of you driving in the house, that
1180. 01:14:02 means you've got extra maintenance for the oil changes and tires and, you know, coolant
1181. 01:14:07 levels and blah, blah, blah, blah.
1182. 01:14:09 Exactly.
1183. 01:14:10 Like there's a lot more to keep an eye on.
1184. 01:14:11 The bigger your house is, the more carpet that needs swept regularly.
1185. 01:14:14 Like there's a lot that can come with that.
1186. 01:14:19 You know, I'm referring to like motors and things, but people don't always realize like
1187. 01:14:22 tools need maintain too sometimes.
1188. 01:14:24 So, you know, I've got a fair number of power tools, but they require cleaning on a fairly
1189. 01:14:29 decent basis.
1190. 01:14:31 Otherwise they'll clog up and the motors will burn up.
1191. 01:14:33 We won't talk about how I know that, but that's a thing that happens.
1192. 01:14:38 Yeah.
1193. 01:14:39 Pets would be another example.
1194. 01:14:40 I mean, our previous dog passed away last summer and we knew we wanted to get another
1195. 01:14:47 dog, but we also knew at the time that life was complicated and we didn't want to deal
1196. 01:14:52 with that yet.
1197. 01:14:53 So we waited until I think it was December we got got our golden doodle.
1198. 01:15:00 But it was the right thing at the right time and it's not stressful.
1199. 01:15:03 Like she brings joy to our house.
1200. 01:15:05 But if we had gotten her earlier and we were traveling and we had to figure out where we're
1201. 01:15:11 going to have her stay when we get on an airplane, all that kind of stuff, like that
1202. 01:15:15 can weigh on you and that can totally change the perspective of the thing.
1203. 01:15:18 And instead of now bringing joy, it's bringing stress.
1204. 01:15:21 And there's so many things that you can, that can do that, that it's worth thinking
1205. 01:15:26 these through.
1206. 01:15:27 We're not, you know, because I feel stressed that we, that you have a dog that's not, you
1207. 01:15:31 know, I'm just going to give away the dog, especially can't do that with kids, like,
1208. 01:15:35 you got to make this work now.
1209. 01:15:36 We can only handle two kids.
1210. 01:15:38 So that third one, I love you, but, you know, but I think it's worth thinking about not
1211. 01:15:48 just is this the right thing, but is this the right time?
1212. 01:15:52 There isn't a simple formula for this, but always there on the side of margin, I guess
1213. 01:16:00 is what I'm trying to say.
1214. 01:16:02 So there's one last section here I want to go through and that is seek solitude.
1215. 01:16:06 And I'm curious, Mike, what your thoughts are on this given we both live in towns, in
1216. 01:16:12 neighborhoods, we're getting away from all of the motor noises and just the buzz of homes.
1217. 01:16:23 Do you see value in seeking solitude?
1218. 01:16:26 Is that a trick question?
1219. 01:16:31 I'm asking the person who does like these regular personal retreats.
1220. 01:16:34 So yeah, exactly.
1221. 01:16:38 So yeah, I, in this, this section, they talk about the twice per year Bill Gates taking
1222. 01:16:43 a think week at a cabin in the woods.
1223. 01:16:46 They say, Ryan says on page two, 18, it's hard to make that time.
1224. 01:16:49 It's hard and expensive to get away.
1225. 01:16:50 We have responsibilities, but they will be better for our temporary disappearance.
1226. 01:16:54 We will carry back with us to stillness from our solitude in the form of patients understanding
1227. 01:16:57 gratitude and insight.
1228. 01:16:59 This is 100% my experience with these personal retreats.
1229. 01:17:03 So we believe my family, the way we operate that I am the one who should be setting the
1230. 01:17:14 direction for the family, not just for myself work wise, but not saying my wife's not an
1231. 01:17:21 equal partner.
1232. 01:17:23 But we believe that that's my responsibility.
1233. 01:17:29 I've got to go spend the time, get the plan, and then come back and we get an agreement
1234. 01:17:35 on the specifics of it.
1235. 01:17:37 It'll change, you know, because I'll not see stuff that my wife will see.
1236. 01:17:42 But ultimately I can't abdicate that responsibility and be like, you just figure it out.
1237. 01:17:46 I'm going to work.
1238. 01:17:47 I'm going to bring home the bacon and you figure everything else out.
1239. 01:17:51 So I take this responsibility seriously.
1240. 01:17:53 I don't want to just dictate her, Mike, be like, this is what we are going to do.
1241. 01:17:57 I really want to make sure that I get this right.
1242. 01:17:59 So the personal retreat is the thing that allows me to do that.
1243. 01:18:02 And my wife would be the first to say that this is absolutely a very valuable routine
1244. 01:18:09 that we have.
1245. 01:18:10 It makes everything a lot easier when I take the time to try to figure this out and then
1246. 01:18:17 come back and communicate it to her.
1247. 01:18:20 And again, I'm not just saying like Moses coming down from the mount with the stone tablets.
1248. 01:18:24 This is what we are doing.
1249. 01:18:26 Like they are changing and evolving as we work through some things.
1250. 01:18:32 But I am the one who needs to initiate that.
1251. 01:18:38 If I don't initiate it, then we just kind of get stuck in the day to day.
1252. 01:18:42 That's when we end up not being in alignment.
1253. 01:18:44 That's when we end up pulling in opposite directions and things are way harder than they
1254. 01:18:48 have to be.
1255. 01:18:49 So yes, this is something that I do.
1256. 01:18:51 Yes, it is absolutely something.
1257. 01:18:53 I would argue that everybody should do.
1258. 01:18:55 He makes the case in that quote that even though it may be expensive, I'm pretty privileged
1259. 01:19:00 because my parents have a place up in Door County.
1260. 01:19:03 It's up on a hill when you're up there.
1261. 01:19:05 It doesn't feel like there's anybody near you.
1262. 01:19:08 It does feel like you are alone.
1263. 01:19:10 It's got a view down the hill.
1264. 01:19:12 It's not actually on the water, but you can see the water.
1265. 01:19:15 Trees all over the place.
1266. 01:19:16 It feels different.
1267. 01:19:17 It's chill.
1268. 01:19:18 There's just something about being up there that produces the stillness that he's talking
1269. 01:19:24 about in this whole book.
1270. 01:19:26 That's what I do.
1271. 01:19:27 But even if I had to go rent an Airbnb, this is something that I would do.
1272. 01:19:32 I do actually try to...
1273. 01:19:36 Maybe this isn't solitude.
1274. 01:19:37 Maybe this is the forest bathing, whatever.
1275. 01:19:40 We live in a suburb, but it's close enough to nature that when I go for a run, when I
1276. 01:19:46 go for a bike ride, I can get...
1277. 01:19:48 Out into a place where I'm just surrounded by nature.
1278. 01:19:55 That has a positive effect as well.
1279. 01:19:57 It's not the solitude where I'm getting the epiphanies because I'm spending a week out
1280. 01:20:02 there, but even just getting out there for a half an hour, that helps.
1281. 01:20:07 Yeah, I don't know that I would do...
1282. 01:20:09 I know you do these overnight deals.
1283. 01:20:12 I don't know that that's something I would put into this.
1284. 01:20:15 I'm sure there's some value in that.
1285. 01:20:16 But personally, I think the area that I need to focus on, because taking walks and doing
1286. 01:20:23 the hikes and such, the whole forest bathing concept we haven't discussed, that comes along
1287. 01:20:31 for the ride with that.
1288. 01:20:33 But seeking solitude, getting outdoors and being on my own or just a place on my own,
1289. 01:20:39 doesn't matter.
1290. 01:20:40 That is something I need to do.
1291. 01:20:42 I don't want to say every week, but something I should do regularly.
1292. 01:20:47 Because I haven't done that a long time.
1293. 01:20:48 Now, I say that knowing that we have a vacation planned coming up here in a couple weeks,
1294. 01:20:55 we'll see how lockdowns and such and what we choose to do at that time if we actually
1295. 01:21:00 follow through on things.
1296. 01:21:02 But that is the goal.
1297. 01:21:04 The location of that would put me in mountains with very little cell reception, which could
1298. 01:21:10 be amazing.
1299. 01:21:13 I don't think though that what he's talking about with solitude is necessarily the same
1300. 01:21:19 as a vacation.
1301. 01:21:20 He makes the point with Bill Gates takes his think week that that's actually really hard
1302. 01:21:26 work.
1303. 01:21:27 So most people think of vacation and they think of kicking their feet up, being able to relax.
1304. 01:21:32 The thing that I was getting to on that is because yes, we're going on vacation, but
1305. 01:21:36 it'll be up in mountains and in a secluded place, which would then give me the opportunity
1306. 01:21:40 to take one or two days or times to go out on my own and do solitude practice of sorts
1307. 01:21:50 at those times.
1308. 01:21:51 I don't think of the entire vacation as that.
1309. 01:21:54 I think there are definitely some elements of some other pieces here that will come into
1310. 01:21:59 it.
1311. 01:22:00 I want at least one piece of that to have an aspect of solitude that comes with it.
1312. 01:22:06 But I do need to figure that out locally at home too though.
1313. 01:22:09 I need to get that dialed in.
1314. 01:22:12 I think you could get a taste of solitude during your vacation, but unless you're camping by
1315. 01:22:17 yourself in the mountains for a day or two, I don't think you can really achieve what
1316. 01:22:21 he's talking about.
1317. 01:22:22 Probably not.
1318. 01:22:23 And I don't think it needs to be a week like Bill Gates does, but I do think that the
1319. 01:22:28 longer you give yourself to just think about things, that whole idea of thinking time,
1320. 01:22:34 that you will get to new levels in terms of solitude.
1321. 01:22:39 Yes, agreed.
1322. 01:22:41 100%.
1323. 01:22:42 What else do you want to say about this book, Mike?
1324. 01:22:45 Actually, there's one more thing on the Beware Escapism.
1325. 01:22:49 Page 246 says, "To build a life you don't need an escape from."
1326. 01:22:55 I think that's a really powerful statement.
1327. 01:22:58 I think it's something that isn't necessarily an action item for me, but it's something
1328. 01:23:03 I've been thinking about.
1329. 01:23:04 He shares a lot of stories in here about people and their daily routines, famous people, and
1330. 01:23:09 how they would go through these routines day in, day out, every day for years.
1331. 01:23:15 Which that's a whole section in here, by the way, about routines, and that's actually
1332. 01:23:18 an action item for me, is to make a routine out of everything that I can.
1333. 01:23:21 But I recognize in a cool position where I could do that sort of thing.
1334. 01:23:30 I think that's awesome.
1335. 01:23:32 I think that it's something people should strive for.
1336. 01:23:36 If you can't control every aspect of your life right now, then don't worry about that,
1337. 01:23:41 but control what you can control.
1338. 01:23:43 Think about how to not just live for the next vacation, but to create those routines throughout
1339. 01:23:51 your day to day, where if you were to describe your perfect day, what does that look like?
1340. 01:24:00 And then think about how could you pull aspects of that off?
1341. 01:24:05 As I'm thinking through this, I'm like, "You know what?
1342. 01:24:07 I've got a pretty sweet opportunity here to do that."
1343. 01:24:11 Nice.
1344. 01:24:12 Well, I think we should step into action items here, because I feel like there are a few,
1345. 01:24:17 at least that I have.
1346. 01:24:18 I've got five written down, which I don't know what the record is for the most action items
1347. 01:24:24 I've had for a show, or for a specific book.
1348. 01:24:28 I'd be curious to know that one as well.
1349. 01:24:29 I have all these questions about myself and about what all is going on.
1350. 01:24:36 But here are the five I have.
1351. 01:24:40 One is I want to limit the inputs that I'm taking in.
1352. 01:24:44 That one really jumped out at me as something that I don't do well with, because I have
1353. 01:24:48 a tendency to just want to absorb anything and everything.
1354. 01:24:52 It's okay to turn the stuff off.
1355. 01:24:55 We've talked about the digital issues with the addictions and such digital minimalism,
1356. 01:25:01 if I can get the word out.
1357. 01:25:04 I need to come back to that.
1358. 01:25:06 It's forever a cycle of you do really well, and then you slowly add things back in, and
1359. 01:25:10 then you have a problem again.
1360. 01:25:12 That's one.
1361. 01:25:13 I mentioned stepping back into journaling.
1362. 01:25:16 It's number two, stepping back into meditation, which would be number three.
1363. 01:25:21 The solitude piece that I need to work out as number four, and then trying to take regular
1364. 01:25:26 walks by myself.
1365. 01:25:28 That's an indicator that I need to add to that list.
1366. 01:25:34 By myself, writing right now.
1367. 01:25:37 There you go.
1368. 01:25:38 That's what I have.
1369. 01:25:39 Those are my five.
1370. 01:25:40 All right.
1371. 01:25:41 I do not have five, but I do have four, which are like you to limit my inputs.
1372. 01:25:48 That I've done a pretty decent job of already, but I think it's something worth considering
1373. 01:25:54 again as we transition back to a normal life post quarantine to not let things just creep
1374. 01:26:05 back to where they were and to maintain the margin that we've got.
1375. 01:26:10 I want to be in the moment, and this is something I need to wrestle through specifically what
1376. 01:26:15 this looks like, because the struggle I have is my kids are growing up, and it seems like
1377. 01:26:25 every single day they are bigger.
1378. 01:26:28 I want to preserve the memories, but I also want to enjoy the moments that we are making
1379. 01:26:34 together.
1380. 01:26:36 Specifically, where's the line between take out the phone and take a picture and just
1381. 01:26:44 be here and enjoy it?
1382. 01:26:47 I don't know exactly where that is yet.
1383. 01:26:50 I've got one to try journaling using pen and paper inside my bullet journal, which we talked
1384. 01:26:57 about, and then to make a routine out of everything that I can.
1385. 01:27:03 This is inspired by my time blocking practice and recognizing the patterns for specific
1386. 01:27:09 days and thinking about how I can tweak those a little bit to produce my ideal day.
1387. 01:27:22 Instead of, at the end of the day, as I'm planning the next day, thinking about what
1388. 01:27:26 are the things that I need to do and the blocks that are going to happen, how can I
1389. 01:27:30 standardize this stuff in a way that's awesome?
1390. 01:27:33 Sounds like a tall task.
1391. 01:27:35 It does.
1392. 01:27:36 Did you expect anything less from me?
1393. 01:27:39 A tall task that's hard to hold you to.
1394. 01:27:42 Sounds about right.
1395. 01:27:45 That's how we do things.
1396. 01:27:47 Style and rating, I suppose this is my choice, so I get the honors of going first here.
1397. 01:27:51 Ryan Holiday is very easy to read.
1398. 01:27:53 He's very good at putting a book together and putting together his thoughts and telling
1399. 01:27:57 stories that I don't know that there were many stories in this, and there's one and every
1400. 01:28:02 single one of those chapters, multiple in those chapters in a lot of cases.
1401. 01:28:06 Most of those I feel like were brand new to me, which is another testament to him.
1402. 01:28:12 There are definitely some, like you know the story behind it, but the detail that he brought
1403. 01:28:16 out into it and the specific points and the facts that he brought out in it were definitely
1404. 01:28:20 new.
1405. 01:28:22 I kudos to Mr. Holiday on that one.
1406. 01:28:25 That was a job well done.
1407. 01:28:28 As far as content goes, there is the whole stoicism undertone that follows the whole thing.
1408. 01:28:33 It's not even an undertone.
1409. 01:28:34 It's just right out in front in a lot of cases.
1410. 01:28:38 I can see how so much of this is core to stoicism.
1411. 01:28:44 I'm not going to say I'm a stoic or want to become a stoic.
1412. 01:28:48 Ryan Holiday runs a site daily stoic, and that is not something I find myself wanting
1413. 01:28:55 to gravitate towards, but there are a lot of aspects of it as are brought out in this
1414. 01:29:01 particular book that I definitely resonate with.
1415. 01:29:05 Thus, the large number of action items that I get out of this.
1416. 01:29:08 To me, this is an easy five-star book.
1417. 01:29:11 It's pretty simple for me to put it up there.
1418. 01:29:14 There's so much of this that is super valuable, no matter where you're at in whatever season
1419. 01:29:21 you're at, even if you just need the motivation.
1420. 01:29:22 If you're a full-blown stoic professional, this is still going to be one that you should
1421. 01:29:29 go through just for the motivation.
1422. 01:29:31 But if you're completely new to self-management and such, this is definitely one that you
1423. 01:29:39 need to pick up and go through.
1424. 01:29:41 This is an easy one to recommend.
1425. 01:29:43 You need this, especially in today's world with everything that's going on.
1426. 01:29:46 This is something you need to read.
1427. 01:29:48 I agree with you.
1428. 01:29:49 This is a great book.
1429. 01:29:51 It's easy to recommend.
1430. 01:29:53 Ryan Holiday's style I've always liked, but this book seems to take it to another level
1431. 01:30:00 in terms of how concise things are and how clear things are.
1432. 01:30:06 One of the things that he does really, really well is he varies the sentence structure and
1433. 01:30:15 length, which makes it much more interesting to read.
1434. 01:30:23 Not quite sure how to explain that.
1435. 01:30:26 This is something that I struggle with in my writing.
1436. 01:30:30 You form your complete sentence and then you form another complete sentence.
1437. 01:30:33 If they all are basically the same length, they all start to sound the same.
1438. 01:30:39 What that does is it makes the words that you are saying less impactful.
1439. 01:30:45 Ryan Holiday is the master at varying this stuff, and it makes the words that he writes
1440. 01:30:51 very impactful.
1441. 01:30:54 Even if you don't necessarily agree with everything that he says in here, it is very easy and
1442. 01:31:00 very entertaining, very educational to read.
1443. 01:31:03 I also think he is one of the best storytellers that I have ever read.
1444. 01:31:08 His stories are a little bit different because he doesn't tell, most of the time when we
1445. 01:31:15 think of good storytellers, we think of the emotions that they evoke and building up to
1446. 01:31:20 these climactic moments.
1447. 01:31:23 He's very factual, gets to the point very quickly, and then it's on to the next thing.
1448. 01:31:29 The effect that that has on you is it builds trust, I feel like, as a reader.
1449. 01:31:36 You feel like you can trust him.
1450. 01:31:38 He is very learned and he has really studied this stuff and he knows what he's talking
1451. 01:31:42 about.
1452. 01:31:44 I tend to question a lot of people when I read their books.
1453. 01:31:48 I didn't find myself doing that a whole lot with Ryan Holiday.
1454. 01:31:52 A lot of that is because it's not the stories that he tells anyways.
1455. 01:31:57 They're not his opinions.
1456. 01:32:00 They are research.
1457. 01:32:01 We mentioned this at the beginning, when he talks about the different religions, when
1458. 01:32:05 he talks about Christianity, he's referencing not his interpretation of a text, but what
1459. 01:32:11 the text actually says, looking at the Greek Hebrew words and what they mean, and then comparing
1460. 01:32:16 that side by side with something else from another arena and providing more context.
1461. 01:32:22 It's really, really easy to read.
1462. 01:32:26 I think there's not a whole lot you can nitpick in this book.
1463. 01:32:31 I guess you could make the argument that if one of these sections really struck you,
1464. 01:32:37 that they are shallow.
1465. 01:32:39 The journaling section, for example, is a couple of pages.
1466. 01:32:41 We spent a lot of time talking about it far longer than Ryan spent writing about it.
1467. 01:32:47 I think there is a possibility that you feel yourself wanting more in a specific section,
1468. 01:32:52 but I feel it's really well laid out.
1469. 01:32:54 I feel like it flows really well.
1470. 01:32:56 I feel like all this stuff ties together really well.
1471. 01:32:59 I don't feel like any of these chapters were not needed.
1472. 01:33:04 I don't know.
1473. 01:33:05 I just think it's really, really well done.
1474. 01:33:07 I agree that it is a five-star book.
1475. 01:33:10 I've read this previously as a gap book, so reading it again, I lost a little bit of the
1476. 01:33:19 impact I think that it had on me when I first read it.
1477. 01:33:22 I didn't get done thinking like, "Oh my gosh, this changed my life."
1478. 01:33:26 But it's really, really good.
1479. 01:33:30 I do think that it's easy to glean action items out of this to it.
1480. 01:33:33 I've got four.
1481. 01:33:34 You've got five.
1482. 01:33:36 It's not something that you have to take in the totality of it.
1483. 01:33:40 There are, because the chapters are formed the way that they are, little things that
1484. 01:33:45 can jump out at you and are easier to implement and can have a positive impact on your real
1485. 01:33:53 life.
1486. 01:33:54 I can't wait for the next Ryan Holiday book.
1487. 01:33:56 This is a good one.
1488. 01:33:57 Yeah, somebody in the chat mentioned we should do ego as the enemy, just because we like
1489. 01:34:02 his other two books, so why not?
1490. 01:34:05 I'm not going to pick it right now because we just did this one.
1491. 01:34:09 Yeah.
1492. 01:34:10 No, this is one where it may not be crazy groundbreaking when you read it.
1493. 01:34:18 You might have some action items out of it, but I feel like it's one of those that you
1494. 01:34:21 will continually come back to.
1495. 01:34:23 When we read How to Read a Book by Mortimer Adler, it was one of those things that when
1496. 01:34:27 we read it, we weren't super thrilled with it.
1497. 01:34:30 I still think through that thing and reference it.
1498. 01:34:32 Every time I pick up a new book, I'm considering how I'm reading it and what I need to review
1499. 01:34:36 before I start reading it.
1500. 01:34:38 It wasn't one that struck me at the time, but it still hits me every time I pick up a book.
1501. 01:34:43 I feel like this is going to be the same way.
1502. 01:34:46 It seems to have that sense.
1503. 01:34:50 There you have it.
1504. 01:34:52 We can put that one on the shelf.
1505. 01:34:54 What's next, Mike?
1506. 01:34:56 Next is Triggers by Marshall Goldsmith.
1507. 01:34:59 So returning to the topic of habits and routines.
1508. 01:35:05 This is one that I had heard discussed on Cortex a while back immediately bought and then
1509. 01:35:11 haven't gotten to it yet.
1510. 01:35:12 So I'm going to bring you along for the ride.
1511. 01:35:15 It works.
1512. 01:35:16 I'm game.
1513. 01:35:18 Following that one, I suppose I picked a book for this one, is Reclaiming Conversation by
1514. 01:35:24 Sherry Turkle.
1515. 01:35:27 This has to do with getting back to how do you hold a conversation in the world of digital
1516. 01:35:33 ness?
1517. 01:35:35 So I think that'll be interesting considering this whole show is a conversation.
1518. 01:35:39 So we'll see how that one goes.
1519. 01:35:41 We'll have a conversation about conversations.
1520. 01:35:42 I do not have a gap book this time around, Mike, but I'm guessing everybody and their
1521. 01:35:48 brothers dog knew that was coming.
1522. 01:35:51 I hesitantly have a gap book.
1523. 01:35:54 Not sure if I'm going to get to it.
1524. 01:35:55 I'm still trying to get through how to take smart notes and rethinking how I'm using Rome
1525. 01:36:01 with that.
1526. 01:36:02 So I'm going through it a little bit slower than last time.
1527. 01:36:05 But I also just got Michael Hyatt's new book, No Fail Communication.
1528. 01:36:10 It's on my coffee table head turn book.
1529. 01:36:12 See you with the title list.
1530. 01:36:14 These books I really like.
1531. 01:36:16 Another one is like No Fail meetings.
1532. 01:36:18 They're very short.
1533. 01:36:19 They're smaller.
1534. 01:36:21 They're an easy read, probably a couple of hours to get through the whole thing.
1535. 01:36:26 The plan is to get through that one for next time, but we will see.
1536. 01:36:30 All right.
1537. 01:36:33 Well, you've heard me mention this a couple times, but we do have a live chat going for
1538. 01:36:37 members.
1539. 01:36:39 There is a paid membership.
1540. 01:36:40 It's $5 a month.
1541. 01:36:41 You get a cool, awesome bookworm background, but the big part is you get access to the live
1542. 01:36:46 recordings.
1543. 01:36:47 You can join us as we're doing this.
1544. 01:36:50 And my goal is to get this to the point where we're doing video live.
1545. 01:36:54 So I'm still working through some of that.
1546. 01:36:56 My goal is I think next time we're going to get that live for members, if you want to
1547. 01:37:01 become a member, I've had a couple of people pointing out that this was hard to find, just
1548. 01:37:07 go to bookworm.fm and go to the menu.
1549. 01:37:09 It's on the top now, just membership.
1550. 01:37:12 Same thing if you're on the club, club.bookworm.fm.
1551. 01:37:14 You can join the club.
1552. 01:37:15 That's where we have the live chat and the live listening part of it.
1553. 01:37:21 It's up in the menu for that as well.
1554. 01:37:23 So I tried to make that easier to find.
1555. 01:37:26 So all that to say, you should become a member.
1556. 01:37:29 You can join us when we're doing these recordings.
1557. 01:37:31 A lot of times what happens is Mike gets a talking and then I type into the chat and
1558. 01:37:35 then when we're all done, Mike goes back and reads it all and says, you know, this is
1559. 01:37:38 what he noticed because Joe's brain can handle typing and talking at the same time, but Mike
1560. 01:37:43 doesn't seem to be able to do that.
1561. 01:37:45 Not so much.
1562. 01:37:46 Which is very entertaining for me.
1563. 01:37:48 But all that to say, you should become a member and you can do that at bookworm.fm/membership
1564. 01:37:53 or just click the link in the menu.
1565. 01:37:54 Or if you listen to an overcast, tap the little icon in the bottom, that'll take you to that
1566. 01:38:00 page too.
1567. 01:38:01 Cool.
1568. 01:38:02 Thanks everybody for listening.
1569. 01:38:04 If you're reading along with us, pick up Triggers by Marshall Goldsmith and we'll talk
1570. 01:38:09 to you in a couple of weeks.